1. Have you installed the new JSF Mobile app? Check out all the details here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. One account & one avatar for all of JSF. Unified login and profile. Forum alerts on the main site, and more. Check out the details here: Forum & main site unified account feature is live!
    Dismiss Notice

Possibly Overtraining? *routine inside*

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Dubrock, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    4
    Not wanting you to "debate" or even seeking your response. What you do is up to you as always, you aren't the one seeking advice. And Durock has his choice to decide if changes need to be made.
     
  2. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    10,230
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  3. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    10,230
    Likes Received:
    0

    Absolutely. But I am also entitled to give MY advise.
     
  4. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Glenn and rtestes on this one. Some do very well on higher volume workouts. I'm not against it. Others do not. I think it's the first thing to look at when someone is struggling to get through workouts consistently every couple weeks. I also think that, while some do very well with higher volume, there are better ways to get the most bang for your buck. Dubrock, I'm going to go find and post Chad Waterbury's Set/Rep Bible. These are guidelines that can help you formulate a very effective program that will result in strength gains and hypterrophy (assuming proper diet) without burning you out.
     
  5. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Set/Rep Bible . When creating a program, I recommend sticking to mostly compound movements and a few hard sets of isolation at the end of the workout. One thing: I believe that using really heavy weights and lfiting in lower rep ranges is ideal for improving max strength along with hypertrophy. But if you haven't been lifting for a good many months and don't have a decent bench of strength, stick with 8+ reps for now.

    Here is a very good article by Christian Thibadeau that complement's CW's and further cyrstallizes a solid approach to training.
     
  6. badgolfer

    badgolfer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    7,012
    Likes Received:
    7
    I think the bottom line here is YOU are tiring out so YOU may be overtraining. Others may not become overtrained on this workout and some will. RTE likes hit so he will advise that Doordude knows what works for his as well as JS. Cut back and see how you feel.

    One easy way to check if you are overtraining. Check your heart rate in the morning. Dont even swing your feet out of bed before checking it. If it high you are probably overtraining. It might take you a couple days to remember to check it. Who the hell thinks about their heart rate first thing.
     
  7. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    2
    This may or may not be true, I don't know. However, I do know that I personally just do not enjoy full-body, all compound movement workouts. (Is that what Waterbury recommends?)

    Even if HIT or whatever other routines there are, were 150% more effective than a higher volume, more traditional split routines (which I doubt), I wouldn't do them. It may sound foolish, but the bottom line is I look forward to my workouts because I tailor them to what I enjoy. I've done full body routines before and I would dread them. If it's less effective to use a higher volume routine in one sense, it surely becomes more effective in the sense that I actually enjoy going, have full motivation and rarely miss a workout.

    And let's face it, higher volume routines DO work.

    Just throwing my perspective out there.
     
  8. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't trying to 'sell' anyone on Waterbury. He is a proponent of full-body workouts. But those are not his only programs. He has upper-lower body splits and other programs as well. The Set/Rep article that I linked is actually not a training program at all. It is merely guidelines for loading schemes, intensity (% 1RM), rest interval, and total reps per muscle group for various goals. It can be applied to any training program: full-body, 4-5 day muscle-group split, or otherwise. I suggest that everyone take a look at this article and CT's that I linked. It doesn't mean that anyone has to restructure their training based on them. But there's a lot of good information there. We should always seek to learn more.
     
  9. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    10,230
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess that's the bottom line. Whatever works, works. I too enjoy a full blown, high volume workout. They keep me motivated. (even though I don't consider my routine "high volume, but comparitively speaking, maybe) Well said Tricker!!
     
  10. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's a funny thing you mention HIT. I have been following a lot of the advice in that program. ( Slow controlled reps, 2 second positives, 3 second negatives, focused breathing and form, etc. )

    I know that Bench Press works out triceps, but isn't it more of a Chest exercise? ( According to Milos Sarcev at least. )

    By Cable Decline I ment "Cable Decline Chest Cross." I abbreviate it in my notebook.

    And yes my triceps are really sore after that workout. But so are my pecs. The only body part that is never really sore, are my shoulders.
     
  11. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    10,230
    Likes Received:
    0
    And yes my triceps are really sore after that workout. But so are my pecs. The only body part that is never really sore, are my shoulders.[/QUOTE]


    It's good your tri's and pecs are sore. What the hell, throw in another couple of sets for your shoulders. Ha! Ha!
     
  12. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yes of course the bench press should be mainly chest, but triceps are involved in all the bolded exercises. It adds up. Go to Exrx.net and find out how many of the exercises involve triceps.

    You also have a strange way you jump around in your exercises if that is the order of them. Why?

    Dips - chest or tricep
    Bench Press - chest
    Lateral Raise - shoulder
    Overhead Tricep Extension - tricep
    Side Lateral Raise - Shoulder
    Cable Decline - chest
    Military Press - shoulder
    Tricep Pressdown - tricep
    Rear Lateral Raise - shoulder

    Now here is what I would recommend trying to keep things similiar to yours. Do 2 sets of 8-10 reps using 80% of 1 maxrep. Minimum rest 30-60 sec between super sets, just enough to change equipment.

    (cable decline or flies
    (Supersetted with
    (Bench Press

    rest 90 secs

    (Lateral raise
    (supersetted with
    (bent over lateral raise

    90 sec rest

    (Standing military press

    30-60 sec rest

    (Tricep pressdown

    (Tricep dip - elbows in

    2 supersets for chest or 4 sets
    2 supersets for shoulder or 4 sets
    2 sets for shoulder
    4 sets for triceps

    total: 14 sets

    :gl:
     
  13. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    2
    I wondered the same thing.
     
  14. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    10,230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seemed a little odd to me too.
     
  15. COBRA

    COBRA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    The problem is most beginners don't understand the relationship between volume/intensity.
     
  16. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess I shouldn't have listened to my one of my friends. . . :lol:

    I split the exercises up that way because I thought it would be a bad idea to go from Dips to say pressdown. I belived I should give my muscles some time to rest by doing an exercise that limits or does not use that muscle at alll.

    Just so I am clear on this point. . .It is more beneficial, in terms of muscle mass gain, to totally blast the muscle by working similar muscle groups back to back as opposed to my old method, correct?

    Does this recruit more muscle fibers or something? It would seem like it would help with endurance as opposed to building mass. . .
     
  17. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2005
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    0

    I believe Tennis ball was not posting a workout just a list of some really good compound lifts and what muscle groups you should do them for.
     
  18. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can someone please clarify the point I made in the post above? I don't want to revamp my current workout if I don't have any reasoining to.
     
  19. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2005
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do your exercise in order of bodypart from the biggest to the smallest. For instance based on you current training split on day one do your chest exercises, then shoulder, and then tris. Next workout do quad, then hamstrings, and then calves. For you finall workout do back, and then biceps.
     
  20. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    4
    Please include a quote from the post you are replying to, That way we will better understand what you are referring to. What revamp are you thinking about? or did Jessie answer your concerns?
     

Share This Page