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High estrogen, and low testosterone. Help?

Discussion in 'Nutrition & Supplements' started by rcbrown23, Oct 12, 2005.

  1. rcbrown23

    rcbrown23 Well-Known Member

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    OK... this is my first post here, but I am familiar with the way things work. Someone recomended this site from another.

    I'm an athletic 26 year old male, and I work out pretty frequently and naturally. I weigh about 165 and I also run a mile a day or so... On the other hand, I'm a fairly heavy drinker.

    Long story short, I have high estrogen, and low testosterone. It's nearly impossible for me to gain ANY muscle mass, among other problems.

    I don't have any insurance at the moment, so I can't spend money on an endocrinologist to find a solution (I already spent $1500).

    I'm on DIM and Zinc, but it's just not doing enough. I'm looking for a somewhat long term solution to decrease my estrodial levels. I believe that my testosterone will improve on it's own with the decrease of estrogen.

    The only things I've found that look promising are: Arimidex, but it's by prescription only, and I can't afford an endo right now. 6oxo, but it's for short term use, and I'm worried that after stopping use, I will be worse off than when I started. Is that a reasonable assumption? I don't want to do any permanent damage... the healthier the better.

    I had an operation for gynecomastia about six months ago, and I'm now worried about re-growth due to the "imbalance".

    ANY AND ALL IDEAS WELCOME. I really need to figure something out quickly.

    Thanks.

    -brown

    P.S. I've never taken any steroids or even supplements for enhancement, so it's just a natural imbalance I guess.
     
  2. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    Drink less. Sorry. Not exactly sure how you've determined your hormonal profile in the first place, but if you are training and eating right, alcohol is a likely culprit. You could consider a substance to increase endogenous testosterone as well. Of course, there are many things that could be wrong with your diet and training that have far greater impact on your inability to gain muscle than your supposed testosterone deficiency.
     
  3. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    How do you know your estrogen is high and testosterone is low?

    Stop drinking so much.

    Eat more red meat and/or fatty foods.
     
  4. NewSkin

    NewSkin Well-Known Member

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    I'm no expert but here are a couple thoughts. Cut out ALL soy. It's fine for most men to eat it in moderation, but it could be bad for somebody with a pre-existing hormone imbalance.

    Also I read something somewhere about flax being bad for men, but I don't remember the reason. So you could try googling some info on that.

    I will agree with everybody else that you will probably see some improvements after quitting drinking. Alchohol (in excess) is one of the most toxic substances that people consume. Even if there is no documented evidence that alchohol causes your paticular problem, there is a chance that it is somehow aggravating it.
     
  5. TarSeal

    TarSeal Well-Known Member

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    Bingo! I'd say more fatty food only if that fat is on a big hunk of beef. I don't think 1fast means chips here (do you?) And the thing about soy is on the money.
     
  6. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    No, not chips! :lol:
     

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  7. Snowie

    Snowie Well-Known Member

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    id suggest the same as everyone else...but its sounds like your looking for more answers.

    why dont you go have look over at www.bodybuilding.com forums and post in the steroids forum...those guys know quite abit about getting there test levels back up after cycling gear...maybe they would have some ideas???
     
  8. Gordo

    Gordo Well-Known Member

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  9. TarSeal

    TarSeal Well-Known Member

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    ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That pic is getting to me now too!
     
  10. rcbrown23

    rcbrown23 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the responses.

    I know I'm out of whack because I went to an endocrinologist and had a bunch of tests done. All was normal except testosterone and estrodial. Test = 442 on a scale of 200-900, and someone my age should be in the upper third. Estrodial (E2, bad estrogen) was at 45, on a scale of 10-50, and, again, someone my age should be around 15-20.

    I know the alcohol is not helping the situation, but I also know it's not causing it either. I did stop drinking for awhile, without much improvement. It is a real imbalance that should be treating with some sort of medication, but I can't afford all the "trial and errors" to find the right medication right now. That would cost thousands, and I don't have insurance. In a couple years, I assume I'll have the insurance and income to do that, but for now I'm looking for a quick fix.

    I have heard of Tribulus Terrestis, and I'll give it a shot. I'll also post on the other forum and see if anyone has any suggestions.

    Also... for someone with a testosterone/estrogen ratio such as mine it is nearly impossible to gain muscle mass, regardless of training and diet. Believe me... I've done a lot of research on this, and low testosterone = no gains. I can get really toned, and bulk up a little bit, but adding muscle is not happening. It's not that I'm really low with test, it's that my estrogen is too high... that's the problem. If I could lower it, my testosterone would raise itself to "normal".

    thanks again. Any more suggestions welcome.

    -brown
     
  11. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    Uh, what's your diet? Food choices, calories, macros, # of meals and when? Alpha Male is a good supplement that can help raise endogenous testosterone. ZMA as well and helps promote good sleep. Alcohol lowers testosterone and raises estrogen, plain and simple. It's been shown in numerous studies. Not a problem for me. But it's extremely likely that it exasperbates problems for someone with an already bad hormonal profile. If the doctor though it was bad enough to be treated, they would have. What did they tell you?
     
  12. TarSeal

    TarSeal Well-Known Member

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    How do you think you got this way? Have you eaten lots of soy in your life, or done anything else that may have led to this? Were you fed soy formula as a baby?
     
  13. TheRyanator

    TheRyanator Well-Known Member

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    I have a similar situation that my test levels are a bit low, estrogen is fine. The only symptom I had before getting an endocrinoligist to check it out was some fatigue, however there are other symptoms including decreased libido, no or little results in reaching fitness goals regardless of diet or exercise etc...

    What is your nutritional breakdown? If you are drinking a lot and want to get these levels into balance without reducing alcohol consumption I would not expect to acocmplish much. Alcohol outside of moderation is the culprit for a lot of health issues as it throws the whole body out of whack. So if you really want to adress the problem of test/estr. levels you need to adress your drinking habits first as a foundational/keystone to your solution.

    Andro-gel is a prescription that my doc recommended, however I have not used it as it is just another hormone to throw into my body that will "help" but anything prescription for this issue has its own set of side-effects. I believe it also has a side-effect of "man-boobs" which if you are dealing with a gyno issue anything like that probably would be counter productive to your goals to keeping the gyno under control.

    I think your best bet is to not spend any more money on the endocrinologist as they will only prescribe hormones or drugs with their own set of side-effects that may only be a temporary fix. You would be better off spending much less and meeting with a good nutritionist who can review and recommend a diet to naturally get your levels back to normal.

    some links -

    http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/boosttes.htm

    http://www.healthynewage.com/testosterone.htm

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html

    Good luck.
     
  14. rcbrown23

    rcbrown23 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the links... helpfull.

    Not sure how I got this way. If I had to guess... I'd say it was the massive alcohol and drug use over the course of about three years when I was 16. I think I'm now paying for past mistakes.

    My diet is not the greatest, but not the worst. I do eat a lot of chicken breast, vegetables, etc. But I'm not an all around healthy eater by any means. About a year ago I quit drinking and really stepped up my workouts and diet. Within a month, I got very toned and lowered my already low body fat... but no muscle gains, even with a the heavy routine I was doing. I did go up in weight... but very slowly. I think I adde maybe 30 lbs to my bench press over the course of 5 months of serious lifting. Got a little bigger... but not enough, and I eventually got sick of not seeing any results and went back to the bad habbits.

    The endo I saw wanted to put me on a prescription med... I did my own research and didn't really agree with his methods, so I did not take the meds. I agree that once you start on the prescription meds, a whole new set of side effects come along and it's a pain in the @ss. I would like a natural solution, and the DIM is all natural and helps immensly, but just not quite enough. I can tell because the imbalance caused my skin to "flare" and I get itchy. When it's under control, no itchy... This along with my quality of sleep, fatigue, and sex drive let me know where I stand. I've learned to interpret these over the past year (when I found out).

    -brown
     
  15. brezman

    brezman Well-Known Member

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    Those numbers are within standard ranges, age regardless.

    W/ out a baseline from some time ago its impossibly to say if you really do have an imbalance.

    I was tested a few years back and had almost your exact same numbers, I don't believe its caused me any problems.

    Thought I almost never drink, so that could very well be your culprit.
     
  16. jsbrook

    jsbrook Well-Known Member

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    You really need to log your food intake for a few days and post it here to get critiqued. I suspect it's excessively low in fat (at least the right kinds) and low in overall calories for gaining mass. The body won't make something from nothing. Besides providing the necessary fuel to make muscle, the right diet does wonders and goes a very long way towards establishing healthy hormone profiles.
     
  17. Timbermiko

    Timbermiko Well-Known Member

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    I'm scared! My test profile a few years ago was in the 470's...shit, I thought that was alright for a mid-30's guy (back then). :o
     
  18. Timbermiko

    Timbermiko Well-Known Member

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    another thing, If you were already using a weight that challenged you to make your reps in your bench...adding 30lbs in 5 months to your top bench is not bad...but sounds right for the drug free trainee.

    I'm bulking and I add 1.5lbs a week to my bench as this is the rate my body can adapt to...I'm telling you drug free is a whole different world.

    You can't rush this process....if you do, your form will start to suffer and you may get injured...starting the whole process over.
     
  19. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    The booze could have quite a lot to do with it. It increases estrogen levels and decreases testosterone. All those bum winos in the downtown alleys...how many do you see that are bald ( don't mean shaved)?. Heavy lifting affects your T levels. Right after a workout it spikes higher and then later falls lower than normal. On the other hand if you take T supps in excess, the excess T will be converted into Estrogen. But the first thing you could do would be to lighten up on the alcohol consumption.
     

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