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Strength or Looks?

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Bsheller, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    Zen, You missed the point, you think someone should be embarrassed, while there are people like me that aren't embarrassed at all because I might not reach your standards. It is possible that the vast majority of forum members will not reach them. And they won't be embarrassed for not doing so, no matter how much you think they should. The elite in lifting, bodybuilding, or any major sport make up far less than 1% of the population.

    I marvel at some of the things you do in your videos. I have never had the slightest desire to go down the path that you have chosen in weight training for my entire life and I am not embarrassed about it. As I assume you aren't embarrassed by not looking like a Franco Columbo. The same thing as I see it.
     
  2. Doubleoqueso

    Doubleoqueso Active Member

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    I lift because I like lifting. It's my hobby. None of my numbers would impress anyone, but they make me happy. I like the feeling of giving everything I've got to move some iron. It's fun!

    I started out trying to look good for the sake of a little self-confidence. But the confidence came before I met my aesthetic goals, so I abandoned those goals in pursuit of moving heavier weights for fun. Life in general has just been easier and more enjoyable since getting stronger, which only encourages me to keep going.

    I have appearance related motives, but women have nothing to do with it (not that men do, I just have no interest in a romantic relationship right now).

    And as far as the embarrassment thing - screw social pressures. Embarrassment stems from not conforming to someone elses ideas of what you "should" be. Society tells me I should be embarrassed for all sorts of things, from my skin color to my beliefs. Well, society be damned, I'm happy as I am.
     
  3. Happy Monster

    Happy Monster Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with Rtestes. If someone felt I should be embarassed for what little weight I could left then I'd think they had a far too narrow focus in life. There is so much more to life than what you can lift. :)
     
  4. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    I'm pretty sure he recognizes this. He's comparing lean to big, which is a comparison between levels of body fat. In other words, "fat used to mean wealthy. You couldn't get fat in any sense and not be relatively well off." That last bit, of course, isn't always going to be true, but the fat laborers are going to be few and far between.

    Rtestes, respectfully, I have to disagree. I think you have missed the point. Reread this post by zen:

    There is absolutely no reason a healthy 165# male should not be able to achieve a 205# (1.25x BW) maximum squat or deadlift -- that's about eight reps with bodyweight on the bar. This is far from an amazing feat. It is a very basic level of physical fitness. While I don't know if someone who has not achieved this should be embarrassed, I do know that this accomplishment is achievable with a minimum amount of work.
     
    #104 chicanerous, Apr 22, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  5. rapp

    rapp Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Listen to Guava, she knows what she's talkin about.
     
  6. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have from the beginning is to say that if you don't lift this, you should be embarrassed. Not that you need improvement or you can quickly achieve it. But you should be embarrassed. That has aways been my point.

    There are many that I have heard from over the years in PMs within the group that do not squat with bodyweight for reps. We tend to forget, we all aren't created equal in physical matters. His remark about the elite left the impression that They are in large number. If they were, they wouldn't be elite.

    You know I have a fair size collection of fitness mags and books that I have picked up over the last 50 or so years. It is rare to see any of the name bodybuilders lifting real heavy weights. You look at their workouts, you won't see deadlifts mentioned very often. I wonder what brad Pitt lifts since a large number wants to look like him? Does he even deadlift? Hear what I am saying? What do people want to achieve? What should they do to achieve it? When should they be embarrassed?

    BTW Chic, you are beginning to look good in your latest pictures. You might be a model for many. Somehow you have build a body doing a number of the compound exercises.
     
    #106 RTE, Apr 22, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  7. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    It might be rare to see it in those magazines and books, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I don't think it's as rare as you think.
     
  8. JoeSchmo

    JoeSchmo Well-Known Member

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    Then why do I always see fat peasants in movies set during medieval times? Oh yeah, checkmate baby.

    Would you also apply this logic to physical appearance as well? Just curious.....
     
  9. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    :lol:
     
  10. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    I am sure they do or capable of doing it. I do have a book with a number of Zane's workouts showing his workouts, they were low weights except for the last set where he did 5 reps. I will have to look at it. He had no reason to lie about using low weights. They usually go to high side.
     
  11. Bsheller

    Bsheller Active Member

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    How many times must it be said that its not a matter of the elite lifters and everyone needing to do multiple times their body weight? Smply that people, just as they shouldn't be overweight, shouldn't be frail and weak when it takes so little effort not to be. Frank Zane may not have been a world record setting powerlifter (mainly because he wasnt a powerlifter), but thats not to say he couldn't move weight around. The people in question are the ones that have let themselves reach a point where weights that are mere fractions of their own body are too much to tackle. It was totally baseless to bring a body builder lifting low weights as part of his routine into a conversation about people that do absolutely nothing and can barely do 1 rep of a weight far below their own body weight... or to put it into a realistic perspective, people that cant move a Tv or that might have trouble with a bag of dog food up a few flights of stairs. Lifting weights in the gym translates to Tvs and dog food in real life, or a car tire, or wood pellets, or groceries, or firewood... How about your house catches on fire and your 13 year old son is unconscious but you cant support 130 lbs in your arms or on your back... what do you do then? The point I'm trying to make, is that these low beginner weights are things that can and do come up in every day life and being frail and weak (by choice or lack of action) can hinder or make impossible these simple day to day tasks.
     
    #111 Bsheller, Apr 22, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  12. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    I am sure some don't train heavy too. But your post said it was rare to see a big name bodybuilder training heavy, and I do not think it is quite so rare.

    You mentioned "big name bodybuilders," but some of the biggest names are also known for putting up impressive weight. Ronnie, Arnold, Dorian, Franco, JOJ, Priest, just to name a few.
     
  13. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    Yeah, we are getting a little off topic and I may be partially to blame, sorry. :)
     
  14. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    I try not to. It would be like saying- You look like a fat slob, at 5'7" you should be at least down to 165lbs. You should be embarrassed to walk down the street.


    It would be better to say- it is very hard to maintain the proper Fat% if you exceed 200lbs and are less than 6ft. Lets look at what your height reflects in a weight table. You might want to take off some pounds and get to your "fighting weight". :tucool:
     
  15. Bsheller

    Bsheller Active Member

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    If you go through the media gallery and see the transformations that people who were overweight have undergone its amazing... Now do you think that is because someone gave them a sugar coated line about their fighting weight and offered them a hand, or because they were embarrassed to even look in the mirror or take their shirt off on a hot summer day? Think about that. The same would go for strength, how would it make you feel to not be able to accomplish simple tasks due to your lack of strength, that your peers can easily complete.
     
  16. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying tell them they should be embarrassed to walk down the street? They decided to be embarrassed or whatever, that is their choice. But to say they should be embarrassed by some standard is wrong.

    I don't think anyone should be told they should be embarrassed. You might tell them a story about carrying their 130 lb 13 year old out of fire. Scare them. Or just get them to think about their problem.
     
  17. Bsheller

    Bsheller Active Member

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    Embarrassment is something thats based one what other people think... If everyone accepted being 500 lbs, there wouldn't be any embarrassment in it. Whether you directly tell them or they recieve the message implicitly, the embarrassment is still there and is certainly not of their own choice. To answer the question, I'm all for minding my own business but if asked my opinion, I would tell them that I would be embarrassed to be in their condition, be it weakness or obesity. Its the real world we live in, not candy land.
     
  18. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    I don't miss your point, I simply don't accept it.
     
  19. Bsheller

    Bsheller Active Member

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    Sometimes I sign on in hopes that you've posted something Zen.
     
  20. odin1642

    odin1642 Active Member

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    Is it embarrassing when a guy who can bench 350lbs and likes to boast about his strength cos he thinks it makes him a big man then runs a mile from a fight cos he has less balls than a 12 year old school girl ??


    I'd rather measure a guy by balls and character than what he can lift in a gym, which in any event as has already been pointed out has only very limited transference to real life situations.
     

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