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Possibly Overtraining? *routine inside*

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Dubrock, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    I happen to agree with you. But people do get very results on muscle group splits as well. Food and rest are still essential. When splitting muscle groups which I don't love doing, I personally still prefer to have a days rest betwen workouts. For example: Monday = legs, wednesday = chest + some shoulders, Friday = back, Sunday = arms. Hit it all hard, heavy, and intensely. And get out of there. Not my favorite way of training. But it works too.
     
  2. Timbermiko

    Timbermiko Well-Known Member

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    I agree...
     
  3. COBRA

    COBRA Well-Known Member

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    The magnitude of DOMS does not reflect the magnitude of muscle damage.
    DOMS is not necessarily an indication of an high intensity workout.
    DOMS is associated with conditioning.

    whether or not a given amount of weight and reps will produce growth depends on what the muscle tissue has been conditioned to from previous workouts.Also,you must keep in mind that growth does not occur within the gym.

    As for how long a given workout should last,this is usually correlated to volume/intensity.Some of my workouts last 1.5hrs.
     
  4. badgolfer

    badgolfer Well-Known Member

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    what do you mean by DOMS is associated with conditioning?
     
  5. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    No one know what causes DOMS, I believe changes in routine. But it has nothing to do with muscle growth or intensity.
     
  6. COBRA

    COBRA Well-Known Member

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    DOMS is not an indicator of the effectiveness of a workout,the effectiveness depends on what type of workout is imposed on tissue that is at a certain level of conditioning (i.e. resistant to damage). e.g. when i first started training i was forever suffering DOMS due to lack of conditioning.These days DOMS is a rare occurrence.

    I think you are missing the point.

    I was stating that DOMS does not reflect the magnitude of muscle damage/high intensity work.
    Reference:
    Nosaka K, Newton M, Sacco P. Delayed-onset muscle soreness does not reflect the magnitude of eccentric exercise-induced muscle damage. Scand J Med Sci Sports. 2002 Dec;12(6):337-46.


    You are right,there's nothing definitive on what "causes" DOMS (although studies show several main causes that contribute e.g. Tissue damage/Calcium accumulation/The immune system).However,we do know that DOMS is the result of exercise,especially eccentric exercise.
     
  7. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

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    Wow you guys are fast! I can hardly keep up.

    Rtestes, jessie answered my question on what needed to be cleared up. ( Biggest muscle groups first then go into isolation. )

    On the topic of soreness. . .I usually don't work the same muscle groups the day after so even if my pecs/delts/triceps ARE blasted from the workout before, it does not hinder my performance on my next workout, since I wont be using those muscles.

    If the great gains comment was referring to me. . .I'll just say the first time I ever stepped into a gym was last year. I lived a very sedentary lifestyle playing videogames most of the time and basically not moving much at all. My meals usually consisted of dinner, and that was it.

    Last year when I started, I didn't know anything. I would go in and do cardio, then abs, and then a work a body part for an hour. I was eating less than 2000 calories and seeing zero gains. About December, I stumbled upon this site, did a lot of research during my Christmas Break, and in January, started my 'official' foray into weight training. I've been bulking since then and I went from 176lbs to roughly 199 since then with slightly higher BF%. The amazing gains not only come to me in muscle size, but the way my lifestyle changed.

    I have a few more questions concerning my routine. . .
    -Should I move Deadlifts to my leg day? Are there any other resources with info on how to perform proper deadlifts, other than BB.com?
    -How would I achieve wider lats? Someone at the gym mentioned Bent over Barbell rows, yet, my lower back hurt the first time I tried them. Suggestions?

    Thanks to everyone who has helped so far! :tu:
     
  8. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    If bent over rows continue give your lower back problems you could try either t-bar rows or incline lever rows, if you do not know what these machines look like go to(look under freeweight equipment)
    http://www.flexfitness.com/

    As far as deadlifts go I do them with back, and do stiff legged deadlifts with legs. I have no reasoning behind this it's just the way I have always done them.
     
  9. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

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    Ok, there is an incline lever row at the Gold's Gym I go to. When I get into that machine, I press my chest into the pad but do I bend my legs or keep them as straight as possible?
     
  10. badgolfer

    badgolfer Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree with you. Solely for the fact that I know many people are sore after every workout. Many people here and friends of mine get sore after every workout even if they have done the workout 100 times before and they are much more highly conditioned than I am. I am like you, I never get sore unless I introduce a new movement but I believe we are the exception to the rule. In this case I am glad to be the exception.
     
  11. COBRA

    COBRA Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong,i'm not saying that only beginners suffer DOMS.Maybe this will make it somewhat clearer.



    Starting a workout program can be challenging. Making the time to exercise, creating a balanced routine, and setting goals are hard enough, but add to that the muscle soreness that comes with adapting to that regimen, and it may be difficult to stay on track.

    Chances are, you won't be leaping out of bed to get to the gym when it hurts to hold your arm up to brush your teeth.

    After participating in some kind of strenuous physical activity, particularly something new to your body, it is common to experience muscle soreness, say experts.

    "Muscles go through quite a bit of physical stress when we exercise," says Rick Sharp, professor of exercise physiology at Iowa State University in Ames.
    "Mild soreness just a natural outcome of any kind of physical activity," he says. "And they're most prevalent in beginning stages of a program."

    Exercise physiologists refer to the gradually increasing discomfort that occurs between 24 and 48 hours after activity as delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), and it is perfectly normal.

    "Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is a common result of physical activity that stresses the muscle tissue beyond what it is accustomed to," says David O. Draper, professor and director of the graduate program in sports medicine/athletic training at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah.

    To be more specific, says Draper, who's also a member of the heat-responsive pain council, delayed onset muscle soreness occurs when the muscle is performing an eccentric or a lengthening contraction. Examples of this would be running downhill or the lengthening portion of a bicep curl.

    "Small microscopic tears occur in the muscle," he says.
    The mild muscle strain injury creates microscopic damage to the muscle fibers. Scientists believe this damage, coupled with the inflammation that accompanies these tears, causes the pain.

    "The aches and pains should be minor," says Carol Torgan, an exercise physiologist and fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine, "and are simply indications that muscles are adapting to your fitness regimen."

    It's also a process of muscle conditioning. Torgan says delayed onset muscle soreness also has a "repeated bouts" effect.

    "If someone does an activity, they will be inoculated for a few weeks to a few months -- the next time they do the activity, there will be less muscle tissue damage, less soreness, and a faster strength recovery."

    This is why athletes often cross-train and vary their routines to continue to challenge and develop their muscle strength.

    ------------------------

    This is why i stated "depends on what type of workout is imposed on tissue that is at a certain level of conditioning (i.e. resistant to damage)." I then gave an example: "when i first started training i was forever suffering DOMS due to lack of conditioning.These days DOMS is a rare occurrence." A rare occurrence compared with when i first begun training.
     
    #71 COBRA, Aug 11, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2005
  12. bradh

    bradh Well-Known Member

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    I don't get sore very much at this point, i'm about 10 weeks in with about 6 weeks going heavy. Only thing that gets me sore now is DL's and leg work because i'm builiding weight pretty quickly i guess this muscle memory is working. Its great to know that you don;t have to start from grond zero if you stop like i did for a few years.
     
  13. glenn_001

    glenn_001 Well-Known Member

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    I get Doms after each and every workout even doing the same exercise each week which i rarely do.
    The only time i stopped getting doms was when i tried fullbody for a month, which would have been from the extra frequency of training the same musclegroups.
    Curiously more frequency less doms and also less progress.
     

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