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What should I expect with the Military Press?

Discussion in 'Introductions & Advice For Beginners' started by Niku, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. Niku

    Niku Member

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    The idea behind the infrequent visits to the gym is simply that those who believe in this training philosophy believe that shorter rest/recuperation/rebuilding periods, ie. three times a week, are counterproductive. They believe that such frequency is actually deleterious, because it doesn't give the muscles time to do their job. It will probably shock you, but some actually have much longer rest periods, even as much as a month. I, myself, have benefitted from two to three week layoffs on occasion. However, theory is theory, but we have to be guided by results, and my results with the presses have not been satisfactory. Starting Monday, I'm going to be looking for new approaches with the press lifts (whatever works). For the Military Press, I'm going to experiment with a technique that Charles Atlas would smile upon (Are you too young to remember him?). I'm going to be pressing the top of my door frame. Charlie called that Dynamic Tension. Scholarly types call it Isometric training. It definitely works, but I'm not so sure about motivation. I think I may need an objective measure of what I am doing. We'll see. In the meantime, I hope that everyone maintains their polite but skeptical approach.
     
  2. bradh

    bradh Well-Known Member

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    Your wasting your time with machines. They are ok for adding overall volume but the basic barbell lifts are the meat and potatos of bodybuilding, oly lifts, the old strongmen and power lifting. No need to re-invent the wheel. You seem to have some knowledge of the old school lifters and they ALL used barbells because it works.
     
    #22 bradh, Nov 12, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  3. bradh

    bradh Well-Known Member

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    If your using high reps - 8-12 - try lowering it to 4-6 and take 3-5 min rest periods for a mth or more.
     
  4. Niku

    Niku Member

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    Sorry, but I can't go along with that. Overload the muscle and give it time to recover. Do that, however you do it, and you'll get stronger. That's what I believe, and I have lots of company in that belief. Anyway, that's what I'm going to do. However, it may very well be that some lifts take more time for significant progress to be made than with others, and it is certainly true that not everyone responds the same way to exercise. So, the answer is not to expect too much and to be open to new approaches. Monday, I'm going to start using a different approach with my presses, which I will use for four weeks. It will still be overload and rest but in a different way. If there is no improvement after four weeks, I'll just have to live with the knowledge that I'm one of those slow gainers. There are such people. Some, according to what I've read, can never gain at all.
     
  5. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    Your mindset has already set you up for defeat. You're 100% wrong with this assessment. Don't know what your goals are, but it appears that you already have a dogmatic attitude regarding training, and this in itself, will contribute to your frustrations.... Not to mention, setbacks and failures.. Further, we have no knowledge of your diet...

    In any event, I wish you success and good luck.
     
  6. Niku

    Niku Member

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    I agree about nutrition. I try to eat well, and I do take protein powder, not to mention Creatine. As to dogmatic, well, it's always the OTHER person who is dogmatic, isn't it? Who would call himself dogmatic? Certainly not me, and not you, either, I'll bet.
     
  7. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    I've trained in just about every training system in existence in my 30+ years of competing. Open your mind to all the training variables, and do not limit your beliefs to one or two systems of training. They all work when implemented in a periodized protocol.

    Along with your training limitations, not to mention your attitude... your diet is also very suspect.

    Machines only??? :confused:
     
  8. KT Monahan

    KT Monahan Active Member

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    Wait ... are you really 73 years old?
     
  9. Gothgirl

    Gothgirl Active Member

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    This is why a lot of people do split routines. I have a hard time imagining that you could be working any muscle group effectively if you're doing a 14-exercise full-body routine just one time per week, especially if, as you claim, you never get sore. (I generally get a bit of DOMS when I get back to the gym after a week's rest - I think of it as a reward.) What do you do, spend a whole afternoon in the gym?

    I suspect most of the regulars here are, considering that Charles Atlas passed away in 1972. (I was in kindergarten then, just so you know.) However, I've heard of him, of course.

    Well, I wish you luck in that. For myself, I was thinking of switching to upright rows for a while. (You can do this at a cable station, btw - no plates to change.)

    I really have to hand it to John Stone, he's set and is maintaining a high standard for civility in a forum dedicated to fitness and strength training. When I started lifting, my online source for advice and support was misc.fitness.weights (back when usenet was still useful.) The newsgroup was unmoderated, and the regulars could be brutally frank. I guess we've come a long way....
     
  10. Niku

    Niku Member

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    Does this philosophy work in only one direction? Barbells only? Frankly, I'm finding this tiresome, but I will be back in five weeks to report on my progress with the Isometric method. I'm not pessimistic, because I have read more than one study that said it was the most effective way to gain strength. Why, then, isn't it more popular? My guess is that it's because it's boring. There's no feedback, and it doesn't motivate. You can't even keep records of your progress, or lack thereof. Contrast this with the exhilaration you get when you are able to complete a lift for the first time. There's no comparison. Pushing your hands together works, but it doesn't put a smile on your face. Motivation is crucial. That's how most of the silly machines you see on TV work. You could accomplish the same results and more with standard exercises, but would you? Those gimmicky machines provide enough novelty and change to keep you going--for awhile. I will say no more on why I am taking the path I have chosen. I'm happy with it, and that's enough for me. And many, many others, I might add. Exercising is not a settled science, any more than dieting is. There is room for more ways than following the method your coach might have told you in High School.
     
  11. JoeSchmo

    JoeSchmo Well-Known Member

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    Well, you asked for the best way to gain strength, and people are telling you. The reason why barbells are superior to machines for gaining strength is that 1) they simulate real world movements and therefore have enormous carryover, and 2) They work all of the stabilizer muscles necessary to hold up the weight. Machines do all of the balancing for you. A standing military press not only works your shoulders, but also your abs and core.

    A person who is strong with free weights will also be strong on any machine. A person who gains strength on machines, will find that the strength does not carryover to barbells or any other kind of free weight or real world activity. This is why people are suggesting you incorporate free weights in order to reach your strength goals.

    I guess I, and others, find it strange that the reason you are against free weights is because you just don't like changing plates. During my time on various forums, I've heard a lot of reasons for not using free weights, but "not wanting to change plates" has got to be one of the weirdest and lamest reasons I've ever heard.

    Not trying to come down on you -- I'm just being straight with you.
     
  12. bradh

    bradh Well-Known Member

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    You stress overload.... So i assume yo feel the more overload the better?
     
  13. Niku

    Niku Member

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    Yes, but I don't hold that against myself. I don't want to be judged as such, either. I would have absolutely no interest in being the world's strongest 73-year old. Foolish as it may be, crazy as it might be, I still fancy myself in my 20s, and I judge myself by those standards, so I have a ways to go. The day of reckoning has not yet come, fortunately. However, hard as it may be to believe, I was near the top at my last gym. I even had one guy call me Superman. Honest! It was great. True, many of the machines lied about the poundages, but I max'd out many of those machines (That's satisfying), and I was doing things that I didn't see anyone else doing.
     
  14. Robert2006

    Robert2006 Active Member

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    Nah you can use dumbbells to.

    It's one reason I have three barbells. Sure two of them are crap but I don't have to change plates that often. But them I'm damn lazy and always have been :whistle:
     
  15. KT Monahan

    KT Monahan Active Member

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    At age 73, I think it's awesome that you are still pushing weight around even it's machines.
     
  16. Niku

    Niku Member

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    Well, I'm going to shoot the first guy that says, "He's spry for his age".
     
  17. Gothgirl

    Gothgirl Active Member

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    QFT

    And the more I lift (and do yoga), the more I realize that on some level it's really all core. A strong core makes you stronger on all the lifts, and in life generally. That's one of the reasons I do weight training. My hope is that if/when I reach the OP's alleged age (like mastover, I find much about him to be suspect) I will be a tough old broad, rather than a frail little old lady.

    I don't think anyone here is saying don't use any machines ever. The assisted chin-up/dip machine has been incredibly useful to me. I've been supersetting calf press/leg press on the leg press machine at the end of leg day for a while (though for leg press I really prefer the "sled" where you pile on the plates.) Cable stations are a solid addition to a weight routine - but they key is they're additional.
     
  18. Niku

    Niku Member

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    Not necessarily. No. There are so many opinions about training. It's not easy to sort them all out and, to confuse matters, I suppose it's possible to gain from contradictory methods. What to do? I guess you just have to rely upon your judgment after considering what everyone says and to be willing to make changes as they seem necessary and desirable. I seem to be the only one here who does that. Anyway, I had thought that the more overload the better, but the latest I've read on the subject says that you're wasting your time if you overload by more than 30%. Are they right? Who knows? Then there's negative lifting. That's another subdivision, and there are a million of them. How about "muscle confusion"? Is there anything to that? Well, I could go on and on without pause about all of the "shortcuts to success," but I'm sure you already know them all. Sometimes I get a little depressed that in the 21st century we still don't know the answers to so many things. Maybe I should go out and start another religion. There's always a market for that, and I do live in California. This is where everything begins, or so they tell me.
     
  19. Niku

    Niku Member

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  20. sauron256

    sauron256 Active Member

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    I'm still finding it hard to believe that OP is not a troll...
     

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