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Strength or Looks?

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Bsheller, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. vanDutton

    vanDutton Active Member

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    Personally, I started working out for looks. Strength will come as the fat falls off. I am already quite a bit stronger now than when I started a few weeks ago. I can bench my bodyweight, but I'm not sure about squats or deads. My strength is low, and I'm working on building it. Until I get to that point, I just want below 10% BF. Considering I started in the low to mid-30s, and am now at the low 20s, I am making progress. But looks is definitely my main motivation at this point.
     
  2. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    Fat is a relative thing....

    A 500lb. Japanese Sumo wrestler isn't embarassed about his weight.

    This the normal standard for them.

    In European countries of old, thin women were regarded as "weak".

    Fat laborers these days?.....there's more of them around than you can shake a stick at.

    In a recent study it was shown that fat people survive disease better than thin people on average.

    In nature, bears and other animals fatten up to super-obese proportions to help them get through winters. A ripped and shredded bear won't survive too long in that continual state.

    By admission from some of the better known lifters here....if you're at 6% bodyfat, you'd better stay out of physical altercations due to intestinal/organ protective issues.

    I doubt that the cavemen of old were at 6% bodyfat....simply because for unguaranteed survival in those times, 6% would be too risky for situations of food scarcity.

    Am I sticking up for fat?...nope....tons of research demnstrates that obesity is bad for you in many ways regardless of whether you're embarrassed or not.

    Ours is a visual impact society though basically. Looks speak volumes about the person.

    If a friend of mine goes from normal to 150lbs. overweight, it won't change my friendship but it will be sending me a hoard of sub-concious messages (which will be negative).

    Excessive fat on the average person immediately makes them look slobbish and lazy. It also says" I don't care about myself" or " I'm happy being a fat slob ".

    I take an example like the singing group from back in the day called The Mamas and The Papas.

    The female singer in that group (Cass Elliot (sp?)) was always obese and overweight it seemed. While she had a beautiful voice she was to me ,plain and simple, physically unattractive.

    She might have been happy the way she was, but no amount of rationalizing and compassion and acceptance on my part could change the way I basically felt....which was:- "You're too damned fat!!".

    If she didn't care about input like this from the public,well, that's fine for her. But the first visual message I got whenever I saw her was " Oh....you're one of those fat people that sits around all day and stuffs your face.."

    Maybe if I'd been a 500lb. Sumo wrestler at the time I would have written her love letters.......:dreamy:
     
  3. Bsheller

    Bsheller Active Member

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    His strength is just one measure... Lifting alot won't solve all of your problems. Lifting weights doesn't make you smarter, reading a book doesn't make you stronger. If a strong person can't read, they should be embarrassed, If a smart person can't support their own body weight, they should be embarrassed. However as for fighting, its a pretty childish behaviour that doesnt really accomplish anything other than scraped knuckles and a black eye so in the situation of running from the fight even though he could bench 350 lbs, he must have also had some brains on him.
     
  4. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    If fighting is "childish behaviour" then our society must indeed be sick as sick can be.

    Is fighting "childish"? Or is it an ingrown part of the human psyche?

    Everywhere adults are encouraged to participate in some kind of fight.

    Fight for your rights,fight to win,fight the good fight (war)..

    How many times have you heard the expression "I like him...he's a real fighter".

    If fighting is childish, the average public isn't buying it...record sales attendance for every sport where somebody physically hits another in some way.

    Even sports that aren't primarily pugilistic have players that are idolized for their brutality....NHL Hockey for one.

    Big money in movies that feature one guy beating the crap out of another under the umbrella of righteousness.

    Even kids movies feature fighting in a veiled form....Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter etc.etc.

    Fighting is surreptitiously fed to us on a daily basis by those that manipulate the culture...(media, television).

    We hate bullying in schools...but at the same time we encourage our kids to "get out there in the game and take no crap...if you're hit, hit back".

    If the kid is admonished by the ref, dad will jump in and attempt to smack the ref upside the head.

    In the old days,Karate was considered a formidable form of fighting.

    Now every kid on the block, girls and guys alike, is driven to karate school by soccer-moms that think nothing of it. Almost like a rite of passage.

    One of the most popular cartoons of alltime (Popeye) was all about fighting. That's basically all he did every epeisode...retaliate against Brutus.

    The message in that cartoon being....fighting is not childish or evil if you are doing it on the side of right. This the determining factor....it's o.k. to fight if you're right.

    It's not about being childish...it's all about whether you're wearing the white hat it seems.
     
  5. guava

    guava Elite Member
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    If you have a hoard of negative sub-conscious messages going through your head about your friend, then it almost certainly changes your relationship with him.

    Or maybe if you'd listened to the music on tape, LP or whatever format it came in, instead of going to the concerts, you would have written her love letters.

    Deeply engrossed in my audio cocoon, I could absolutely see myself writing love letters to Meatloaf. "On a hot summer night...." :dreamy: Though he is far from my physical ideal, there are still a lot of things that are extremely sexy about him.

    But you're probably right. It's a very few people who don't give their visual perception of someone greater weight than other characteristics. I was friends with a guy in University who once declared that "every woman looks good in spandex". It was a really weird thing to say, so I asked him for examples. He was able to describe exactly how the right items worn in the correct proportions can be particularly flattering. He had a gift for seeing beauty where others don't. (He was a musician, so maybe we have a theme here.;))

    "Balls" don't mean much to me, and strength of character is measured differently by different people. I would call a person weak who resorts to physical confrontations in cases where conflicts could be resolved with cooperation or other nonviolent intervention. Sure, it's important for a man or a woman to be able to protect himself or herself, but the ability to win a randomly initiated physical fight is pretty much irrelevant where I'm concerned. It takes a stronger person to walk away.
     
  6. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    A good thing to remember:

    Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
     
  7. Happy Monster

    Happy Monster Well-Known Member

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    Excellent point!
     
  8. woodan

    woodan Well-Known Member

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    Looks. Strength is a bonus.
     
  9. Rise

    Rise Active Member

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    Both. But If I HAD to choose, I'd probably choose strength now that I'm married :lol:
     
  10. Bsheller

    Bsheller Active Member

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    Touche on the fighting comment, I would like to say, I draw a line between getting into a brawl with some dude and sports. For the most part of that post, I agree with you but just because humans have always fought doesnt mean they always need to, we also used to enslave other races, burn women at the stake, and drown witches.
     
  11. Bsheller

    Bsheller Active Member

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    To revisit my original post. I like to look good, but when I go to the weight room my goal week to week is to get better at every single lift I do, from bench to toe raises. 6 pack abs are totally useless to me unless I them by holding a 45 while doing sit ups... A big back, big legs, big shoulders, big arms, big neck all come from getting strong. Looks is my bonus, strength is my goal.
     
  12. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    Guava...every woman does not look good in spandex believe me...and I'm a musician to a degree.

    Of course the longer you stay in the bar and the more you drink, the better they look.

    The fact that I might be harboring negative thoughts about my friend's colossal weight gain does not mean it's going to change my friendship.
    I might be wishing he'd drop some blubber though.

    If I only listened to Cass and started writing love letters and got a positive response, at some point I would have to see her in reality.

    This would sort of be like a blind date, where previously you had only communicated with the person through channels that did not provide a visual reference.

    So we meet at a cafe at a predetermined time. I walk around the corner from across the street and see this huge cellulite-encrusted female sitting at a table by herself.

    My first thought is going to be:- "Please dear Lord....oh no...say it isn't so....."

    My second thought will be:- " Well..I can't be so shallow as to immediately dismiss this encounter...so I'll go across the street and introduce myself and get to know the person"

    Next:- a little voice someehere in the back of my head will be screaming "Abort!!!..you fool!!"

    Next:- I will tell myself I'm bigger than just skulking away like a coward.

    Next:- The voice will say "Bulls**t!.....cowardice has nothing to do with it....put your sunglasses on and look for the nearest taxi!!"

    Then:- being ever the chivalrous do-gooder at heart I will go over and make the acquaintance, on my best behaviour. This is when I'll tell her
    I love her voice and music and that I listen to it often on my Mp3 while I'm being treated at the clinic for Ebola,AIDS, and Herpes.

    I will at all times during the conversation heap praise upon her for her work, at no time demeaning her in any way for her size. However I'll finish off with " due to my afflictions ,the doctor has only given me three months to live and I just wanted to meet you in person before I die..."

    This would be the gentlemanly thing to do IMO....:o

    Happy Monster...it doesn't take a stronger person to walk away. All it takes to walk away is knowing that if you don't, you'll get the tar wupped out of you. If you had the power to meet the threat you would then have options....the options would be determined by what you think your role in society is and also the legal ramifications involved.
    If you retaliate,regardless of the outcome, you could end up in court with a charge of some kind, depending on what the witnesses who saw it say.
    It would also depend on the situation. If somebody says something and you get into a fight, that's one thing. If your child is being abducted right in front of you, are you going to walk away from that?, Even if the guy doing it is big enough to wipe the floor with you?

    While negotiation and patience plus a healthy sane adult attitude are totally desirable attributes, there are times in life now and again.........

    Not that I'm condoning flying off the handle at every little thing....social skills are a very valuable asset.
     
    #132 HevyMetal, Apr 24, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
  13. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    And a ponytail!
     
  14. Mitek

    Mitek Active Member

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    I started because of the health. I came to realize I would like to get stronger. I don't like the fact that looks started to matter as well (but they did).
     
  15. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    Why don't you like that fact? I don't see anything wrong with wanting to look good. :cool: :)
     
  16. Mitek

    Mitek Active Member

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    Well, I always thought I'm above judging people by their looks, and suddenly I care about it that much as to invest so much effort into looking good myself (even though I DO realize I do it mostly for health and strength). It's just one of those things one has to adjust to, I guess, as one sheds some fat and gains some lean - like realizing you DON'T have to be cautious while bending over to pick something up from the floor, or while running some distance instead of walking - just for the heck of it.
     
  17. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    Don't be hard on yourself. You can care about YOUR looks and still NOT judge others by theirs. I try to do that every day. :)
     
  18. Mitek

    Mitek Active Member

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    Well, as I said, it's a new idea that takes some getting used to :). I'll get there in the end (possibly, once I see my abs :)).
     
  19. Hockey4

    Hockey4 Active Member

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    Well, I used to get more dates when I was scrawny and 135 pounds, so I certainly don't work out for the looks. Don't get me wrong, I like keeping my body fat below 15 percent, and looking fit, but I'm not going for washboard abs or a model body.

    For me, I like moving heavy weight. I like seeing numbers go up, up, up. I like being better at something than 95 percent of the population. I like to set goals and smash them. I like to improve myself. And I just like the feel of putting more than I weigh above my head and standing there with it. Now that's a sense of accomplishment


    Plus, working out is fun, annd it's good for your mental health. I don't think I've been depressed or had so much as a depressing thought in years. Lifting makes me feel like a million bucks.
     

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