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Will this bulk me up? please help me out

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by MikeAndLiz, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    That depends on what you feed him.:D
     
  2. MikeAndLiz

    MikeAndLiz Active Member

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    No responses now that I explained why the calories were so high, how strange. now that its seen that my calorie requirements might not even be met as apposed to *putting you guys on* I get no responses.
     
  3. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm a newb in every sense of the way and I burst out laughing when I read your post. I can fully understand why the people here think this is a joke. If you are serious about gaining QUALITY mass, PLEASE, PLEASE, take everyones most consistent advice and READ THE STICKIES!! They're at the top of the beginner forum and have all you need to know about why they're replying the way they are.
     
  4. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    Take a look at my avatar. I am 160 lbs @ 5% bodyfat, 8 weeks out from a show last year. If you think you would look small at 6%, you are correct....if you had NO MUSCLE MASS. The workout you are currently on includes virtually no muscle building movements such as squats and deadlifts. If you go with your planned bulk with the foods you have listed and don't plan on incorporating basic compound, multi-joint movements working progressively in weight, you will become sloppy looking and fat. Additionally, if you read in a muscle mag that ramen noodles and spaghettio's can lead to a quality bulk, my suggestion would be to not take advice from a muscle rag which is geared for the enhanced drug user. On second thought....don't take ANY advice from a muscle mag, whether it's training or nutrition. (Jeff Everson's publication, however, is one I actually do like).

    I would go on a clean, functional eating plan incorporating lean meats, egg whites, oatmeal, sweet potato, brown rice, a quality protein supplement, plenty of veggies and fruits, and healthy fats.

    And train those wheels!!! Leg extensions and the occasional hack squat won't do $!&#!!

    :gl:
     
  5. MikeAndLiz

    MikeAndLiz Active Member

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    mastover I have to ask, how tall are you? yes if you are shorter at 160 then you will look huge as you do but if you are on the tall side as I am at 160 I will look horrible. I need an answer to a question also if someone is big at 215 pounds at 5"11 with 28% bodyfat and has 16.5 inch biceps when pumped what would the bicep size be after dropping to 6% bodyfat? mastover I have to say though your avatar is an inspiration because as of tomorrow i'm cutting :D....can you guys give me some advice or adjustments to my diet for cutting please?
     
  6. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    If you dropped to 6% bodyfat from 28%, your biceps would be smaller in diameter, but they would have the appearance of being larger due to the fact that they have now become cut, shredded and 3-D looking. Not just a 16.5" blob of undefined fat. Same with my avatar pic. I am actually quite tall for that weight, as I am 5'9" tall, but again, due to the low bodyfat, I "appear" to be larger and people often mistake me for weighing much more than I do.

    But, size is irelavant if you don't have the strength. If someone is 215 lbs at 25% bodyfat and can squat 200 lbs, the guy who is 175 lbs at 8% bodyfat that can squat 400 lbs will not only BE stronger, but LOOK stronger too. Not to mention more ripped as well.

    In your instance, I wouldn't cut or bulk, instead I'd eat a good balanced diet with plenty of lean protein sources and clean carbs, and focus on getting stronger in the gym, as we had previously discussed.
     
  7. MikeAndLiz

    MikeAndLiz Active Member

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    Thats the thing I used to weigh 215 well heres my story I was 135-140 skinny as all hell guy then I bulked up and I was with 28% bodyfat. My strength was through the roof though, I was benching 200 for my reps and curling 150 for my reps, for my dumbell curls I was using 50 for my reps. I started to cut and my strength went to hell and my size went down to hell as well, I stopped working out for about a year now and am at 180 with 14% bodyfat but now my arms are only 14 inches and my chest is like 40 my strength is, For my reps on bench I do 145 and curls I mainly do dumbell curls and I use 30 pounds. Is that normal for the time off that I havent been working out? I still have a medium build but I want to look awesome. I just got back from the store and bought some new foods for my cutting diet. I havent done the math so I cant say what the calories will be or protein and carbs but heres how my diet will look everyday.


    morning-cardio maybe some hit or just on the bike or treadmill, 7 egg whites and an apple afterwards, next meal chicken breast with a yogurt and a carrot, next meal same thing, 1 can of tuna with an apple, last meal 1 can of tuna with a yogurt.

    also in the evenings I might workout but if I dont then I will workout on a different day and not do cardio that day.

    what do you think of my cutting diet?
     
  8. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

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    I really hate to sound harsh, but from what I see, its a trainwreck. It sounds like your macros/carb timing could be a lot better. Of course, you could be a lot less carb sensitive than I am. I would replace the fruit and yogurt with veggies, except for post-workout.

    This thread has attracted the attention and advice of some of the most respected people in these forums. I would take the word of 1fastGTX, Mastover, RTE, and others as the gospel.

    If reading and applying the info in the stickies is not enough, I'd recommend looking at John Berardi's Precission Nutrition (or you can get a lot of the same info from his website) or similarly, Tom Venutto's Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle.

    Try to do very few isolation movements, in favor of compounds, and start doing Squats and Deads! And although RTE won't agree, you might want to try more of a moderate-volume approach, such as a Waterbury program instead of a HIT go-to-failure routine - at least for variety. Good luck to you
    :tu:
     
    #28 Blob, Aug 30, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2006
  9. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    He ain't doing any HIT routine, he is doing mutiple sets of an exercise until he can't do any more. plus he does that on a split routine. Must be a chet blackberry program or something.:D
     
  10. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    You seem to spend a lot of time and effort thinking about your bench and curl strength. I think that isn't the most productive point of view for you.
     
  11. MikeAndLiz

    MikeAndLiz Active Member

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    ok guys heres the thing, I kind of ignore my legs. They are never seen and yes I know people will say well you're not in it for the health and that's partly true. I want to look good, of course I want to be healthy I just hate leg workouts and I know people will say in order to get big you have to workout your legs or just because you dont like it doesnt mean you shouldnt work them out and I agree but I really find legs pointless to workout. I mean yeah sure it will look ridiculous with tiny ass legs and a nice upper body thats why I do work them out but not as intense as I do my upper body. Dont get me wrong I work them out hard but just the excercises that I do.

    I know it's about health but honestly, I have always been healthy even at the 215, at that weight I was stronger and always had energy and now that i'm at 180 well, i'm just not as strong. The thing I want is to look good.

    I know about eating yams, sweet potatos, baked potatos, veggies and all that, I even know that you burn more calories eating a stick of celery then the actual amount of calories in the celery stick itself, I also know that mustard help in burning bodyfat. The thing is is that I have tried all that stuff and the stuff that worked best was the stuff I put in my diet. It was through trial and error that I found what worked for me, I can lose or gain weight really fast and I have no idea why but I really can. The one thing that I know really messed me up was on my first cut when I lost all my strength, I pretty much starved myself and I know thats why my biceps got smaller and why my strength went down, so I learned.

    At my current size, 5'11, 180, 14% bodyfat, 40 inch chest, 14 inch arms, would it be good for me to cut or would I look anerixic if I did?

    Again, thanks for all your help and replies everyone. :tu:
     
  12. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected.

    Mike, since you say you can gain or lose easily, considering your stats and the time of year, perhaps a clean bulk should be first, followed by a sensible cut in the spring. You say you know what to do, but it doesnt sound like you are following that knowledge. I'm sorry for saying trainwreck earlier, but I think you should take all the things that you say work for you, and clean them up. Give it an honest try and keep us posted, we're here to help.

    Almost everyone will agree that heavy compounds, particularly squats and deads, are essential. It's foolish to try to build a mansion on a bad foundation. Yes, you can get some biceps without squats, but it will take you longer and you will end up looking like a lightbulb. I would love to do workouts of just curls and militarys, but it just ain't gonna work. I don't think anyone can honestly tell you they got all big and studly without spending some serious time in a rack.
     
  13. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    It's not just the small legs. Along with the small legs goes a small back. You might not get as big on top if you don't work your legs.

    What you are missing is that working your legs also grows your arms. This is because when you exercise, hormones which stimulate growth are released into the bloodstream. And the bigger the muscle you exercise, the more of the hormones gets released. You don't have bigger muscles than your legs and lower back, unless you're already a freak. These hormones circulate through the whole body and stimulate growth in all muscles that have recently been exercised. So on your leg day, you are actually setting up growth conditions for whatever you worked out the day or two before.

    Here is a recent uppers workout for me:

    The amount of hormones is roughly similar to the amount of Calories burned.

    Here is another recent workout:

    OK so in less time, 33% more Calories were burned. The increase in hormone response is similar. So I actually get more of my testosterone (which has full body effects) from working legs than I do from working arms. No way I could do that intense of a workout with arms.

    Now there are some other effects as to why working legs builds muscle on your arms, but I think the big one is the hormone reponse which is "whole body" even if you did a split workout.
     
  14. sleeper

    sleeper Well-Known Member

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    Your diet looks allright up until you get to the bread and peanut butter. Going a bit too far there I think. Keep in mind variety is just as important as the quality of food you eat. You can't possibly get a variety of nutrients from all of that bread and peanut butter.

    According to my rough calculations, you're at about 2500cal BEFORe factoring all of that peanut butter/bread, which is an ok start.

    But then you add on top of that about 4000 calories from just the peanut butter and bread. I suppose its pointless to say that its almost all carbs and fat (i figure about 290grams of fat... which is, frankly, completely insane and not good for you).

    You're going to want to bring up the protein to calorie ratio somewhere about 75-100grams for every 1000 calories.

    Peanut butter is great for bulking, but i'd limit it to maybe 6 tablespoons alltogethor (and thats probably if you're allready huge to begin with,.. personally, i never felt the need to go over 2 tablespoons a day). Remember, you should be getting plenty of other fat from everything else you eat too.

    And, honestly... ramen is total shit. I don't know why you'd want it. It has almost zero nutritional value. Probably the same with whatever those spaghetti-turds are but i wouldn't harp on that too much if its in moderation.

    Steve
     
  15. Gordo

    Gordo Well-Known Member

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    You say you know what works best, so what is it that you are asking for help with again?
     
  16. MikeAndLiz

    MikeAndLiz Active Member

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    Gordo, I'm asking for help because it never hurts to learn and I did learn. I had always heard people say that to do squats would get you big but I always thought it meant for legs but now I learned that it releases growth hormone so that is awesome, I also want to know if a bulk or a cut would be best for me right now. The main reason I ask questions though is to learn and get the opinions of others and I did. thank you all very much.
     
  17. mahloni

    mahloni Well-Known Member

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    Because you haven't tracked Calories and the Protein/Carb/Fat breakdown. If you are just piling on a whole lot of calories without worrying about the macro ratios then that is a "dirty bulk" almost by definition.

    Because you are not including fruits and vegetables, oatmeal and sweet potato in your diet. When carbs come mainly from dense carbs like rice, pasta and breads without a good amount of fruit and vegetable carbs many consider that a "dirty bulk". The majority of "clean carbs" should be from fruits, vegetables, sweet potatoes, spinach and greens. Complex carbs from Rice, Brad and Pasta (even whole wheat) are susceptible to added fat stores especially if the caloric intake is very high. (and 6,000+ calories at your size is very high)

    Because many poor assumptuions are made in your diet about "good fat" and "bad fat" as well as the GNC recommended Spaghetti-Ohs and Ramen noodles. Although the "fat" in your diet is not directly related to the "fat" in your body it has a more complex function than simply fats that are "bad for you" and fats that are "good for you". As stated before, read the stickies at the top of the forums and beware unsolicited advice from GNC.

    This is not to say you are at all "wrong" in your approach. As someone mentioned, ask 50 people and you'll get 50 different ideas and opinions.

    But among all the varying opinions on diet and routine, it is pretty universal that tracking calories and proper ratio of macros is important. (the exact ratios are debatable) Clean carbs from fruits veggies and sweet potatoes, oatmeal etc. are better than dense carbs (rice, pasta, breads).

    Again, this is not to day you are "wrong" or anything but you asked why everyone was calling this a "dirty bulk".

    Read the stickies.

    BULKING - A beginners guide from the intro forums is excellent and quite detailed.

    And if you want to read about real dirty bulking check out this article on Dave tate:

    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=971737

    :eek:


    Mahlon
     
  18. sleeper

    sleeper Well-Known Member

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    After reading that gastronomic disaster of a diet-'plan' i could only wonder what this guy looks like.

    Checked out the website and a google image search... yeah... that's about right. A complete lard-ass who's aim it appears is to get strong enough to be able to haul around twice his weight iin pop-tarts.

    The most hilarious part is reading the absurd justification for his heart-stopping diet. "hey, its not so crazy.. he trains every day... dude lifts 600 pounds... he's a pro." I'd put him on about par professional status with pie-eating contest champions.

    Hmmm.. but if he's happy. Personally i'd just cop a really mean smack habit.

    Steve
     

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