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I want to be stronger. For example...

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by gravityhomer, Jan 11, 2007.

  1. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    Here's what I have for a new routine:

    Day 1:
    DB flat bench press
    DB incline bench press
    DB decline bench press
    Dips

    Day 2:
    Deadlift
    DB Rows
    Pullups

    Day 3:
    BB Squat
    DB lunges
    Calf raises
    (maybe those hamstring curls here)

    Do I add a fourth day? Do I not directly work triceps, biceps, or shoulders?

    1FastGTX what do you think too?
     
  2. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    I'd swap Day 1 and Day 3 and then swap Day 2 with Day 3, so the order is:

    Day 1: Squats
    Day 2: Bench
    Day 3: Deadlift

    Or vice versa (3, 2, 1). M-W-F would be a good pattern to use with this split. I recommend squats first because of the priority principle -- whatever you do first in the week or a workout will have the most intensity devoted to it and improve the fastest. As Hatfield said, the squat is capable of more and faster growth than any other exercise, which is why I would recommend starting with it.

    As far as the exercises on each day, I'd suggest something like this:

    1. Start with a few heavy sets of the main exercise of choice (back squat, flat bench, or deadlift) for low reps (1-5). Wave intensity from week to week and go for a new maximum every 2-4 weeks.
    2. Then move to assistance exercises for that main exercise with higher reps (6-12), a moderate volume (24-36 reps), and near failure. Work variations of the bench press, partial deadlift movements to build strength at your weak point, and variations of the squat (front squats, box squats, etc.).
    3. Follow up these general assistance exercises, using a similar volume prescription, with one or two exercises specifically addressing the weak muscles in your movements. For bench press, tricep and shoulder exercises would be likely canidates -- floor presses, push presses, board presses, etc. For deadlifts, extra posterior chain work would be a great idea -- romanian deadlifts, snatch-grip deadlifts, cable pull-throughs, good mornings, etc. For the squat, unilateral exercises to boost quad strength (bulgarian split squats, step-ups, plain old split squats, etc.) or further posterior chain work would be appropriate.
    4. Finally, for the remainder of your workout, distribute upper back and core work throughout the week to balance out the other work.
     
    #82 chicanerous, Jan 14, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2007
  3. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    For a one-bodypart-per-week-3-day-split it's ok, though I would definitely do what Chic suggested with the order.

    If you do that you're going to definitely need more hamstring and lower back work in there. You should also throw in some tricep work.

    And I might be in the minority here, but I would also say that flat barbell bench press should be in your list of "wanna get stronger" exercises. And you should be doing this exercise once in a while. No spotter? Get in the cage and bench press. :)

    I think I saw a good 3-day split posted by Mastover once. Might want to search by his posts.

    I like Canada's upper/lower split idea better myself.

    SUN: Squat/Dead (Lower)
    TUE: Bench (Upper)
    THU: Squat/Dead (Lower)
    FRI: Bench (Upper)

    Probably just because I'm biased though (that's my split). :)
     
  4. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    Thanks for the input chico! This sounds like a great routine. I would need to implement it over time as I have to look up the correct method for performing nearly all of the exercises you recommended. :doh:

    The exercises I need(ed) to look up and have never done:

    romanian deadlift
    box squat
    floor presses
    push presses
    board presses
    cable pull-throughs
    bulgarian split squats
    step-ups
    plain old split squats

    a few quick questions:

    1) a split squat is pretty much the same as a lunge? at least they look almost identical to me.

    2) For the romanian deadlift. My hamstrings are pretty flexible and I have short legs (I can palm the floor easily), So the descriptions I've read say to bend forward until your hamstrings feel a stretch. I can bend all the way over. So would this make the bulgarian deadlift almost identical to a SLDL with knees slightly bent, which I am familar with?

    3) oh and 1-5 reps? how do I approach this? Do I decide to do a certain number of reps for each set that day and then vary the weight accordingly? Like on week I say, okay I will do 5 reps for 3 sets and then pick a weight I think I can do. And then the next week I decide to go for 3 reps for each set and then bump the weight up. Just wondering.
     
    #84 gravityhomer, Jan 15, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2007
  5. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    will do. Thanks Chris. For your split, so you deadlift and squat on the same day twice in one week? Wow. Is one day for max weight and the other for high volume, like that Defranco routine?
     
  6. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    I only recently learned the difference. The split squat puts almost all your weight on your front foot. A lunge distributes the weight between the two legs and often uses a larger stride. From a side view, a split squat looks like a squat, while a lunge looks like a lunge -- if that even helps. :lol:

    I prefer bulgarian split squats to split squats anyways and they're much easier to perform (as far as form).

    zens is an expert on lunging so you might want to PM him. :eek:

    There have been a couple good threads on RDL vs. SLDL in the past that you might want to search for. I assume you mean romanian deadlift in that last sentence. For the RDL, the big thing is that you hold the bar at lockout with the knees bent slightly and then you thrust your butt backwards, which forces you to lower your torso. You keep pushing the butt back until the torso can go no lower or you are about to lose your balance. Your knees can bend a bit further, but they cannot bend too much or else the emphasis on the hamstrings / posterior chain lessens. Once you've reached this limit, you pull the hips back in which returns your body upright.

    In a RDL, it's not really about your toe touch stretch. It's more about your good morning stretch (not the exercise). Keeping your knees straight and your back straight, how far can you lower your torso? Just getting to parallel can be hard. :)

    Most people perceive the ROM in an RDL, good morning, or even SLDL wrong. It's not about how low your torso is to the ground, but the change in the angle of your torso to the legs at the hips.

    There's a couple different ways you can do this. The easiest is just to work up to a RM each week. For example:

    Week 1: Work up to 5-RM
    Week 2: Work up to 3-RM
    Week 3: Work up to 5-RM (greater than Week 1)
    Week 4: Work up to 1-RM
    Week 5: Work up to 5-RM (greater than Week 3 and reestimated based off of new 1-RM)
    Week 6: Work up to 3-RM (greater than Week 2)
    Week 7: Work up to 5-RM (greater than Week 5)
    Week 8: Work up to 1-RM (greater than Week 4)
    Week 9: deload or week off

    If you're not comfortable with 1-RM's, a 2-RM would work great and they can be more accurate since they're harder to cheat.
     
    #86 chicanerous, Jan 15, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2007
  7. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    I remember last year, I was working with my 16 year old 138 lb grandson. I asked how much he deadlifted with at school. He said 80 lbs, I said that was good. I set that up and said let me see you do 10 reps. He did 10 reps in good form. In fact everything he did was in good form, his high school taught that well.

    After he rested a minute, I put 110 lbs on and said give me 10 reps. He did, it was hard, but he kept form. Then after a minute or so rest as I put 20 more lbs on. I ask him to give me 10 reps, he said he couldn't. I said give me as many as you can. With a little " don't be a girl, quit wimping: and etc. on last reps he gave me 8.5 reps. a 62.5% improvement in 10 minutes.

    The point, we are all stronger than we think we are, just try. How many times have you gone to same weight because you know you can do that.

    There is a beauty in rep ranges, also. Say work in a range 8-12 reps, then simply Do as many reps as possible, if you can't complete 8 reps in good form, reduce weight next workout. If you can do 12 or more, increase weight next workout. See there is no set number of reps, you do as many as you can, but it tends to keep you in range. Triple progression!
     
  8. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    yes, it makes sense. thanks :tucool:

    uh, I think I'm on the outs with him.
    okay, now that you've described the goal in each they seem like completely different exercises

    Okay with these restrictions I can get to parallel. Without bending my back or knees I can reach to about 2 inches from my toes (I have short arms as well as legs, I'm all torso :lol: ).

    when you say work up to it, do you mean, I know I'm going to do 3 sets so I use the first two in order to pick the right weight for a 5 rep max on the last set. is this what you mean?

    In searching for your exercises I came across these two articles involving Defranco that I thought were really cool:


    http://www.strengthcats.com/JDfabulous15.htm

    http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_t-mag_promaker.htm
     
  9. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    way too often. this combined with inconsistent dedication is probably why some exercises have not progressed much in the last year.
     
  10. gazza123

    gazza123 Active Member

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    I saw this first hand last Wednesday when I did my leg workout.
    For some reason in my log book I wrote deadlifts at the top with the weight I was going to use (increased because I completed 10 reps with good form the week before :tu:) even though I do back squats first.
    So anyway I did a few warm up sets of squats, then looked at the log book and loaded on the weight. However I loaded on the weight I was aiming to do for deadlifts which was 25lbs heavier then what I aimed to do for squats.
    I didn't realise till I came to doing my deadlifts what I had done, but I completed 3 sets of squats with 10 reps each with a much heavier weight then last week BY ACCIDENT!
    Just shows that sometimes its our mental side which stops the physical side from performing to its best. :bb:
     
  11. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    Instead of working today, I spent the day making a routine for the week. We'll see how week 1 goes. (Tues, Thurs, Sat.)

    Day 1: Squat day

    3 sets of 4-5 reps of Squat
    3 sets of 9 reps of DB Bulgarian split squats
    3 sets of 9 reps of DB lunge
    3 sets of 9 standing calf raises
    3 sets of 9 hamstring isolation (not sure yet what)
    Ab work

    Day 2: Bench day

    3 sets of 4-5 reps of DB flat bench
    3 sets of 9 reps of incline DB bench
    3 sets of 9 reps of decline DB bench
    3 sets of 9 reps of seated DB press
    3 sets of 9 reps of close grip BB flat bench press

    Day 3: Deadlift day

    3 sets of 4-5 reps of deadlift
    3 sets of 9 partial dead lifts (the bottom of the lift)
    3 sets of 9 snatch grip deadlifts
    3 sets of 9 cable pull-throughs
    3 sets of 9 good mornings.
    pullups
     
  12. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    Yes. Just a regular pyramid:

    Bench Press: 5 x 70, 5 x 80, 5 x 90, 5 x 100

    You increment the weight over a few sets until you hit failure for the RM.

    :nod:

    He has some good stuff.
     
  13. JoeSchmo

    JoeSchmo Well-Known Member

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    That seems like a lot of volume to me.......I'd try to reduce the volume and also shift reps to the 3-5 range (assuming strength is your goal).
     
  14. bradh

    bradh Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i think GH is stuck in the bodybuilding split world still. :)

    Higher frequency is better for strength gains GH because motor learning is very important.

    Each session should have 1-2 main compound lifts for a 3RM and some assesory work, 8-15reps IMO.

    Edit: No offense meant GH i just think an upper/lower split is probably your best route for strength gains and of course hypertrophy won't suffer.
     
    #94 bradh, Jan 15, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2007
  15. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    Ha, maybe a fun study would be to work with a trainer and don't look how much weight he uses and then the whole focus would be on form and the movement and not the mental issues with the weight. blind weightlifting. :nod:

    :bang: :bang: I knew you guys would say this. Well I have to start somewhere. And I'm sure I'll modify things when I get to the gym. I'm going to stick with 3 days for now and see what happens. I will always change things around to keep it interesting. as long as I keep getting stronger.
     
  16. MannishBoy

    MannishBoy Senior Member

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    You can still do an upper/lower split using three days. Just rotate them. Some weeks, you get two uppers, one lower, the next you get two lower one upper.

    Or, if you're stuck at 3 days, full body is an option, with different exercises every day of the week. About 5-7 total exercises per day, primarily compound movements.

    The key I think is progression and intensity. Whether it's weight, sets, reps, training density, or whatever, you need to always strive to do more than last session. No matter what you end up doing exactly.
     
  17. bradh

    bradh Well-Known Member

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    Good point MB.

    GH you can do that - 2 upperbody sessions and 1 lowerbody session one week and reverse that the next week.
     
  18. gravityhomer

    gravityhomer Elite Member
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    Okay mannish and canada, I will definitely consider it. But Mastover and chicanerous recommended this type of routine, so I am going to give it a shot in the beginning. At least for a month.

    I did a fullbody workout twice a week (all compound movements) this past summer and I think it was too much, i was always still sore by the next workout. But maybe your guys method will space it out by just enough to recover.
     
  19. MannishBoy

    MannishBoy Senior Member

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    Oh, I'm not trying to get you to go a different route than suggested by chicanerous and mastover, I was just pointing out you could still do upper/lowers on a 3 day week based on your other response if you decide to in the future.

    As for fullbody and recovery, you have to plan it full body and not over do it. Seems many going from splits to full body still try to get way too many exercises into those sessions. 5 or 6 is plenty if they're mostly big compound movements.

    GL.
     
  20. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    You got the right idea down with the new routine you posted, but it's still leaning toward a bodybuilding split.

    Strictly as an example, here's something based exactly off what I recommended:

    I would try not to fail on any set but the last set of an exercise, but constantly attempt to use more weight or increase the number of reps I do. If I started to plateau on an assistance exercise, I would switch to a different one. I'd also regularly vary at least one of the assistance exercises on each day (i.e. the second or third exercise in each workout) every 3-4 weeks as well as at least one of the back exercises (i.e. the last exercise on day one and five).

    I would also make sure that both my assistance exercises are not near the top of their rep ranges at the same time, otherwise I could be doing a bit more volume than I'd recommend (e.g. 4 x 10 + 3 x 12 = 76 total reps :eek:).

    For the maxes, I would use the wave scheme:

     
    #100 chicanerous, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007

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