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How can it work?

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by doordude42, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    I keep on hearing about HIT.According to the advocates of this method, they spend a total of 1.5 hrs. in the gym weekly. I find it hard to believe ANYONE can get ANY substantial gains with only 1/2 hour training 3X weekly.I'm not looking to start any shit here but I need to see proof! (pictures) Please don't be offended.
     
  2. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    Your pictures do indeed show HIT will work for weight loss however i'm from the old school and equate strength training to muscle development (size).The gains I was referring to was increase in muscle mass. Please don't get offended,you look good

    By the way,before anyone asks,yes i've heard of Mike Mentzer and i'm familiar with Heavy Duty. I never really bought into that method either. Just my opinion.
     
    #2 doordude42, Jul 15, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2005
  3. kmfisher

    kmfisher Well-Known Member

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    I have trouble buying into the HIT methodolgy and thinking, too. But, I'm a big Waterbury fan, and his methods are completely different.

    I do not believe a beginner should do HIT. Only an advanced lifter. The reason for this is that beginner (and intermediate) lifters do not understand what failure is, how close they can come to it, and what their body is capable of. Beginners would be better off with a more traditional routine so they can learn about failure points, their own strengths and weaknesses, and proper lifting technique.
     
  4. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    I think you directed this challenge to me since I am #1 HIT advocate. I went out in the rain to take a picture of my old body, it isn't in picture condition that a younger body could get from HIT. I have been maintaining and only recently started a cut. I was hoping for pictures in September. So here is your picture.

    I think pictures only show what the person has done with a method, not as to method working. I would hate for HIT to be a failure in someone's eye because I don't match what they want. Why don't you try HIT yourself for a few weeks.
     

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    #4 RTE, Jul 15, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2005
  5. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    Failure in my understanding of HIT is When You can't continue the positive or lifting movement in proper form (without cheating). That is simple, most can understand that, beginner or pro. You are doing a curl in proper form, you keep doing the reps till you can't complete the rep without cheating and using other body parts besides bicep.

    HIT routines are made up of basic exercises, they only have to perform one set per exercise. If there is any brand of lifting that believes form is king it is HIT. The perfect program for a beginner, he will learn the right way with out over training. Again try it for a few weeks by the book.
     
    #5 RTE, Jul 15, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2005
  6. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    I don't spend much more time than that in the gym per week. Probably 2 1/2 hours (I go 5 times per week, each bodypart once per week).

    Generally speaking, about time only (and not HIT per se), you can easily attain a good physique working out only 1.5 hours per week. To think otherwise makes no sense to me. You can get an effective workout in in 15 minutes if you want, if you lift with high intensity, much less 30.

    You should google this some bro. I am honestly surprised to see you post this.
     
  7. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    This actually makes a lot of sense. I don't think most people know what true failure is in the sense of what I always believed HIT spoke of (and definitely what Mentzer spoke of), much less could actually go beyond it. As an advanced trainee myself I have no problem admitting I've only TRULY gone into this zone a few times, which is exactly why I do more than 1 set per bodypart. :)

    EDIT: Notice "what I believe HIT spoke of." I stressed this weeks ago but nobody really commented or continued the discussion. Perhaps HIT is not as intense as I thought, I honestly do not know. Perhaps Heavy Duty/Mentzer is much more intense (or supposed to be) than HIT/Darden.

    But then I read of Jones discussing Viator's experiments, vomiting and falling down. Oh well. Doesn't really matter anyway, at least not at the moment.
     
  8. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    Well, me being the kind of guy that I am and refuse to pull punches I WILL say that you were correct in assuming my comments were directed to you.However, it was in no way intended as a challenge. Quite frankly, without a before picture to compare muscle development, the picture you posted is useless to me. Please don't take this personally. I just think muscles need more work than a total of one set to failure for any significant growth.
    I'm sorry I got you out in the rain.It wasn't nessessary. Hey, if HIT works for you, go for it!
     
  9. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    See, I think the opposite. I'm undecided on HIT for intermediate and advanced lifters. I think regularly training to failure is unecessarily taxing. And I have trouble believing that the low volume of HIT could produce gains in seasoned lifters. I am actually very interested in hearing from anyone on this board who had been lifting for a time and started HIT at a solid solid size. I would like to know what their training previous to HIT was and how many lbs of muscle they gained in how many weeks. But I think HIT is a great way to start lifting. I had newbie gains to the tune of 12 lbs of muscle in a summer when I first began lifting using HIT. There's nothing difficult about understanding what failure is. You simply lift until you physically can't do another rep. I picked it up right away. I've been training my sister and she did as well. It was a great way to introduce her to lifting. It taught her to really push herself and what failure was. Only this way could she move to training to near failure. Now she's doing full-body wokrouts, 2 circuits, each exercise to near failure. Soon, she will move to a heavier rep range than 8-12 and either do and upper/lower body split or fullbody wokrouts utilizing supersets. But HIT was great for her to learn. And I think it's a great way for beginners to begin lifting.
     
  10. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    You asked for pictures. These guys are not all necessarily "HIT Guys" but you talked about short amounts of time in the gym...

    Mike Mentzer:
    [​IMG]

    Dorian Yates:
    [​IMG]

    Casey Viator:
    [​IMG]

    Ellington Darden:
    [​IMG]

    Arthur Jones:
    [​IMG]

    Interesting w/pics:
    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508353
     
  11. Nico

    Nico Well-Known Member

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    Man Yates was so thick and his forearms and legs were unreal. :d_eek:
     
  12. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    I'm sure all these guys implimented a variety of workout routines. I'm also sure genetics and drugs played a major role in their developement.
     
  13. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    Those pictures are all when and good. But I'd like to see some nonfamous HIT users. Or at least hear about their progress. Because I've never seen anybody with an impressive physique that they can attribute to HIT. Obviously, genetics, age, etc... come into play, so some visible or expressed improvement for non-beginner lifters would also be ok.
     
  14. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    Being old enough to be your daddy that picture shows me in nearly the worst condition of my life. I frankly don't have a good picture, A number of years ago my family lost nearly all our pictures in a move due to my son giving the wrong boxes to salvation army and our not discovering it until weeks later. But that's all right, the only people I cared to see my body saw it. I have never represented myself as having a contest body.

    I will continue HIT, and I will continue recommending it to all ages and all sexes. People make their own choices, you have made yours and I have made mine in life, I trust others to do the same.
     
  15. vidasuena

    vidasuena Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, I seem to remember doordude as being in his 50's already? Unless you were a PARTICULARLY randy elementary schooler shooting live rounds... yow! :D

    Back on topic, specific to time constraints, I certainly think you can do gains on three 45 minute sessions a week... okay, that's 2.25 hrs. I've even gotten maintenance to slow gains on 2 45 minute workouts per week, in supersets along the lines of:

    Pullups 4x6-8
    Flat or Inc presses 4x8-12
    Calf raises 3x20

    Pec Dec 3x12 plus a drop set
    Rows 3x10
    Leg Press 3x15

    Behind neck press 3x10
    BB Curls 3x10
    Dips or pullovers 4x8 [or even deads 5x5- beginning to hate them because 1) they make me want to hurl and 2) i enjoy having a neck]

    10 or 15 minutes for each of the above three-part supersets with just a little rest after each cycle. It's doable.

    Right, OK. So I've drifted away from HIT. But somewhere back there I was trying it and it was for the sake of gains with limited time. And the above is where I've ended up several years later, getting back some volume and relying on supersetting to get it all in...
     
  16. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    I agree that great gains are possble on three fullbody 45-minute workouts per week (going heavy) utlizing mostly compound exercises and supersets.
     
  17. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected, I was unaware that he was that old. :lol:
     
  18. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    For those that like the full-body training approach, I think this is an excellent program.
     
  19. freddyaudiophile

    freddyaudiophile Well-Known Member

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    I will offer my comments here well as I've been doing HIT. I was always fat -- real fat -- in high school. Several years ago, I started lifting, doing cardio and eating right. I went from wearing size 42 or 44 pants down to size 34 and 35 over a year or so. I had a trainer (where I worked, not hired by me personally) advise me on programs and diet. I generally followed my own instincts, mountain biked like there was no tomorrow, and got down to a decent size, at 197 lbs at 6 foot tall. I still had a little fat around my gut (I have a large frame) but I was in good shape.

    Due to school, work and neglect (all of my own choosing), I let myself slide and got back up to 260 lbs or so as of last spring. With $100 in weight plates and dumbbell handles, 6 clean meals a day and lots of walking, I got back down to 218 in 4 months (last spring).

    I got back into strength training at the start of this year and put on some good size in only 4 months. Again, diet and dedication were key factors. After that, I did a month of Max OT and was really impressed with the results. Now, I've been doing HIT for the last month or so. Even with irregular trips to the gym (vacation, inlaws in town, travel for work), I'm STILL going up in weights on the HIT program. My overall time in the gym has decreased -- each workout now averages about 25 mins (depending on people who hog the equipment) and I lift 3 times a week. I find that I don't get quite as pumped as with my Max OT workouts, but I try to follow the HIT methodology as much as I can. I have lost quite a bit of body fat because of the added cardio aspects of HIT. I don't think I will ever get down to 5% bodyfat on HIT but the fat is coming off and I'm happy with the results. I appear to have lost a little of my size that I put on earlier this year, but this is probably due to my irregular trips to the gym. I've found that lifting cadence (4/4) and form are essential -- you will make the best gains if you follow those. I read Darden's book 5 times -- I think it was so-so. I think you are better off to save your coin and read up on RTE's writings on here, as you can get the basic idea of HIT from that.

    I probably won't be on HIT forever, as I liked Max OT more. However, that said, I tried HIT to lose bodyfat due to the cardio aspect of it. I have my rest periods between each set down to 25 seconds, and I finish each workout feeling like I just ran a 3 km sprint.

    Give HIT a try -- you might be impressed with the results.

    freddy
     
  20. doordude42

    doordude42 Senior Member

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    I have researched HIT and again - I don't think it's a sufficient training technique for muscle building.
     

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