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My Bench Shirt Exploded!

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Eman7673, May 14, 2006.

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  1. Fender

    Fender Well-Known Member

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    Did you call NASA to get that info?:D :D
     
  2. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Nah. I used Google to get this.

    At the time of that writing, (Aug 9, 2004), the raw record was 713, (Scot Mendelson) and with a shirt he's done 1008.
     
  3. JoeSchmo

    JoeSchmo Well-Known Member

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    Well, the reason is that the golf clubs don't hit/aim the ball for you, and the running shoes don't propel you down the track! Bench shirts actually do some of the lifting for you. When I read stories about how Gene Rychlak had to abandon a bench attempt because he couldn't get an 800 pound bench press down to his chest, I just bust out laughing...as do most people. A proper analogy would be that of a swimmer attaching a little motorized propeller onto his back, and then claiming that his record is valid because everyone else also uses a motor.

    The problem I have is that future records are going to be based on the shirt technology rather than the person's bench press strength. It then becomes less a contest of strength, and more a contest of who can develop the best combination of strength + equipment savvy -- with the equipment playing a bigger and bigger role as it continues to advance. I think it is pretty safe to say, that some years down the line when somebody inevitably bench presses 1200 pounds, it won't be because he is a better bencher than Scot Mendelson, it will be because he has the advantage of a much better shirt. THAT is why most people don't like this assisted lifting nonsense. Records should be broken because a more talented/stronger/better competitor comes along, not because some geeks in a lab invented a better shirt.
     
  4. jwdiho

    jwdiho Well-Known Member

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    That's assuming Mendelson can't go and use the very same shirt. Level playing field.
     
  5. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Unless they have the same exact measurements, he can't.
     
  6. betastas

    betastas Well-Known Member

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    Or he turns 80. Remember, records will be broken after he can no longer compete.
     
  7. Banditfist

    Banditfist Well-Known Member

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    Well, crap. All those powerlifters and bodybuilders have different genetics than me. Those raw lifts should have an asterick by them because of this.

    Or, shouldn't they test their testosterone levels and allow those who are below the highest level to juice to get their levels up so it is a level playing field? Or, we should use the same Zenph ratio to compute how much each lifter really lifted.
     
  8. cajunman

    cajunman Well-Known Member

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    First things first -

    Eman, kick ass on Saturday!! Take names and OWN THAT WEIGHT!!

    Now, back to the wall-banging...

    Zen, what is the point? I mean, really... Why are people in this thread so peevish about a sport in which they don’t even COMPETE (hell, don't even spectate)? Is it that hard to just admit that EVERY SPORT has modifications to the clothing/attire/equipment/environment that enhance the performance of the sport itself? Why are the “Zen Purists” (no offense) applying this “if you can’t do it naked, it doesn’t count” attitude to powerlifting and no other sport? I could see if someone was just a crotchety old school type who said runners should run in leather shoes with flat vulcanized rubber soles, swimmers should wear cloth suits and swim in pools with nylon rope lane lines, golfers should use wooden clubs, skiers should use wooden skis, pole vaulters should use wooden poles, skaters should use one-piece nonhinged skates, etc. etc. – but they’re NOT. The only sport that they apply this zen-pure philosophy to is powerlifting, and it seems to only be to put down powerlifters.

    Gear is controversial WITHIN powerlifting. That’s understandable. WE are the competitors. Much like the bodysuits being controversial within swimming for a time, but…I don’t see anyone on these boards frothing at the mouth over Ian Thorpe’s records not being a “valid achievement” or being “false”…(and when was the last time YOU went to the pool or beach in a fitted bodysuit?) Damn, I got to pull teeth just to get the runners to admit that their shoes make a difference, now it’s quibbling over “well, it’s not as much difference as a multi-ply canvas bench shirt”…or “well, the average American thinks bench shirts are stupid”…(and what does the average American think about whey protein, creatine, six meals a day?)

    Simple fact…there are raw feds. There are raw world records. There are single-ply feds. There are single-ply world records. (In the AAU, the difference between raw WRs and shirted WRs is as little as 20 lbs in some weight classes…) Then there are multi-ply feds, unlimited feds, and multi-ply and unlimited WRs. There is NO SUCH THING as “THE BENCH WORLD RECORD"…there are ONLYfed world records. Powerlifting is a sport where you can compete in as little equipment (belt, no belt) or as much equipment as you want – against other people wearing the same stuff, making the same choice. I have said before, I go single-ply and raw. That’s my choice. If someone wants to go multi-ply, I have no problem with that. They compete in multi-ply feds that keep multi-ply records.

    I have explained the way bench shirts work. It is similar to a belt, knee wraps, squat suit, etc…muscle compression enhances muscle function. Tight cotton t-shirt will up your bench. Bike compression shorts will up your squat. If you are against external compression to enhance muscle function, are you also against football players, soccer players, rugby players, baseball players, etc…who wear compression shorts in their sports under their uniforms? Are you against bodysuits in swimming? Bike shorts in cycling? Speedskating or skiing costumes? Because they all do the SAME thing – apply external compression to the muscles…to, yes, ENHANCE the performance...

    Re: Coach's clip and its strongman allusions – you are kidding yourself if you think strongman is “raw strength” – depends on the meet, but you are allowed tacky, belts, squat suits, knee wraps, elbow wraps, neoprene sleeves, etc…hell, there was one competition that had 2” axle deadlift for reps – WITH STRAPS!! (For those who don’t know, a 2” bar is harder than a regular bar, a 3” bar is harder than a 2”…using straps makes the choice of a 2” bar pointless…)…Strongman is even worse than powerlifting. At least if I register for a PL contest, I know what gear is allowed when I register. Strongman, you find out day of the contest, unless you email the promoter before (and even then it can change). (And when tacky is not allowed, it is not out of some "raw strength" consideration - it is because under very hot temperatures, tacky turns to grease…)

    I will compete Sat in the raw division of a single-ply fed. When I lift, single-ply lifters will cheer me on. When the single-ply lifters lift, I will cheer them on. I could go raw in a double-ply fed and get cheered on. Anyone on this board could show up at a PL meet with a 180 bench and get cheered on by a 500 lb bencher. There's a lot of shit thrown on internet boards, but when it comes to the meet, if you get on the platform, you get respect - regardless of numbers, gear, age, or sex.

    In conclusion, I look forward to all of you whose panties are in a bunch over the purity (or honesty, integrity, etc.) of raw powerlifting registering and competing in a raw contest this year - or volunteering as a spotter or loader at a raw contest. (BTW, 100% Raw fed nationals are in Orlando, FL in August - a 7-year old fed, competition is spotty, but there are some very high-quality lifters there: 485 raw bench in the 181s, 400 raw in the 165s, 455 raw in the 198s, 515 in the 220s - most of these numbers would be top 10 in a single-ply fed, all top 20. Show your support for a young fed (and purity, honesty, truth, integrity, whatever) by going to spectate - if this is all about purity, honesty, integrity, etc…:rolleyes: )

    (Oh and Zen, if you're still going to do your treadmill experiment - why don't you use Mendelson's numbers from the same year…May 31, 2005, 715 raw (New England); June 2005, 881 (APF Seniors - miss 903 twice); Aug 2005 (APF California) 914, (1008 - miss)? Why don't you compare the single-ply poly IPF WR (772)?? (Gee, a whole 8% out of a shirt - you'd have to run that combat boot mile in 6:50!!))

    Regarding "geeks in a lab" - hmmm, swimming bodysuits are modelled using computational fluid dynamics, Nike has a Research Lab with design engineers with knowledge of "polymers, biomechanics, pneumatic cushioning,..." :rolleyes: yeah, but let's all bitch about "bench shirts" and pretend we all run marathons in deerskin moccasins and swim in loincloths...
     
  9. Fender

    Fender Well-Known Member

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    First thing... I agree! Eman good luck on Saturday!:bb:


    Second of all, Cajun. I think you might be gettin a bit too excited here man. I didnt see anyone bitching. I see people stating opinions and reasons for those opinions. Some people see things differently than you do. It doesnt mean they dont respect you or what you do. Benching 1000lbs with a shirt is still a hell of an achievment. Obviously its a feat which could not be done except by someone who has spent many hours training and deserves the respect that comes with it.
    :tu: :tu:
     
  10. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    1. The point is that it's really clear that the shirt makes the lift. You can say it doesn't all you want. The record book is very consistent with this. My brother, who competed for years in power lifting, and has his personal best bench and squat with the bench shirt and squat suit, told me this. You think I'm not going to believe him? He was not a champion, but he was competitve - deadlifted over 3.3 times his body weight in competition.

    2. I was pretty sure I could run under 7:00 in the boots - that was the number I sort of had in mind. I expect I'd get the 6:50 with the same sort of maximum effort that got me the 6:20 in running shoes. Dunno how much below that I would get. I figured the boots would be an impediment of less that 10%. I got reasons to believe this, although it's been twenty years since I did much running in boots.

    If I run under 6:50 in boots will see if you can win a bench press competition with only a cotton T-shirt? One of those things is easier than the other.
     
  11. Coachese

    Coachese Well-Known Member

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    A shirt needs to be invented to 'lift' the chip off of cajunman's shoulder...
     
  12. John Stone

    John Stone Every day is Leg Day
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    OK, I think we're about done here.
     
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