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Some trainers are funny

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by zenpharaohs, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. pmh

    pmh Well-Known Member

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    Do not ever incorrectly accuse me of demeaning anyone or posting 'venon' got it?

    I'm sorry I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to post a light hearted comment on a *public forum*. I'll ensure all my posts agree with yours next time, how does that sit with you?
     
  2. Carrie35

    Carrie35 Well-Known Member

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    What you may call light hearted, others call demeaning. It is a message board, no facial expressions, no intonation. If I misread you, I apologize.


    Sounds great...thanks.
     
  3. Kino

    Kino Well-Known Member

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    I actually find it more interesting that of all of the training that is being described by zenpharaohs...the only thing that others see is core training exercises? Please tell me that this isn't the case.
     
  4. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    We're not obsessed. But this is the thread where you can talk about it.

    And I was training very well 25 years ago - we had a former Olympic athlete as conditioning coach. And he was really good. But this is better. If you don't want to take advantage of it? No problem at all we each have our own body and get to do what we want with it.
     
  5. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    I got a chuckle out of that aspect. But I think squats and deadlifts train some of the core too!

    You know, if I had been describing one arm pushups people would recognize right away that is hard stuff. But one leg work doesn't register. This is because legs are used to supporting bodyweight, and lifting one leg doesn't feel like that much of a load at first.

    Is it common for people to lunge their max squat? And that is only partially removing the support of the second leg.

    Once you lift a leg, you now have added a full half of your body weight to the load on the down leg. So you don't need the heavy weight of squats and deadlifts to get that intensity - you can add half the body weight less. So when I have the 34# vest and 2x20# dumbells, one leg is bearing that at the same intensity as if I had two legs down and 244 pounds added. Just about what I can do a 6 rep squat.

    Some people who saw me squatting 240 pounds for reps then they would think "OK that looks like respectable work for that old guy" and when they see me doing single leg deadlifts with 2x20# dumbells they might think "what is wrong with that old guy?" Especially when I am doing it on a bosu ball which makes the exercise look really "unleaded" and with twists that might bring smirks.

    WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK DOES NOT AFFECT THE BENEFIT OF DOING THE EXERCISE.

    I'm not a fan of surfing, but Andre said that he's influenced by how Laird Hamilton trains. I don't know much about Laird Hamilton beyond what I read on the net, but it looks like that guy might be the poster boy for the "functional training" ideas.
     
  6. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    OK So today was very conventional. Row Row Row. Every kind of row. Andre lowered weights and we went for high rep sets. There were some curls and presses, but mostly rows.

    On the high row, we did 35 reps and then active rest with dumbell flys while still in the machine. I wonder if anyone is going to write that one (guy doing dumbell flys in the high row machine) into the "did this happen in your gym" thread.

    We did dumbell curl and press in what I think is the wall squat position. These were not low weight for me, and we could only do ten reps. We also did high-ish weight concentration curls in a squatting position.

    When we did barbell rows, and hang cleans, with active rest of pushups between sets.

    Then we got to the unconventional part. This was a bench press on the floor, but with legs sticking straight up. Andre said the point of this exercise is that we will work up to bench(less) press on two bosus - shoulders on one, and feet on the other, and only balance to stabilize the lift.

    Then we did one I've seen a lot but not done yet - barbell roll outs from knees. I found these a lot easier than I had expected.
     
  7. BigDog

    BigDog Well-Known Member

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    You're kidding right?

    When you call what some consider to be an important training tool a "blow up ball"; compare those who use it to "hampsters and gerbils"; and say that this "crap" wasn't around 15 years ago and nobody was the worse off for it, I think that that it' pretty fair to describe your post as venomous and state that you are demeaning others.

    Just my 2 cents
     
  8. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    Chill, BigDog. It didn't come across as venomous to me. Just light-hearted sarcasm.
     
  9. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    Strength and Conditioning Coach, Alwyn Cosgrove's take on stability balls:


    Cosgrove: "This is the biggest problem in the industry today: jumping on and off every bandwagon there is. The problem is when you "challenge" a training modality or system, it's like challenging someone's freaking religion. People get way too upset about this. But I don't give a shit about upsetting people, so I'll go through a couple:

    Unstable surface training (stability balls, rocker boards, etc): The argument for these tools is that they work the stabilizers, you recruit more total muscle, blah, blah, blah. The argument against these unstable objects is that they prevent more work being done by the prime movers.

    Okay. Let's think it through with some fucking logic: Which are superior, free weights or machines? The answer is most always free weights, right? Why? Because they're unbalanced; you have to control the weight in three dimensions, etc. If this is the reason why free weights are better than machines, then you have to also accept that your reason is because it's an unstable environment you're working in.

    Stability ball stuff falls in that same continuum. You can debate it all you want, but the fact remains that it does have its use. The problem has been that in the past we've over-reacted to it. No one was deadlifting or benching anymore! Everything was on one leg on a wobble disc with a one pound dumbbell. It's not the modality that's the problem — it's our reaction to it."

    Personally, I've never really done much stability work. But his take makes a lot of sense to me. Stability work would seem to have a place in training to me and could potentially be useful. It just shouldn't circumvent traditional methods.
     
  10. pmh

    pmh Well-Known Member

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    jsbrook, yes that is correct, it was meant as light-hearted sarcasm, I won't comment any further on the subject.
     
  11. Nico

    Nico Well-Known Member

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    When they invented barbells someone like you probably said "Why use these stupid gadgets?"

    Stability balls are here to stay. Nobody said you had to use 'em.

    :gl:
     
  12. pmh

    pmh Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to get nasty I'll come over and burst your ball with a knitting needle :lol:
     
  13. pmh

    pmh Well-Known Member

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    Folks please chill out, it was meant as a freaking joke! You must all be on low carbs or is it just that time of the month again :lol:
     
  14. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Different story now. We did a similar exercise last workout. On the floor, get in position as if you just did a crunch but with the feet off the floor with a low pulley on your left side. Hold the pulley handle in both hands directly over your midline and then twist with the obliques against the cable resistance, and then back again. Don't use your arms and don't let the cable return past your midline. We had about 50 pounds of resistance. Only your butt is on the floor, so it's not easy to get traction until you really recruit your obliques. Well OK I can do fifteen. This is slightly harder than the oblique twists on the bosu because the cable pulls directly to the side. Obviously, balance out the set with the other side.

    So there is definitely progress.

    Another one we did is stay in the same position but with the feet toward the cable column. Now put one hand on the waist and do one hand rows with the other hand but don't let yourself spin around on your butt - this limits how fast you can pull and keeps you pulling along the midline of your body, which works the obliques isometrically.

    Both of these work the abs and are a bit nasty to breath because of the position of the core.

    Another one we did: Lunge next to the cable column with the leg away from the column forward. Stay down in the lunge, and reach the hand away from the column down between your legs and grab the cable handle. Pull the handle through your legs and do a lateral raise and then back down to directly under your body. Keep the torso upright and don't let your legs move or swivel under the lateral force of the cable.

    The point of this is that you get a lateral raise, but at the same time, you are pulling your torso over while your legs are split so that it's hard to keep the torso upright.

    The fun never ends.

    By the way I was mentioning that I saw pistol squats in an internet video to the trainer and he says "pistol squat? can you show me one?" So I did a pistol squat with grazing balancing on an upright support with one hand. Hey, I've only been able to do a pistol squat for like a week now. So he says, "hmmmm lessee", then gets up on an inverted bosu and does a flawless one.

    Another thing that came up in the session is that he says that _his_ trainer is an old school power lifter always telling him to skip all the core stability and just do squats and deads and bench.
     
  15. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    :D :tucool:
     
  16. Kino

    Kino Well-Known Member

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    Love reading about your experiences. :tu: On another note, as I was browsing through the Boston Craigslist, I came across this posting in the Jobs section. I just really got a kick out of it...

    "Established trainer looking for other's to help services expand within 46,000 sq. ft. club. MUST BE well versed, or at least interested in HIT resistance training (IART, Mentzer, Superslow, Darden, etc.). No 'core'/explosive/ mystical BS accepted. Willing to teach and nuture as much as necessary."

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  17. Nico

    Nico Well-Known Member

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    hilarious-surprised not to see the word functional in there too. :nod:
     
  18. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Your sig has:

    Goal: Full splits by 9.18 and 1-RM DL 2.25x, SQ 1.75x, B 1.5x, C 1.25x, MP 1.25x BW.

    OK DL, SQ and B I think I know. What is C? Clean? MP is military press?

    At the moment I have SQ 1.53x and B 1.15x

    Maybe there should be numbers that characterize the more functional exercises? What would those be?

    Is the reason some people aren't more impressed with functional exercises that the added weights are less so they don't "sound" impressive?

    I would guess a good one would be single leg dumbell deadlifts with curl and press on a bosu. I can do that with about 1/3 body weight, maybe a little more.

    On the other hand, it's probably not important to figure out how to make this stuff sound impressive. Just do it and you can tell if it's working for you.
     
  19. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    Yep, it's deadlift, squat, bench, clean, military press. I'm not sure if I really follow what you're saying.

    Just goals. Some people track girths, BF%, and bodyweight, I track strength. The sig is a good place to put your goals because you'll see it everytime you encounter one of your own posts. Being impressive was the farthest thing from my mind -- these goals are just stops on my fitness journey and I'm no where near where I want to be.

    Rounding down to the nearest .05, I'm currently 1-RM DL 1.9x, SQ 1.4x, B 1.4x, CL 1.15x, MP 1.05 at a bodyweight of 155. My legs need some work obviously -- benching the same as I squat is not a good thing.
     
  20. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    What I'm saying is sort of:

    It's enough of a cliche' to look at your DL, B and SQ in body weight terms, that you don't even need to say what the letters mean. Everyone knows what SQ 2.5xBW means, and it means squatting pretty heavy.

    What does SLDDOB 0.33xBW mean? Nobody even would know what the letters mean. We don't have a really obvious way to talk about goals for core and stability training, even if we wanted to talk that way.

    So I'm just wondering aloud whether there is a useful way to think about progress of this sort of training?

    Sort like this conversation:

    Powerlifter: I can deadlift 685 pounds.
    Functional training guy: I can juggle four 25 pound olympic plates with my feet while doing crunches on a bosu ball.

    Now either one of these guys could be entitled to say "and what good is that? why bother?" That is the usual line of argument.

    But we do know that the powerlifter who can deadlift 685 pounds is damn strong. And we can compare that to a guy who can deadlift 550 pound For weight lifting, you have a few exercises that are a pretty good measures of how strong you are.

    I would certainly be impressed by a guy who could juggle four 25 pound olympic plates with his feet while doing crunches on a bosu ball. But I would have no idea how far away that is from what I might be able to do.

    For functional training, what would it be that tells you how "functional" you are?
     

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