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training the different chest-areas

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by new_arnie, Apr 9, 2006.

  1. new_arnie

    new_arnie Well-Known Member

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    hi,

    I'm currently trying to build uo my upper chest in particular, but somehow i think my lower-outer chest is growing more than anything else...which is not exactly what I want.

    I'm doing this max-ot routine for chest:

    3 sets incline DB press (30° angle)
    2 sets incline BB press (15° angle)
    1 set of parellel bar dips


    I always try to lower the bar as high on my chest as possible ( close to my chin) and all ..

    what I was thinking is that it might have to do with the gripwidth. what works the inner part and what works the outer part of the chest..wider or closer grip?

    Thanks for your expert opinions ;)
     
    #1 new_arnie, Apr 9, 2006
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2006
  2. chang

    chang Well-Known Member

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    It's just going to take time to get the fullness in your chest that you desire. Probably months, or even years. Using a wider grip will work more the outer portion of the chest, and close to emphasize inner chest.

    Flies are also a good movement for getting the inner chest. I would design a program that uses a couple of pressing movements, and a couple flying movements to help stimulate the entire chest. Here's what I personally would do.

    Incline BB Bench Press (24" Spacing - very slightly wider than shoulder width) 5x5
    Weighted Dips 5x5
    Incline Cable Flies 3x12
     
  3. jwdiho

    jwdiho Well-Known Member

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    I agree with above. Cable crossovers after the heavier lifts to build nice definition near the center.
    For general mass, lift heavy and possibly add squats or deadlifts for the GH benefits.
     
  4. bradh

    bradh Well-Known Member

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  5. Jon Skee

    Jon Skee Well-Known Member

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    I have never done dips but I find flat Bench press and incline bench press very good for working the upper area of the chest.

    How long have you been doing this for?

    And Im not sure on this but when I did incline BP I didnt put the bar up further especially not near chin, Im pretty sure I left it a little below where the underarm meets chest.

    With these I did DB chest flys and flat Bench press.

    I did this from june up until now, where I have made gains on my chest (from a medical problem, and being born without propper chest muscle)
    which I am very pleased with.

    If you havent been doing this for long maybe keep it going, it took me a very long time to even get muscle on my chest let alone build it it up further.
     
  6. betastas

    betastas Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to step in and say you can't target areas of the chest. The chest is not a muscle like the quadriceps where you can activate different heads. On another popular forum there was a discussion of this exact topic. All biological research points towards the muscle not being able to change shape or be targetted. It will grow as a unit. If you think your lower chest is too large... then either you have accumulated some fat down there, your chest is naturally shaped that way, or you haven't grown your chest to its full potential yet (without going monstrously overboard).

    I have been doing almost exclusively parallel bar dips and flat bench Dumbells... and my upper chest has grown too. If you want the large chest to be as developed as it can be given your genetic makeup, do dips, benchpress (I prefer DBs) and if you desire, flies. I just do the first two.
     
  7. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people who have been doing it for a long time, disagree with those who think you can't attack different areas of chest, abs, etc.

    Here you can find a video on chest by milos sarcev. check it out:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/fitshow.htm


    I agree with Milos.
     
  8. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    If you want full chest development, there are three necessary exercises to perform from a bodybuilding point of view:

    -- Weighted Dips for the tie-ins to your shoulders (pectoralis minor) and the sternal head of pectoralis major. This is your primary mass builder.
    -- Incline Bench (DB or BB or machine) to focus on the clavicular head of pectoralis major.
    -- Cable Crossovers or the Pec Deck (both provide constant tension throughout the ROM unlike flyes) to isolate.
     
  9. new_arnie

    new_arnie Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the link there..

    and thanks for the other replies too.

    what stands in the way of changing up my routine and throwing some flyes and cable crossovers in there is that I'm doing max-ot and the guys at AST say those exercises suck ;)

    to those who haven't read thru the max-ot stuff, they actually say it pretty straight forward, I'm not joking :). I know those exercises work though, I've done them many times before. But since I'm not doing anything wrong actually -nothing major- I think it will also be possible to build a good chest doing it the max-ot way. or what do you think?

    and except of the fact that my chest is not yet developing the way I would I want it, I'm actually loving max-ot! my progress on all other bodyparts is absolutely incredible!

    so I'ma stick with my current routine for now and try those tips mentioned in the t-nation article. and maybe it just takes more time and this: :bb:

    ... :)
     
    #9 new_arnie, Apr 9, 2006
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2006
  10. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    It takes a long time and lot of mass to have a well-developed chest. Be patient and you'll get there. :tu:
     
  11. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    Actually you can target the upper pecs. The trick is to find out what angle of incline works for you.

    Too high and the anterior deltoids are involved too much. Too low and the upper pecs aren't involved.

    Many recommendations are made from 30 degrees to 60 degrees of incline. Somewhere in there is your specific angle.

    The amount of weight used for a flye makes all the difference. Don't try to go as heavy as you can on those. Concentrate more on mind-to-muscle and feel the squeeze.
     
  12. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    You cannot isolate the upper or lower pec. You can emphasize, but not isolate.

    With that out of the way, are you not doing MAX-OT? You keep coming in here asking for program help, yet your sig says you're on MAX-OT. If you are on their program, do their program. Stop messing around and give it an honest, complete effort for 12-15 weeks.
     
  13. Wolfstriked

    Wolfstriked Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with the above.I also dont agree with the wider width hits outer chest,narrow width hits inner chest.I believe that a muscle contracts and grows uniformaly.So when you go wide or narrow your only changing the muscles that are getting hit thruout the range of exercise.Wide stretches chest hence hitting it more while narrow doesnt really use chest and builds more delts and triceps.I feel in between is good IMO.

    Also,what you think is your upper chest most likley isnt.What i mean is I thought the chest was divided in half but after seeing these two pics I know different now.

    http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/PectoralisSternal.html
    http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/PectoralisClavicular.html

    Now everyone is different so there may well be people with bigger upper pec muscles.

    Try different angles until you feel your upper pecs working....and you will at a certain angle.

    Also Max-OT is low reps if im not mistaken.I am starting to understand something with reps and building muscle.I noticed that I can build muscle real fast in isolation exercises with 2 to 4 reps.Yet compound exercise I cant.Whys that???????Also the isolation exercises that I do heavy make me stronger in the compound exercises.
    Example is my squat....2 months ago I was doing 255 for 6 reps and now do 325 for 8.My leg extensions went up from 140 to 220.

    Then it hit me..........and this was a revelation as I forgot I used to think this way.When you do say the bench press you cant fatigue your chest with 2 to 4 reps since theres many muscles helping out(taking stress off pecs at varying points).This is why yrs back I built my best chest and was at my strongest(120 pound incline dumbell presses).

    How did i do that????????I read where a bodybuilder said he uses heavy flyes to build his chest and believes that its also a mass builder.Well I went with that thought full steam ahead and it worked and I forgot that years later.What I do remember is that I was injury prone:lol: Heavy flyes are crazy!!!

    Just recently I stumbled onto "DA MANS" website.Ronnie coleman is a monster and is the strongest bodybuilder of all time.When reading thru his articles I ran across his philosophy on using 12 reps.He explains it better

    http://www.ronniecoleman.net/monsterweights.html

    Edit....did I write all that:doh: remember its all about the pump:tu: as Arnold would say its better than sex
     
    #13 Wolfstriked, Apr 9, 2006
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2006
  14. Omaha

    Omaha Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. betastas

    betastas Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the meatheads at another forum have been debating this. The guys with tons of years and mass under their belts explain that there is no way to grow the chest by emphasizing different ranges of motion. In all their experiences, it grows by doing proper exercise, but it grows as a whole. It will develop as you get larger with more mass. You won't grow the top without growing the whole thing. I agree with them, as it doesn't make sense from a biological point of view that a muscle can warp it's biological shape. Doing a multitude of exercises is your best way to grow you chest though, as per chicanerous' recommendation.
     
  16. Hort

    Hort Well-Known Member

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    Props to that. As a guy who has a long way to go on his chest, I've been incorporating dips routinely for the past 6 weeks on my bulk... and just started using a dip belt/weight today. It's been the 2nd-best mass builder for me, after squats.
     
  17. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    Well, different exercises hit the upper or lower chest better than others. But you can't selectively target inner or outer chest. That's not possible given our anatomy and how our muscles attach.
     
  18. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    Can someone please excuse my ignorance and explain to me how cable flys differ from cable crossovers. Is it that with flys, your hands touch at the middle and crossovers, your hands cross or is there a more distinct difference or is my definition of crossovers just wrong?

    Thanks.
     
  19. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    My understanding of cable flyes is that you drag a bench inside a cable machine and do flyes just like you would with a dumbell only in this case you are using cables, and this can be done with a flat, incline, or decline.
     
  20. Buster

    Buster Active Member

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    As far as I know, you can't *specifically isolate* different chest areas, but you can definitely *emphasise* different areas, which can have a big effect.

    Look at a lot of huge, ripped pro bodybuilders. The definition between the upper and lower chest is often very defined.

    I agree that you can't specifically grow the upper chest without the lower, and vice versa - because whatever type of chest exercise you're doing, you're using both parts, at least to some degree.

    But if you do flat bench first, then incline after, the focus is more on the lower pecs. Simply because even though both upper and lower chest are working during the flat bench, the muscle fibres in the lower chest become tired and fail first.

    If you want to put more focus on your upper chest, I say do inclines first, then flat bench. I tried this once for about 8 weeks. When I went back to flat benching first, I found my bench had gone way up, simply because you use both parts whenever you're working the chest, and my upper chest had been lagging behind in the past.

    PS: remember that the higher you put the incline, the more the emphasis moves towards upper chest and shoulders. The lower the incline, the more emphasis towards lower chest. The wider you grip the bar, the more emphasis there is on the outer pecs and shoulders. The narrower a grip you take, the greater the emphasis on the inner chest and triceps.
     

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