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Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Big_D, Mar 10, 2009.
3/20/09 - Morning Workout
270 x 20
290 x 12
240 x 15
All squats ATG
LEG CURL (toes pointing at wall)
150 x 12
135 x 14
warmup 2x5 45
warmup 1x5 70
warmup 1x3 105
warmup 1x2 140
working sets 3x5 175
Today at the gym I saw a guy with 360 lbs on the barbell. He would then squat down an inch or two, then go back up
I'm not sure what the point of doing this is.
I see this just about every time I go to the gym.
Did some squats yesterday
FSQ 225lbs 5x5
3 squat workouts this week
a) 5 x 5 @ 80kg
b) 5 x 5 @ 70kg
c) 5 x 66kg, 5 x 72kg, 5 x 76kg, 5 x 82kg, 5 x 88kg.
I too have witnessed this many times!
Unless you're squatting to at least parallel, the movement is pointless. Those guys would be better off sticking to the leg press!
I'm not going to go that far because parallel is difficult for some people, but yes, I agree this guy isn't seeing too many benefits.
That's not true. There are good reasons to limit range of motion in the squat, both at the top and at the bottom. The muscles don't benefit any more from training full range of motion than they do from training to within about 15 degrees of flexion/extension of full range of motion. And in the squat, the load increases rapidly on the PCL (a ligament) and stops increasing much on the muscles as the knee gets past 100 degrees, (which is above parallel). So the "optimal" bottom is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of parallel, and not always below parallel for everyone.
A lot of movements involve the ligaments taking up the slack as the muscle lengthens, which, unless you are particularly interested in putting as much stress as possible on your ligaments, argues for using an exercise range of motion that keeps the load on the muscles; which means staying short of full length of the muscle. So it's not just the squat. This is a pretty general consideration when thinking about exercise.
It's kind of bizarre that you get people trying to be really critical of squats that aren't deep enough, when those same people know better than to hold out for full depth RDLs, GMs, and know why, etc.
Hip drive for power is actually a short range motion - lots of people make this point (just off the top of my head, Dan Johns has it in at least one of his videos). Both tennis and baseball understand the value and power possible in a "compact" stroke. Boxers have long known how to channel very short range of hip and back motion into devastating punches.
It's worth thinking about if squats really ought to be the odd exercise out of all the other ones.
Isometric exercise doesn't strike me as the answer (although it's probably more worthwhile than I give it credit). But there is a point of diminishing returns for range of motion in every exercise. The last bit of range of motion is probably almost always counterproductive.
I understand where you're coming from, but I look at the squat a little bit different. The reason why I don't think shallow squats are very productive is because they really only work your knees and quads. Your hamstrings and glutes hardly even come into play when performing a shallow squat. I've always felt that the squat movement in its correct form was intended to work all four of those muscle groups.
My experience is that I can get glutes fully activated in a heavy enough squat almost no matter what depth. Hamstrings? Even ATG doesn't do much for my hamstrings in a squat. Not even Bulgarians. I can get just about every muscle in the legs working really hard in a squat, but not hamstrings.
This is true of a lot of people, which is why a lot of people pair RDLs with squats. And for a lot of people, RDLs fully work the hamstrings. For me, it's not so much. If I do single stiff leg deadlifts, I get a bit more hamstring.
But frankly, if I want to hit my hamstrings, it's time for the Krispy Kreme. Since my weight has gone up from about 200# to 225#, those have become, uh, indescribably and mercilessly severe.
290x4 I did 5 here but there was too much back into it. I'll shoot for a good 5 next week.
E1)Seated Calf Raises
E2)Standing Calf Raises
I guess we all have slightly different results from the same movement. The only way I start feeling squats in my glutes is to go below parallel. Now don't get me wrong about the hamstring thing, I'm not saying I get a huge hamstring burn or anything from doing ATG squats - but I can definitely feel them in my hams.
I've heard so many different theories about squats over the years. Some of them make a lot of sense while others I don't neccessarily agree with. I've heard many times the tales about how full squats will damage the ligaments in your knees. I'm living proof that this is not the case. In 1998 I tore my ACL in an auto accident. I received some very poor advice from my doctor and decided not to have surgery. My knee was never right after that, and I didn't do any squats at all until 2007. Prior to that I was doing strictly leg press stuff. I started very light and worked my way back up to some decent weight again with the squats, and suddenly my knee started feeling pretty decent again. Now, after about 1.5 years my knee feels as good as new, and believe it or not the clicking noises have even stopped. I can't even tell that I had an injury. The only thing I can really attribute this to is semi-heavy full depth squats.
That's just my two cents worth, and I do realize that everybody has different results from doing different movements. I probably shouldn't have said that partial squats were pointless, and I apologize if I offended you.
I squatted 130kg for 1 yesterday. I may have even be able to get 2 reps. I consider this pretty good as I'm cutting and have lost 5lbs in the last few weeks. Strength is still good though.
OK here's today's squats:
This was rather intense. My fourth rep on every set had a hell of a sticking point. The ellipsis means I had to rack the bar, wait a few seconds, and then unrack to squeeze out the other rep to complete the planned volume. This isn't a good sign, but, hopefully, if I eat a lot today and tomorrow, my strength will get a boost for Wednesday.
BSQ: 3x135, 3x205, 3x250, 4x290, 3x4x325, 4x325 ... 1x325
Not much to do but squat these days:
felt tired, didn't eat nearly enough today due to extreme circumstances. Still hit desired weights in all lifts (5 pound increase).
Sets x Reps Session #2
Squat warmup 2x5 45
warmup 1x5 70
warmup 1x3 105
warmup 1x2 140
working sets 3x5 180
did some squats today