1. JSF is shutting down soon. Please see this page for details.
    Dismiss Notice

overtraining?

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by s4099731, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. s4099731

    s4099731 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi everybody im a new member here; the forum looks great! lots of great information but i couldnt really find exactly what i was looking for so im posting this question.

    I've been working out now for strength training and bulking for about 2 and a half years, and iv progressively seen results that i am happy with. ( i trained every second day so roughly 3-4 times a week).

    about 5 months ago i decided to increase the intensity of my training schedule, and split training for different muscle groups over different days. my training schedule is as follows:

    Day 1: Back and Biceps:
    Wide grip chin ups with 10kg added weight (3 sets of 8)
    Close grip chin ups with 10 kg added weight (3 sets of 8)
    Bent over wide grip barbell row; 62.5kg (3 sets of 8)
    One-arm dumbell bent over row; 22.5kg (3 sets of 8)

    E-Z bar barbell curls; 32.5kg (3sets of 8)
    wide grip barbell curls; 30kg (3 sets of 8)
    preacher curl; 35kg (3 sets of 8)
    hammer curls; 12.5kg (3 sets of 8)

    Day 2: chest and triceps:
    Bench press; 90kg (3sets of 8)
    incline hammer strength press; (3sets of 8)
    dumbell fly cross-over; (3sets of 8)
    incline bench (3sets of 8)

    triceps cable pulldown (3sets of 8)
    skull crushers with E-Z bar (3sets of 8)
    narrow-grip bench press for triceps (3sets of 8)
    dips with 10kg assisted weight (3sets of 8)

    Day 3: shoulders, upper trapezius and abs
    shoulder press (3sets of 8)
    seated dumbell lateral raise 12.5kg each arm(3sets of 8)
    bent over dumbell lateral raise for posterior deltoid (3sets of 8)
    standing dumbell lateral raise (3sets of 8)
    bent over dumbell lateral raise (3sets of 8)

    upright row; 35kg (3sets of 8)
    shrugs; 37.5kg each arm (3sets of 8)

    various sit ups

    Day 4: legs
    smith machine squats (3sets of 8)
    seated leg press (3sets of 8)
    seated quadriceps extensions (3sets of 8)
    seated hamstring curls (3sets of 8)
    calf raises (3sets of 8)


    I eat fairly consistently and healthily, and i take an adequate protein supplement, but I feel that my body is no longer responding to the workouts! Its almost as though I'm getting smaller in bulk size, with the greater intensity work out!?!

    I fear that i may be overtrainning; could somebody please advise? I've taken about 5 days off training to see if this helps, but i'd really like to get back into it again!

    I'm 22 years old, weigh 67kg, and I'd really like to pack on about 5kg's... but i've hit a wall!! help!!

    cheers in advance for any advice!
     
  2. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    4
    How tall are you? How many calories are you consuming a day?

    My personal belief is you are performing too many exercises for too many sets. But I can't say you are overtraining. It is a good idea to take a week off every 10 weeks or so.

    More is not always better. Intensity is better measured by increases in weights used. I personally believe splits aren't beneficial for the average person but it seems everyone does them. Describe that wall you hit?
     
  3. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    21
    Yup, I'd answer rtestes' questions first off. Additionally, intensity is usually not measured by the amount of volume you perform in a workout, but how much effort you are putting into each rep/set.

    You are doing 12 sets of biceps after your back workout, and 12 sets of tri's after your chest workout. You are doing 18 sets for shoulders, yet only 6 sets for quads. Without knowing how much you are eating (rtestes referred to this) it looks like your arms are extending past the point of any recovery, since muscle growth happens outside the gym.

    If you are going after mass, I'd decrease your workout volume by 65%-75%. Put deadlifts in there on back day, and barbell squats on leg day.

    If I remember correctly, the most intense leg workout I ever had consisted of 1 tri-set, with no rest between exercises:

    Leg Extensions: 1 set to failure with pulses
    followed immediately by
    Hack Squats: 1 set of 8 reps to failure
    followed immediately by
    Squats: 1 set of 11 reps to failure

    Total time: 8 minutes

    Took me about 2 weeks before I could train legs again.
     
  4. s4099731

    s4099731 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for the speedy reply; really appreciate the help!

    I'm 169cm (about 5'6'' i think) tall.

    In terms of calorie intake i'm not quite sure (i havn't taken the time to calculate it, but i generally eat quite large servings and snack lightly throughout the day). thus far I haven't noticed any significant gains in non-muscular weight when i'm commited to training.

    the wall i've hit could be described as this: I'm training harder than i've ever trained before, for longer durations, and to the point where i'm fatigued after each session (e.g. the trained muscle cramps if i try move it to the point of maximum contraction e.g. cramping of the biceps if i flex the elbow, or cramping of my pectoralis group if i reach across my chest), but i feel like i'm losing bulk size; the opposite of what i want at this point!

    does this sound common?

    thanks heaps in advance!
     
  5. Eagle Tree

    Eagle Tree Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    First I'd say don't fall victim to "feeling" like you are gaining or losing. I did that for a long time. Measurements such as with a myotape really makes it so you know. I know that it's possible to continue to recomp so it can be hard to tell on the scale, but most likely there should be some scale gain too. You'll see that with most of the folks here, I have a bit of trouble with that. That brings me to the second point. Diet really can be a problem if you're prone not to eat enough. It takes more work to keep the calories coming so you gain than it does to workout, at least for me. Eating enough is a way bigger problem than most give it credit for.

    But the major point I'd make is I was pushing like you are and not getting anywhere. I backed way off and forced myself to just work a good routine (I adopted HST but there must be others like this), well calculated on increases. It's all I can do to keep myself from doing additional sets but with just doing the routine of 7 compounds (Squat, Dead, Rows, Chins, Dips, Bench and Mil) plus two ISOs (calfs and traps), I'm gaining. The workouts are short and I'm not burning out (I get only mild doms by the 48 hour period where it's time to workout again). I am doing it full body too and I'd sure agree with rtestes, splits don't work for a some of us at all (no implication to you, I don't know obviously). With a full body compound routine, you may find 3 days a week is just right. Frequency without excessive volume, a well planned weight progression, and self-control to trust the program, works much better for me.

    Again though, you need metrics of some sort because you need to know if something is working. I've been just using the myotape and a couple of easy measurements. I can say for sure when I'm losing or gaining and that helps to target what I need to be doing.
     
  6. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    4
    OK I was wondering about the calories. You increase them to gain, you lower them to lose weight. There are good and there are not so good workouts. But diet is the first concern, you won't gain weight until you take in more calories then you burn in your workout. If you aren't counting calories, you don't know what is happening. I suggest you look at diet, first.

    The advice you have been given by others on workout certainly was good. Work your big muscles more than small ones like arms and chest. Don't ignore them just don't overdo them and make them equals to the larger muscles - legs, hips, back, and shoulders. Cramps may go to diet or dehydration. Drink plenty of water.

    Read all the stickies in beginner forum.
     

Share This Page