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Talk to your daughter before the beauty industry does

Discussion in 'Female Health & Fitness' started by Budoka, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. Budoka

    Budoka Well-Known Member

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    A follow up of sorts to the Dove Ad I posted a loooong time ago...in another thread, far, far away...( http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=31621 )

    This one is more disturbing to me personally and had a greater impact (as a man and potential parent).

    Children are so impressionable, it's a cliche I know, but the way the commercial/industrial advertising industry works, they will take full advantage of it. Actually, makes me kind of sick to think about.

    Here's the link (it goes to youtube, I would have linked directly to the Dove site, but wanted to directly link to the video).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaH4y6ZjSfE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fettf%2Enet%2F

    ~B

    P.S. here's the Dove site http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/home.asp
     
    #1 Budoka, Oct 2, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  2. Dr.Jen

    Dr.Jen Active Member

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    as a mom and a coach of teenage athletes

    I think the best way to keep them focused on health is teach them to play a sport where they can keep score. Infuse into them passion, and support so they feel worthy as people... not objects. Let them compete and find out that hard work pays off in every area of life.

    I think one of the coolest women out there is Queen Latifa (sp?) That woman feels beautiful... and so she is beautiful... no matter her size.

    :cool:
     
  3. guava

    guava Elite Member
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    Anything that is empowering is a good step. Sports are good, but so are academics, music, arts, leadership.

    The problem I see with advertisement is the discouragement of growth. :( Getting older is portrayed as a negative thing, and getting smaller seems to almost always be preferable to getting larger. I don't like how we're discouraged from building on our strength and our experiences by our fear of aging and getting heavy. Most advertising perpetuates ideas about how a woman should present herself to other people, leaving our priorities about internal changes left to feel less important.

    I also see a transition problem between childhood and womanhood, where we seem to have completely different rules rather than a gradually progressing timeline.

    I'm the menu planner and shopper for the breakfast program at our school, and I'm shocked at the products that are suggested by some of the moms. A lot of them would feed their children high fat and high sugar items; the very same ones that they personally would never touch. It's sad how once a girl reaches a certain age or stage of development there are suddenly hundreds of forbidden foods that once were celebrated. I hope that the way I explain things to my children will help them to help their friends later on. I explain things like how there isn't enough energy in a handful grapes for an entire meal, or there aren't enough nutrients in a burger and fries meal, or how the calories from a glass of orange juice won't be as filling as the calories from a piece of fresh fruit.
     
  4. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    Even though these moms would never touch some of the items they feed their kids, I highly doubt they have any knowledge of proper nutrition and how important it is to a growing child. They believe their kids, because of their youth, are resilient to the "cosmetic" and physical maladies associated with high fat, high sugar. The moms are influenced by the media hogwash. At least this was my experience when my girl was a child. The parents had no clue. How often do you see a family shopping at a large supermarket? Have you noticed the shape of some of these parents, and more unfortunately their children? :eek: Take a look in the shopping carts they're toting around also. It can get quite disgusting. Obesity epidemic amongst kids? Lotsa controversy there. It can stem from a variety of factors, but sometimes the fault can be blamed on the parents. Or is there something deeper here I'm missing. :confused:
     
  5. guava

    guava Elite Member
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    I'm not really too sure. It's pretty confusing. I've talked to more than a handful of health experts (including a couple of my doctors and a public health nurse) who believe that:
    a) kids should be fed a diet with a higher proportion of fat than adults
    b) kids should be allowed to have a greater percentage of refined grains and sugars in their diet than adults
    If you look at products in the store marketed to kids (and leaf through a kids cookbook), they will almost always be either coated in breading, covered with cheese, or dunked in a sweet sauce. :confused: There's clearly a double standard; the same foods that doctors, dieticians, and cookbook authors recommend parents serve to their children are not the same as what they would recommend adults eat. Sure, I can accept that our nutrition needs are slightly different, but I really don't think they're as far off as we've been led to believe, and I think allowing the diets to be so drastically different in childhood just makes for a more difficult transition later on.

    (Of course, it's possible that I'm wrong, and younger kids are resilient to the higher sugar, higher fat, lower fibre crap, and their tastes will change blah blah blah....)

    McDonald's has an interesting magazine ad illustrating how one of their Happy Meals (four chicken nuggets, apple wedges with caramel dip, and a small carton of milk) is a wiser choice than a homemade meal (I think it was a grilled cheese sandwich, tomato soup, and a glass of juice). Interesting, but I think we're still missing the big picture.
     
  6. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    Ha, industrial psychology at its finest. I might be gullible and naive, but the one thing I won't do is take any nutritional advice from Ronald McDonald LOL :lol:
     
  7. Doubleoqueso

    Doubleoqueso Active Member

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    If you do everything the TV tells you, you've got bigger problems than what advertisements your daughter sees. Personal responsibility is a rare and valuable asset in America these days.
     
  8. FBChick

    FBChick Active Member

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    No, Ultimately if a child ends up obese, it's the fault of the parents hands down. Even the medical conditions that can help lead to obesity can be managed with a parent willing to take the time to find out the problem and then has the willingness to put forth the effort to do the right things, even when faced by our childrens temper tantrums.

    Though as a society, we aren't doing our kids any benefits with the way we are letting our lives slip into one of convience's instead of budgeting our time to enjoy life and growing old. Our children learn from what they see around them. When we celebrate things like making money, accumulating things, and preserving our youth, that is what they will grow up to imitate.

    I very much agree, and to be quite honest, it's the trap I fell into myself. Though I believe sometimes the cookbooks and the marketing is more geared towards making the foods "kid friendly" more then it has anything to do with true dietary needs of kids. While there is the knowledge that children need a higher fat content to help with brain development and the need a higher calories count per pound to aid in overall growth, you're right, allowing the kids to have such drastically different diets just hurts them in the long run.
     
  9. guava

    guava Elite Member
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    I kinda took this topic off track. :o

    Television is a large source of information for North Americans, and it's difficult sometimes to tell the difference between advertising and educational information.

    It's also easier to ignore something that you're told once or twice, but harder to ignore it when it's absolutely everywhere you look. That's what Dove was trying to show in that video.

    I agree that Queen Latifah is absolutely one of the most beautiful women in the world. I think there are some actresses and models who are only beautiful because of the way that their genetics has allowed there body to be shaped. Standards of beauty can be rather arbitrary. In the 1960s, tall and thin was one of the only body shape that was attractive. There's at least more of a representation of different shapes now. I like what Dove is doing.
     
  10. Budoka

    Budoka Well-Known Member

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    Not even! You enhanced it. All of you, actually. I feel like a bystander, contributing only a link while the rest of you contribute intellectual discourse.

    If I had the time, I could probably write a short dissertation on how this all ties in with, well, just about every other malady--physical or mental--that all of us here can easily identify, but whom most of us cannot act upon in a manner that would create lasting change. At least, not by the immediate gratification standard.

    It's insidious, really, how deep this problem goes and I too am part of that problem, though as I write this, in my personal life I have recently taken steps that do not serve my own personal benefit and which run contrary to my comfort and security now and for the foreseeable future, but which I am hopeful and optimistic that will prove to be worth the risk in the future.

    In a nutshell (this from the North American perspective): We're all too comfortable with our lives and our lot and far too fearful of change. We often don't push ourselves to be more than we are and tend to stay at the far and of our potential than coming even close to matching it.

    From my perspective, I just want the world to be a good, happy and safe place, for all people. I do not think one need rely on a god or prophet for these things. I also don't think we need to rely on a government or army, a lotion, a potion or a 12-steps book. All that's needed is to listen to one's heart and to take the time to stop and listen to the beat of others.

    Respect, compassion and personal responsibility. There's nothing new here.

    ~B
     
  11. Doubleoqueso

    Doubleoqueso Active Member

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    And that's just sad. A handful of people decide what 300 million people put into their minds for hours each day? Yikes.

    A proven technique for brain-washing is repeated exposure to the same message. Watching TV is basically passive mental programming. Not just the commercials ~ sitcoms, reality shows, and everything in between carry a number of similar messages that are rather obvious.

    They are also entirely subjective. A persons opinion of beauty is shaped significantly by what they are told is beauty. 200 years ago, no man would know the difference in appeal between an RX-8 and a Cavalier ~ because no one would have told them which one is "better".

    Oddly enough - the "ideal man" has remained relatively unchanged over the ages.
     
  12. virtualadrian

    virtualadrian Active Member

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    My wife does the grocery shopping for the house, I make my list of stuff I want, and she gets that and whatever she desires. I remmeber coming home one day and her telling me that she was at the grocery store with all ( or most ) of what I had asked for in the cart.

    A little boy that was shopping with his dad noticed our pickings for the week and asked his dad "What's all that stuff?" The dad replied with "That's produce, it's really good for you!" So the little boy asks "Dad, can we get some produce too?" To which the dad says "No son we are going to a barbeque."

    From there he proceeded to buy ground chuck, white bread buns, potato chips and pop ( far as the wife could see anyway, the produce department at that store is by the meat counter and party foods... ) So ... what did that guy teach his son? It's ok to eat crap!

    There are two things that come into play here. First we do not know how bad the things we eat truly are since we were never educated. Second we are comfortable in our ignorance ( least I know I was ). A large part of the whole obesity problem is caused by large corporations that want to spread mis-information and scare people into buying their junk. I could go on for hours about how our society has been sold out.

    Now McDonalds has health food... Pfft ! Yea right! Going there for health food is like going to a crack house for vitamins.
     
  13. TheTransition

    TheTransition Active Member

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    There is something that bugs me about Dove's campaign..So before I expand, can I ask what this thread is particularly about? Many ppl may call it a company thats finally speaking out, but to me it seems like a very clever and strategic marketing...Ill go into more details once I learn what message this thread is aiming for
     
  14. guava

    guava Elite Member
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    I don't know what the OP is aiming for, but I do realize that Dove is not just doing this as a public service announcement.

    Dove has positioned their product to be one that will appeal to a person who views a traditionally beautiful image to be lacking. They are trying to communicate with the market segment who still cares about what she looks like, but would rather celebrate her uniqueness than conform to popular beauty images. This consumer is also somewhat less vain, and is drawn to the corporation she believes is one who understands that internal beauty is as important as external beauty.

    Dove's campaign hasn't bugged me particularly, but Nike did something along slightly the same lines (but at the same time quite different) a while back that didn't sit quite right with me.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/brennan/2005-08-18-brennan_x.htm

    Nike's ads talked about how wonderful it was to have thunder thighs, a big butt, etc, But I didn't see the point in that one. Those ads were clearly still objectifying women and their body parts, they were just objectifiying a different segment of their target market. You might say Dove does the same thing, but I don't see it quite that way. They feature a broad range of women with different skin colors, body weights, fat distributions, and ages. It's more of a communication about beauty being defined by how we feel inside than how we appear outside to other people. If that helps them to sell shampoo and moisturizer, then I think that's just great.
     
  15. Budoka

    Budoka Well-Known Member

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    From my perspective, the thread is about a link to a Dove corporation 'video' purporting to be about self-esteem and self-image in women and girls.

    Followed by various comments from the JSF population at large (or slim). Hey, it's all about the comments, right?
     
  16. Chadster

    Chadster Well-Known Member

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    I think its good to let girls know that they don't have to be supermodels. A friend of mine at work is a big guy, like 6'4" and 250. His 14 year old daughter is built like he is, she weighs 195 and is about 6'0" tall. Her feet are huge, like men's size 9 or so and still growing. She is naturally muscular and unusually strong without even trying. Her mother gives her a lot of grief because she is not "girlie" and doesn't wear stylish girls clothing. Everyone is not built the same. We all have different tastes and opinions.
     
  17. PlainGreyT

    PlainGreyT Active Member

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    Give me a break

    Does anyone really believe that dove's shameless new angle on 'real beauty' is genuine? The ENTIRE beauty industry is based on insecurity.

    Think about it. If every woman on the planet suddenly lost all reservations about their image do you think there would even be a beauty industry?

    Advertisment campaigns such as this are little more than hypocritical drivel. Lets see how long it takes till another 20 something is advertising 'dove anti aging cream' or a size zero model is promoting 'dove summer glow tanning lotion'

    As a side note, socitey can only extricate itself from the grip of materialism when we choose to take a hard and honest look at what motivates our actions from on day to the next
     
  18. TheTransition

    TheTransition Active Member

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    Yea, but hey, whatcha gonna do? Marketing is a very powerful tool and theres no way to really go around it..If you think about it, it works in two ways ...1.) Let the Consumers influence marketing (remember "new coke"?) or 2.) Let Marketing influence the consumers like we have here...In a society where public image has gotten out of hand, where girls from starting the age of 7 no longer watches cartoon, are rather focusing on becoming Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears...In another words, defining sexy as slutty..Believing in the concept that its not possible to look beautiful unless one wheres a size 6...I don't know what to think about commercial likes these..Dove (a beauty company) is smart enough to know that not every girl will reach the "supermodel" status, and so figure itll gain more consumers by targetting the average America...I'll be damned till the day I start taking parental advice from an organization.

    BTW Does anyone rem. Tyra Banks "I don't care" campaign?
     
  19. Savyart

    Savyart Well-Known Member

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    Even though Dove is looking to capitalize on a notion of better body image for the female population, I'm still all for it. Marketing isn't going away, it's something that plays on our own programming. With that being said, I would much rather marketing be aimed at a true rather than false ideal. I don't care that they're making money off of it - if they are it's because people agree and are putting their money where their ideas are. Money put towards positive body image is money well spent, that is going to be spent on something anyway.

    I grew up in a screwed up household with a mother who had severe eating disorders and inflicted them on us. I was always taller than everyone else and didn't fit with the ideals of the pretty perfect petite girl. I was tormented by what I could never change about myself and be beautiful. It made me ill to realize that in society's view I never really would be beautiful, I'd never be good enough. It is up to ME not to do that to my daughter. If I am speaking, the voices of marketing are mere whispers compared to me.

    My daughter is beautiful for everything that she is, from the inside out - not the other way around. And more than that, I know that I had a direct hand in that. She is secure, she knows she has value on all levels where her peers have doubt instead. The media will always have influence, but never more than a parent, as long as the parent is speaking wth their child.
     

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