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Strength, Hypertrophy and Endurance.

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by robbinhoodX91, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. JC

    JC Active Member

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    Yes! I can!

    Sorry. I couldn't resist a bit of humor.

    I must say that I've learned a lot from Zen's lessons here.:tu:

    This seems to be an argument on semantics... how does one define 'strength'? I agree with Zen.
     
  2. dejavued

    dejavued Senior Member

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    i think that guy is significantly muscular! he's just super lean as well. i'd love to see a shot of his back and legs.
     
  3. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, he's short, muscular, and lean. Because of the shorter levers he has, he does not need the muscle size of someone bigger in order to move heavy weights. But if his clean is so big you would think he would be able to jump much higher and run much faster than one of the 208 class weightlifters, which is not the case at all, because they are heavier, they have more muscle, and thus more power production.
     
  4. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    Browse through http://www.flickr.com/photos/dehwang/

    The image is from there. :nod:
     
  5. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Yeah I guess the strongest triceps back and shoulders don't really contribute much to the ... uh ... bench press? :suspicious:

    Don't look now but those are much more important muscles in the bench press than the chest:

    Dunno about you, but I would take that advice. Scott warms up with 785#.

    Which is only a little less than Brian Schwab benches (530# World record) when he competes at 148#. It's pretty hard to tell from the picture you have there, and the only other picture I can find of him has him in a sweatshirt:

    [​IMG]

    But he looks suspiciously like he's fairly muscular under those shirts there is the suggestion of big traps, noticable delts. Even from the first picture on that site you can see he definitely has triceps going on there.

    Have you taken a good look at him? I mean really - this is the guy you are saying aside from his lats is not significantly muscular?

    [​IMG]
     
  6. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Yeah but if you check the picture I found, I would say the guy is pretty well stocked for quads and a posterior chain. Not a surprise.
     
  7. dejavued

    dejavued Senior Member

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  8. robbinhoodX91

    robbinhoodX91 Active Member

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    Yes, I don't think he's significantly muscular. He doesn't have enormous, bulging muscles.
     
  9. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Look at his quads in the picture I posted. You can go find a whole lot of 133# people and very few of them are going to have quads that big. That guy is definitely muscled up. You can't see in the picture, but he's going to have big hamstrings too.

    Actually, I can't embed it here, but there is a picture that shows his hamstrings clearly here.

    Look at his front leg starting at the knee wrap and going toward his hip. See the depth of that crease? That pretty much shows how much of his leg profile is coming from his hamstring. That's a HUGE hamstring for a guy that size. Compare his thigh thickness to the thickness of his torso (look at his belt). I have big thighs all right, but if my thighs were as thick as my torso at the waist? You're darn right I'd be launching world record weights into the air.

    There's no magic. You can't clean what he does without hamstrings, glutes, erector spinae, (the "posterior chain" of muscles). So it wasn't hard for me to know without looking that guy was going to have the requisite lifting apparatus, even before we found a photo that tells the tale.

    True, he doesn't need to be quite as powerful and strong as a taller person would be in order to clean a barbell, since he probably catches it as low as anyone can. So he gets some advantage from not being tall, but that's about it. He doesn't have much of an quickness advantage on a big man (as we have shown big men who train for it are very quick - see how fast Redding gets under the bar in his clean). So how does he get that 400# up to his catch? Eventually, to get that much force? You are going to need that much muscle.

    Now one of the reasons that guy might not seem "significantly muscular" to you is that the muscles he has enlarged are mostly the posterior chain, as opposed to the "beach muscles". Many people are not used to looking for the more functional muscles when they look at a muscular person.
     
  10. dejavued

    dejavued Senior Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  11. JoeSchmo

    JoeSchmo Well-Known Member

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    Either that, or his definition of "significantly muscular" is someone like Jay Cutler...in which case, this entire discussion is moot given that his fear was becoming "significantly muscular".

    Oti, just to allay your fears, you can lift weights your entire life and you will probably never come close to the muscularity of that maosheng guy in the picture. Alot of guys who are "bulky" may have muscle, but alot of them have a good amount of fat .... Keep your bodyfat low, and you'll never EVER have to worry about getting "too muscular". Trust me on this.
     
  12. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    :nod:

    And not just Oti. Not very many people, period, will get to that level.
     
  13. robbinhoodX91

    robbinhoodX91 Active Member

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    This isn't my fear. It hasn't been since the first page or so. That's why I don't see why this topic is still going.
     
  14. tsk2264

    tsk2264 Active Member

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    Oti, have you seen this blog entry?

    http://fitnessblackbook.com/life-outside-of-the-gym/avoid-a-gym-body-aim-for-an-athletic-body-instead/

    Just thought I'd toss it out.. It seems as if this guy's philosophy is more in line with what you're looking for. If not, no big deal.

    Just so you know, I don't agree with a lot of things written in it. I read some of his other articles which basically advocate avoiding direct leg resistance training. Thanks, but no thanks. I am by no means huge and my body style is one that would ideally be super slim like the Dragon himself, but I consider direct leg work an integral part of achieving my goals.
     
  15. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    You have chosen well.
     
  16. JoeSchmo

    JoeSchmo Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with the article, but I won't go into detail because all that stuff has been hashed again and again in this thread -- but I will say that it is interesting the blogger chooses a bunch of guys on steroids as an example of an overly muscular "gym body"....the implication being that weight training will make you look like those guys ... when in actuality, any natural trainee will never come close to looking like that.
     
  17. robbinhoodX91

    robbinhoodX91 Active Member

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    I didn't even read that article. I scrolled down, glancing at the titles of each section and even from that, I got the vibe whoever wrote that is portraying all people who try to gain muscle as unhealthy freaks.

    Avoid direct leg training? For sure! Don't you work the overhead press and rowing machines with hopes of increasing your legs' strength? No? That's why you'll never be great! :p
     
  18. Azure

    Azure Active Member

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    Found this.

    You can check all the studies too.

    http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/PowerTidbits.html
     
  19. robbinhoodX91

    robbinhoodX91 Active Member

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    ...Strength and the ability to produce force are the same thing...
     
  20. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    Partly. It's an all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares type relationship. Strength is always force development, but force development is not always strength. Lift your 1-RM and you're producing near maximal force, but take 65% of your 1-RM and lift it as fast as possible and you're also producing near maximal force. Either way is producing near maximal force, but only one method does it through an application of strength.

    I'm not sure what information Azure's quote is meant to bring to the table though.
     
    #160 chicanerous, Jan 28, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009

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