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Possibly Overtraining? *routine inside*

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Dubrock, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

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    I've been working out since January and have been seeing amazing gains. Yet after about three to five weeks of back-to-back training, my weight AND reps start to drop off. . .is this normal?

    Here is my routine:
    Monday: Pecs/Delts/Tris
    Dips
    Bench Press
    Lateral Raise
    Overhead Tricep Extension
    Side Lateral Raise
    Cable Decline
    Military Press
    Tricep Pressdown
    Rear Lateral Raise

    Tuesday Abs/ Core Stabilty
    Decline Crunches
    Side Bends
    Swiss Ball Crunches
    Varying Core Stability Exercises

    Wednesday Legs
    Squats
    Leg Curls
    Seated Calf Raises
    Leg Press
    Standing Calf Raise
    Leg Extension

    Thursday
    Same as Tuesday

    Friday Back/Biceps
    Deadlifts ( Not stiff legged )
    Cable Rows
    Hammer Curls
    Shoulder Shrugs
    Lat Pulldown
    Concentration Curls
    Dumbell Rows

    This is about the normal amount of exercises I do per session, lasting a little over 1 hour everytime I train.
    I do each exercise for 3 sets usually going 12-8-failure, except for the Ab exercises and squats ( I do 4 sets of squats. )

    I rest on Saturdays and Sundays, but is this too much volume?
     
  2. tennisball

    tennisball Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a lot of isolation exercises and quite a bit of overlap. I personally would spend more time on the compounds each day (more weight, more volume) and end with one or two isolation exercises.



     
  3. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    It's not a bad idea at all to take a back-off week every couple weeks. Maybe after a month of normal training or if you rotate the way you train after each training cycle. In this back-off week, you might cut the volume in half but keep the intensity. I also recommend weeks off or active recovery. Active recovery would be remaining active doing activities you enjoy. Maybe sports and some cardio. Pushups and situps if you wish. But no intense weight training. You could try one or both of these methods. If you're employing back-off weeks, you will probably need to take time off or active recovery less frequently. I don't really use back-off weeks. But I take an active recovery week about every 6 weeks. Usually, I switch up my training when I go back.
     
  4. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

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    I usually weight lift for a period of seven to eight weeks, using this routine, then I rest for one week. I work during the day, so I get plenty of cardio there :D ( I took a pedometer to work, and I average at least two miles of walking, a day. )

    I also change the routine after those one week rest periods. Can anyone give me some more compound movements for my workout?




    QUOTE=jsbrook]It's not a bad idea at all to take a back-off week every couple weeks. Maybe after a month of normal training or if you rotate the way you train after each training cycle. In this back-off week, you might cut the volume in half but keep the intensity. I also recommend weeks off or active recovery. Active recovery would be remaining active doing activities you enjoy. Maybe sports and some cardio. Pushups and situps if you wish. But no intense weight training. You could try one or both of these methods. If you're employing back-off weeks, you will probably need to take time off or active recovery less frequently. I don't really use back-off weeks. But I take an active recovery week about every 6 weeks. Usually, I switch up my training when I go back.[/QUOTE]
     
  5. tennisball

    tennisball Well-Known Member

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    Here's a good list I stole from a Chad Waterbury spreadsheet:

    Chest
    Incline Bench Presses (BB or DB)
    Flat Bench Presses (BB or DB)
    Decline Bench Presses (BB or DB)
    Wide-Grip Dips

    Back
    Upright or Horizontal Rows
    Pull-Ups or Pull-Downs (Pronated, Supinated or Semi-Supinated Grip)

    Deltoids
    Standing Military Presses (BB or DB, Pronated, Supinated, Semi-Supinated Grip)
    Seated Military Presses (BB or DB, Pronated, Supinated, Semi-Supinated Grip)

    Quads
    High-Bar Back Squats
    Hack Squats
    Front Squats

    Lower Back / Hips
    Traditional or Sumo Deadlifts
    Power Cleans or Snatches
    Good Mornings
     
  6. Timbermiko

    Timbermiko Well-Known Member

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  7. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    No way. I totally disagree. I use a routine very similar to that and get great results.3 excercicse per bodypart X3 sets is NOT too much. Of course this depends on the intensity of your workouts however I just can't see it becoming a problem. I think people are way too concerned about overtraining and their results are hindered by it.
    If this is a regular thing and not just a "bad day" isolated session I would go with J.S and take a backoff week. Just lighten up on intensity. I would NOT suggest you take time off every time you feel a little weak.
     
    #7 doordude42, Aug 9, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2005
  8. glenn_001

    glenn_001 Well-Known Member

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    As a beginner you can get away with that much volume no problem, but as you become more advanced your results will slow down so you have to re adjust your routine to accordingly.
    It depends on your goals but you current routine is not adequate for gaining mass efficiently.
     
  9. COBRA

    COBRA Well-Known Member

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    Too much volume imho.If you want better results using five day split go with what tennisball "stole" from Chad Waterbury i.e. low volume.I would use 2/3 sets at 80% (rep range anywhere from 6-10).
     
  10. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    Nonsense! Nine sets per bodypart is nowhere near "too much volume".
    It is by all means adequate for efficient mass gain.Myself along with many, many training partners have used routines similar to his with excellent gains. Granted, routines should be varied over time but this particular "attack" has always yielded good results. Always!!! I in particular achieve my best gains on this routine and i've been hanging around gyms for well over 30 yrs.
     
  11. Dubrock

    Dubrock Well-Known Member

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    I'm not very familiar with most of these exercises. . .but will I be hitting my rear/side deltoids with the shoulder workout and my calves with that leg workout?
     
  12. glenn_001

    glenn_001 Well-Known Member

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    Did you even read his comments?
    This is normal for a high volume routine.
    9 sets per bodypart may not be too much for some but 9 sets per bodypart 5 x per week would be for a lot of trainers and really isnt necessary.On monday he is doing 9 exercises x 3 sets each i believe, 27 sets...., 19 sets on wednesday, 21 sets on friday not to mention the ab routines in between, how can you say thats not too much volume? :confused:

    Dubrock,
    If you like that routine i would keep it to 2 sets per exercise, that should be more than enough with the amount of exercises you do.
    Try to increase the intensity in each set rather than increasing the amount of sets and exercises and you should have continued progress. :tu:
     
  13. glenn_001

    glenn_001 Well-Known Member

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    I would hang onto your lateral raises and calf exercises aswell as those listed. :tu:
     
  14. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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  15. glenn_001

    glenn_001 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree, but as you should know the muscle growth happens outside the gym, training everyday you dont give it a chance.
     
  16. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    Yes, if you're working the SAME bodypart.
    Glenn trust me. I respect your views. You're obviously knowledgeable when it comes to training. I just think people are way too paranoid about overtraining. Granted, overtraining is very real and is detrimental in the big picture but I believe the recreational bodybuilder such as myself doesn't come close to the intensity and duration of excercise required to "overtrain" unless as I said, your doing the same bodypart back to back without allowing time for recup. Just my opinion.
     
  17. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this advice. I think you're leg and back day looks okay, but your first day of 27 sets is a bit too much. This is why I could never do a 3 day split. I could never work more than 2 muscle groups in a day if doing a traditional split like yours because then to get all the exercises I want in, I'd be doing way too many sets for the day.

    There are a lot of compound exercises in there which is good, but they're also all over the place. Start with your compounds and end with your isolations. So move your tricep and bicep exercises the end of the workouts and do your laterals after your dips and presses.

    Also consider making a 4th day and moving shoulders out of Day 1 or losing a tricep exercise at the minimum.
     
  18. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    You are so right, Glenn. Nine sets when one, done right, might do the same job?? If I went into 9 sets a body part, I would first try to pick a weight that would allow me to finish what I started. I would lower weight to a level probally 60% from 1repmax. Even then I might find myself cheating, throwing the weights to finish the sets. The latic acid buildup from the endurance effort would cause long rest between sets. I would have to spend the biggest part of workout resting, might change name to restout if not burnout.
     
  19. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    Dubrock,


    Monday: Pecs/Delts/Tris
    Dips
    Bench Press
    Lateral Raise
    Overhead Tricep Extension
    Side Lateral Raise
    Cable Decline
    Military Press
    Tricep Pressdown
    Rear Lateral Raise


    The bold exercises work the triceps. You must have some real good triceps. Aren't they overworked in this workout.

    What is a cable decline? Is this the order you do exercises?
     
    #19 RTE, Aug 9, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2005
  20. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    There is no way i'm getting lured back into a debate over HIT. RTE i'm sure you know what i'm referring to. You guys do your thing and i'll do mine. Whatever works for you.

    P.S. I just can't help myself. There's no F 'ing way 1 set is gonna do it for ME!!!!!!! Plain and simple.
     

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