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Rapid Fat Loss Handbook by Lyle McDonald

Discussion in 'Fat Loss/Cutting' started by NCNBilly, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. NCNBilly

    NCNBilly Well-Known Member

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    Anyone read it? Thoughts?

    I'm considering purchasing it and following a VLCD as the final part of my pre-summer cut. Lyle is very well respected and it seems like a plan I can follow with my schedule.

    I've done the V-diet, but I don't think it was as successful as I'd hoped, so I'm looking for something new this year..
     
  2. Nowhereman

    Nowhereman Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty good but I haven't tried it. Lyle does state in the book that maybe crash dieting isn't the best route but since people will STILL do it then there are better ways at going bout it.

    In the book, people are in 3 general categories. 1 if you are below 15% and 2 if you are above, and I believe 3 if you are above 15 and don't workout.

    If you are a CAT 1 then the recommendation is to do one cyle, which would probably last you no more than 2 weeks.

    He goes into who could benefit from this type of dieting. For the people like us, who probably don't lift competitively, the reason is to cut the fat faster so you can go right into a bulk again.

    I think he does say that you'll lose some LBM but it wouldn't be as bad as someone who just blindly cuts calories.

    It involves whole foods, so it is different from the V-Diet, no liquid, and you are pretty much just eating protein, and a lot of it.

    Hope that helps, it is quite good, I have a friend who tried it out for a while but, like me, doesn't do well on low carbs. Did lose fat though.
     
  3. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    I have all of Lyle's books and am on his site almost daily. Love his stuff. I think as with any type of program, you will see results if you follow it, and in the case of this book, know when to change things up. Two weeks for people with low body fat would probably be enough with this diet. I was training someone for a bodybuilding show and he insisted on doing the diet from this book. All he wanted from me was the training routine. He was already lean to begin with but carrying stubborn fat areas. Like me, he was more ecto than anything. The mistake he made was extending this diet to over 5 weeks despite my futile attempts to get him to eat carbs. This diet has you eating a lot of protein, and unless your carbs are close to zero, that's much more than your body could probably use for lean tissue repair (as in pre contest). Plus you've got to realize the fact that protein doesn't yield as much ATP per increment of time. Or, per UNIT of time. So, basically, my client was oxidizing a lot of protein for energy. Wrong macro's for the wrong job. The final week I had him eating close to 500 grams of carbs per day, but he still could not fill out come contest day. I would say this diet would work fabulously if not abused (follow Lyle's guidelines to a T), and once you hit your goal bodyweight, get into a bulking mode asap.
    If you've already got a lot of existing muscle, are under 15% body fat, you could then probably extend the diet for another week or two beyond the two week recommendation. But no more than that. IMO. :)
     
  4. Nowhereman

    Nowhereman Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, have you tried it? Like I said, I've been on the ropes aobut it just because I feel like crap when I go low carbs for too long (3 days) feel like slow and steady is right for me. Still wouldn't mind giving it a go just so I could see how it is.
     
  5. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    I've gone no carb for as long as 8 weeks, and everything in between, and I've done what is outlined in the book. And for my genetics it doesn't work too well. I have to have carbs otherwise I lose a lot of muscle and flatten out quickly. Additionally, I lose a lot of strength. However, I do get shredded. I'm a carb guy. I like dieting with it to get into the low single digit BF numbers, and I like bulking with high carbs. And I like giving more carbs to clients looking to lose fat because carbs gives you fuel, and fuel is necessary to keep the furnace burning.

    For people who carry more bodyfat, the good thing with a diet like this is that you don't have to do any cardio. Or, at least, you don't have to do nearly as much. I think this diet would work better for someone in the 15-18% BF range who is already lifting heavy, and has good foundational muscle.

    Sure, I'd give it a shot. Why not? :tucool:
     
  6. Nowhereman

    Nowhereman Well-Known Member

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    :p But you kind of confirmed what I believe is happens with me, I do suck on low carb, if you remember while I was with you I was having a hard time at gaining so going to low on carbs puts me in a bad mood and my lifts dramatically go down, especially in the upper body region

    . I'm at close too 300 on workout days and I'm kind of maintaining. Maybe I'll try it when I have some muscle to spare but for right now, I'm fighting and scrapping for every ounce I can get.
     
  7. NCNBilly

    NCNBilly Well-Known Member

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    I think this is about where I am - right around 13.5% to 14%. I do really well on low carb plans, but find them ridiculously hard to follow for any great length of time (over 3 weeks). The 10/10 Waterbury program is almost zero carb (you have a half a banana and 1/3 c of raisins around the workouts) and I respond really well.

    I'm a pure mesomorph, I'm fairly tall but don't gain or lose quickly. I've been eating right around maintenance, maybe 100-200 below and lifting pretty hard (hitting PRs). I'm successfully recomping, but with Summer around the bend, I think the two week program, then returning to recomping might really make a good difference in my physique.
     
  8. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    What I would do is stagger the carbs during your week. If you are maintaining at 300gC per day, I'd do something like this:
    MON- 450gC
    TUE- 200gC
    WED- 200gC
    THU- 200gC
    FRI-450gC
    SAT- 200gC
    SUN- 200gC
    (you could even go lower, like 150gC, and throw in a cheat meal once a week in place of one of your normal meals. A meal with perhaps 3x your normal carb intake.)

    Or, go higher carbs on your lifting days, and half of your usual 300gC on non-lifting days.

    Do this for two weeks, then go back to your baseline.
     
  9. Nowhereman

    Nowhereman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice! I'm going to ride this maintenance out, lifts are still going up. As soon as they stall I'll decide on whether I want to bump them up some more or cut down a bit and try that.
     
    #9 Nowhereman, Mar 17, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  10. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    Nowhere, I apologize in that I didn't see that you are taking in 300 grams carbs on workout days, and lower intake on non-lifting days. I thought that you meant 300gC on ALL days. In that case, I'd use the above example with the 450gC on two of your hardest training days of the week, then on your non-training days I'd decrease to half of what you are using for carbs at the present time. For example, if on your non-training days you are taking in 200gC, i'd go down to 100gC and increase fats by 8-10 grams. This should allow you to drop a bit of bodyfat and maintain muscle for the two weeks.
     
  11. Nathan

    Nathan Active Member

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    Just wanted to say thanks for bringing up this book, I'm currently considering trying this out so it's good to see some discussion of it. I'm lurking on bodyrecomposition.com to try to figure out how other people have done on this diet as well. I'm doing Stronglifts but have back/knee problems that are making it tough to deadlift and squat and run/cardio, and thought it'd be worth trying out RFLH while I let myself heal a bit.

    Is this a pure willpower test? I eat 40/40/20 around 1700kcal [Male, 5' 8" and 177lbs, 23% BF] and I'm very hungry almost constantly. The Cunningham equation puts me at 2800 maintenance before any workouts, so my mind boggles at the thought of dropping to 700 calories on RFLH but the effectiveness is very tempting. Do I just have to get through the transition period and maybe the hunger problem will improve, or do I simply have to be a masochist for a few weeks? Any input is more than welcome. If I do try it, I'll be sure to share results/experiences if anyone is interested. Thanks!
     
    #11 Nathan, Mar 17, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  12. user786

    user786 Active Member

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    your allowed 600-800 kcals in solid protein foods (ie tuna /skinless chicken breast) and unlimited fibrous vegies so if you start adding in loads of veggies u should be o.k for the recommended 2 weeks.
     
  13. Nathan

    Nathan Active Member

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    Awesome, thanks. I'd been digging for more info on that veggie allowance, need to go back and look at the FAQ. I have a rough time feeling full on veggies but I'm sure that would make a significant difference.
     
  14. Jedi

    Jedi Well-Known Member

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    Nathan, do you have a very active, physical job? Otherwise i doubt your maintenance cals before workouts are as high as 2800 per day.
     
  15. NCNBilly

    NCNBilly Well-Known Member

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    I would also not attempt 800 cals if I was trying to rehab an injury - you need calories to rebuild and heal, so in that instance I would eat at maintenance or slightly higher - although your maintenance without lifting and cardio is probably much smaller than you think.

    Typically with these types of low calorie plans, you need to adjust your workout routines to make the short and intense, since you'll run out of steam pretty quickly and you have very limited amounts of nutrients for recovery.
     
  16. Nathan

    Nathan Active Member

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    Jedi, thanks for the input. The results of the equation surprised me as well. I've really had bad luck with a huge spread of caloric estimates from all the online calculators. I'm disappointed since it's taking me longer to dial it in, but I'm making adjustments and successfully dropping weight. Here's my Cunningham results in case I screwed up somehow:
    Code:
    [FONT="Courier New"]
    Weight:           		176.00      
    Weight in KG:    		80.00
    Body Fat %:     		22.00%
    Fat Mass in KG: 		17.60
    Lean Mass in KG: 		62.40
    Activity Level:  		1.4 (lowest level for a desk job)
    Protein Level: 			.1 (1g/lb)
    Resting Metabolic Rate: 	1,872.80
    RMR * Activity Factor: 		2,621.92
    Thermic Effect of Protein: 	187.28
    Total Before Exercise: 		2,809.20
    [/FONT]
    Despite this, I've actually been eating around 1500 cal/day (40/40/20) and that's slowly dropping weight. This result seemed too high to consider, it just added to my overall calorie confusion :) Online calculators range from 1900 to 2300 or so, and the simple 14 or 18*BW estimates also put me high (2400+). The high numbers just make me fear I'm eating too little and could be losing more weight if I ate more.

    NCNBilly, thanks to you as well for the input. I think I've caught the injury very early, so I hope to recover quickly, but you're right about disrupting the body during healing, I'll keep that in mind and delay starting this diet, if I end up trying it at all.

    Thanks again for the feedback, it's appreciated.
     
  17. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    I've been getting more and more PM's about this thread, so please allow me to state some thoughts here. But first, I'll have to say that I'm not Lyle McDonald and I'm sure he can give better guidance with his RFL diet. :nod:

    My opinion is that a keto type plan will work very well the more 'out-of-shape' one is. However, once you begin getting into shape and your training intensity begins to build, the more inferior it becomes as a diet choice once you start training harder and/or heavier. These diets (like the RFL) are not meant to be for long term. They're just meant for short bursts to break through a plateau. Once you begin doing it for a length of time and add cardio into the mix, you'll encounter some longer term setbacks which include thyroid disfunction, killing testosterone levels, etc.

    I'm not against doing something like the RFL, but keep in mind that it is just one method among many to get the desired results. And if you do it....know when to say "when". :)
     
  18. Nowhereman

    Nowhereman Well-Known Member

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    LOL, sorry Mast, may be my fault. Either way, you can find plenty of info on the RFL diet on Lyle's site, forums.lylemcdonald.com. There is a section devoted to it but you would need to get to book to run it effectively and correctly.
     
  19. NCNBilly

    NCNBilly Well-Known Member

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    I've read a good bit on Lyle's site and changed my mind - I've ordered the Ultimate Diet 2.0 instead since it really fits my goals better. I may get the RFL book as well, but I think for where I am - dropping 10-15 lbs and maintaining my lean mass is more of a smarter goal and I'm not in any hurry. Seems like the results I'm looking for should be attainable in a 10-12 week cycle which puts me right where I want to be.
     
  20. Nathan

    Nathan Active Member

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    Yeah, I broke through my plateau as well, without RFL, so I'm going to stick to the current plan instead for a while.
     

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