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just thought about something as it relates to cutting that hasnt been covered here...

Discussion in 'Fat Loss/Cutting' started by krosspyder, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    to my knowledge that is.


    okay...


    if a "caloric deficit" is the main thing in a cutting diet (loose fat/wieght) technically one can eat "bad food"... say 1 burger from jack in the box and 3 pieces of fried chicken a day and still cut? so as long as one stays under maintainence level that is.

    sounds logical just not healthy... sounds like one can still cutt but it wouldnt be healthy... is this true? not saying im going to do it but im just curious... trying to understand the mechanics.


    sub question...
    [​IMG]

    what if its hard for one to get the proper caloric intake they need by eating clean foods?

    ive tried real hard to just eat clean foods and get the proper caloric deficit but it just doesnt work out because i cant seem to do it... i guess because im too new to clean foods. im very picky about the foods i eat so its hard.

    i need about 2900 to maintain and currently im getting around 1300 a day if im lucky on clean foods.

    would it be better to continue like this or add some fuckin carbs like wheat bread and unhydrogenated penute butter or maybe some pizza.... because i can do that easy.
     
  2. Cziffra

    Cziffra Well-Known Member

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    If you don't give your body the proper nutrients, it's gonna be reluctant to get rid of the fat. Surely you're going to lose weight while in a caloric deficit, that's just thermodynamics... but it's gonna be muscle. The body is very well designed to survive and throwing junk down your throat is not telling your system that there is food enough to safely burn fat. Fat is much more energetically efficient than muscle, so it's preferred by the body as an energy reserve. Otherwise we would be HUGE if we would store some 100.000 cal worth of muscle in our bodies :lol:
     
  3. Sturm

    Sturm Well-Known Member

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    Umm, whole wheat bread aint junk food - dont fall victim to the belief that a certain macronutrient is the devil (before they thought it was fat, now carbs seem to be the nutritional whipping boy) - if youre not eating any carbs, I'd suggest eating some; 1300 calories would be fine for a 5' tall 100 pound grandmother sittin in bed at the nursing home all day :d_wink:
     
  4. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    okay... seems like im begining to clear this up though im still confused...


    how does throwing down bad food... food without proper nutrients... make the body less prone to loosing fat? and conversley that would answer the question of hwo the body easily burns fat with the proper nutrients (this under caloric deficit of course). that concept is a little foggy in my head.. i apologize.

    i mean... okay say you do eat1 burger from jack in the crack and 3 pieces of kfc chicken a day and to maintain it takes 2900 cals a day.... obviously your not getting close to that with such a diet. though you are still cutting... its not safe and healthy because you diet consists of crap food and severly low calories (but never mind the severe part). from such a diet you get protein... simple carbs, sat fat and what else? the only difference between that and a clean meal is the high sat fat and the non lean protein plus simple carbs.... correct? now if you constantly eat that stuff every day you will have accumulated a lot of fatty protein and simple carbs.... and hardly any complex carbs or lean protein... correct? if thats the case and its still caloric deficit then how will the body have a harder time loosing fat if your getting it but your still on a caloric deficit?


    if the body is less reluctant to loose fat still eventually you will have lost fat in a longer period of time (as opposed to proper calroic deficit... clean foods) and at the same time lost muslce. im guessing the muscle will go first.... dont know why but i trust this info even if im not sure on the conceptual understanding behind it. so that being the case.... once most of the muscle is gone your body will move to fat stores cause it cant hold onto that for long... thus ridding you of fat once most of your muscle is gone.... again not good... but technically it can happen from what i can assume here using my basic understanding of the mechanics of loosing wieght.
     
  5. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    i hear ya.... im easy on the carbs though since im carb sensitive... i gather. during dec to jan i was taking in the carbs i need.... now im easy on them... not like i used to be and i see more improvement in terms of loss of body fat.

    i think its because when i eat carbs i have trouble stopping.
     
  6. Monkey

    Monkey Well-Known Member

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    This has been covered, just not directly enough for you I suppose. Jack in the crack or whatever other places you want to name aren't serving burgers in the traditional sense. Read up on these food items and you will see that they contain amazing amounts of sugar and salt. Insulin levels play a big part in losing fat. Not weight, but fat. If you want to lose weight, eat 1300 calories a day of whatever you like. If you want to lose fat and maintain lean body mass (muscle) then you eat clean. Proper foods at the proper time give your body a smoother insulin level. Insulin stays smooth, you don't store fat. You eat some simple sugars while you're chowing down on your fat and carb laden Jack in the Box meal, and your insulin spikes which really helps you to STORE fat. Therefore, you keep your fat, lose your muscle and still technically lose weight on your 1300 calorie a day diet. Your body is going to look like hell. Period. Why is water wet? Why is the sky blue? Why can't I lose weight eating junk food? BECAUSE.

    Sorry.
     
  7. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    dude calm down... im not saying i want to eat that shit.. im just trying to understand this whole thing for myself... i see this board as an amazing source in knowledge of trying to get fit... and so im checking my misconceptions and my confusion up against such a good gauge and source of information... my questions are purely from an educational standpoint... so that i can better help myself with staying in my new lifestyle and thus help others too because i understand what you all understand... im a baby at this and im just drinking milk (on a expierenced level) compared to you all who are consuming meat.... so the milk boy is asking the steak boys so that he can get close to being a steak boy... to help himself as well as other milk boys in the future. get it ?


    thanks for helping undertand this a little better... what you said (though a little harsh in tone) did clear some things up.
     
  8. JeremyLikness

    JeremyLikness Well-Known Member

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    A few things.

    First, too many people focus on calories as the only factor. While it is perhaps the most important factor, there are these little things called vitamins, minerals, enzymes, and phytochemicals that play a role. They help to digest the food. They help to break it down. They participate in the metabolism of foods - in the releasing of energy. Without these items, called cofactors, your body cannot burn fat or even produce the right hormones to release the stored fat into the bloodstream. So while eating lower calories of junk foods might create the caloric deficit, it can also force your metabolism to slow down do to the lack of cofactors you'd get in clean foods ... which can slow, but not stop, your fat loss efforts.

    Other than that, you can cut on bad foods. People do it all the time. If you want to have a good looking corpse, it is a great plan. Eating junk and having a healthy weight will not help you avoid the degenerative diseases that kill 400,000 people every year due to lack of exercise and poor diet. It will simply help you look better. In order to avoid the second leading cause of death next to smoking, you'll need to look beyond calories and weighing less and also consider your health, which throwing down bad foods is not going to help and according to most of the research, will actually hinder.

    Those 3 pieces of chicken from KFC are going to lead to pretty signficant levels of trans fatty acids over time, which have been shown in a number of studies to contribute to cancer and cardiovascular disease. Again, you can probably drop weight and look good doing that if you're not concerned about checking out at an early age.

    Also, you're misunderstanding how the body loses fat.

    First, the body never burns muscle. This is an oversimplification and creates a myth that the body somehow singles out muscles and uses them. It doesn't.

    What happens is through the normal course of the day, your muscles are damaged. Whether you are training, walking, or simply through wear and tear, muscles undergo microtrauma. This is damage to the tissue. It causes the proteins to break and leak amino acids into the bloodstream. Whether you have a perfect diet or not, this happens.

    Now, the body is ALWAYS using a percentage of protein for energy. So what's in the bloodstream will be utilized for energy. If there is not adequate protein to replace what is used, you suffer a net muscle loss. So it's not that the body is burning the muscle - it's burning the amino acids that would otherwise help repair the muscle.

    As for fat, any time you are in a caloric deficit, your body will by definition burn stored body fat. So both muscle and fat will be lost, it is a question of whether you take the necessary steps to stimulate the muscle and provide the materials for repair so it doesn't receive a NET loss.

    Hope that helps a bit.

    Jeremy


     
  9. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    yeah man that helps out alot. makes perfect sense now. wow.

    see thats why i ask these questions sometimes as stupid as they are too the expierenced. ive learned some important concepts of proper fat loss or caloric defict because of my questioning. i knew you all would come through. thanks again man. thanks for also being cool about my question.
     
  10. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    Yup, whenever Jeremy steps in, chances are he'll clear up any confusion. He knows a hell of a lot-certain more about the science of nutrition than I do. I think a lot of people here, including myself, have a thorough understanding of what's healthy but just a basic understanding of WHY it is. Jeremy has a comprehensive understanding as to the why. He's also able to explain in readily comprehensible terms. I find that it's sometimes hard to explain some of the things I have a firm grasp on to others. it's great you want to understand in depth; it should help you meet your goals. Keep up the questioning and your new committment, and you'll soon be a 'steak boy' yourself.
     
  11. JeremyLikness

    JeremyLikness Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, the only stupid questions are the ones that aren't asked. Keep asking, keep receiving, and keep on keeping on! Thanks for the kind words.

    Peace,

    Jeremy

     
  12. Gillisc

    Gillisc Well-Known Member

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    Take all your current portion sizes, and multiply them by 2.23. Problem solved.
     
  13. vatechguy

    vatechguy Elite Member
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    The other thing it looks like you may be overlooking is calorie desnse stuff like nuts. I was a bit behind on my calories and I found that tossing in a half-serving (about 100 calories - 1/8 cup) of almonds with a couple meals filled them out nicely and helped make me feel more full during the day.

    Just a thought. (and no carbs as you said you're carb sensitive.) :tu:
     
  14. guava

    guava Elite Member
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    You WILL lose weight as long as you are in a calorie deficit. However, if you do it on 2000 calories of McDonald's food, you're going to be more tired, more irritable, and more hungry than if you were eating 2000 calories of high quality carbohydrates (ie. vegetables and whole grains) and lean meats. You're also going to miss out on important vitamins and minerals, antioxidants and fibre, and you're going to consume too much fat and sodium, which will ultimately damage your heart.

    Chazz Weaver lost weight on a 30 day McDonald's diet. I'm not recommending it, but it certainly is possible.

    Here's his opinion on your topic:
    Many people have asked me if it matters where their calories come from. At the most basic, eating exactly the number of calories that you burn and if you are only talking about weight, not fat loss, the answer is no -- a calorie is a calorie. A protein calorie is no different from a fat calorie -- they are simply units of energy. As long as you burn what you eat, you will maintain your weight; and as long as you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight. But if we're talking nutrition, it definitely matters where those calories originate. ​

    I think Jeremy's response above is spot on:.
    "You can cut on bad foods. People do it all the time. If you want to have a good looking corpse, it is a great plan"
     
  15. BD231

    BD231 Well-Known Member

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    To the original poster:

    I feel you on eating enough, I simply can't eat enough healthy food. Anything over 1300 calories a day leaves me feeling like sh*t no matter how much I work out.

    However, junk food all but kills my ability to loose, I simply can't loose weight without cutting out junk.

    Calorie cycling has been my only way out.
     

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