1. Have you installed the new JSF Mobile app? Check out all the details here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. One account & one avatar for all of JSF. Unified login and profile. Forum alerts on the main site, and more. Check out the details here: Forum & main site unified account feature is live!
    Dismiss Notice

Guys, everyone, please give me specific personalized help.

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by Python49, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Python49

    Python49 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    I tried to read through all the information on the site and run searches but I honestly am getting alot of conflicting and contradicting information so I decided it would be easier to ask specific questions so that I can get specific help based on my body type, metabolism, age, etc...

    Ok, here is some starting information about myself. I am 6'4 (maybe 6'5) and weigh about 225.... im not cut or all that muscular and I have a gut. Here are some pictures taken today of what my "before" pictures will look like before I began lifting.
    http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/python49/Front.JPG
    http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/python49/Front2.JPG
    http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/python49/Side.JPG
    http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/python49/Side2.JPG

    In the pictures you will see that I have this genetic thing with my back where it curves inward ALOT which in turn makes my stomach stick out more than it should.
    What I would like to look like is what John Stone (creator of the site) looks like in his most recent pictures.. the november 2004 ones. I want to cut down on body fat in the stomach area but also get bigger in the muscles.

    My question is, what would be the best route to take, considering i dont have too much fat in any area except the stomach area (less cardio because of this?) but i also dont have much muscle. Should I first try to lose weight and cut up, and once getting over that phase, bulk up by eating more calories and stuff? When I bulk up though, I don't want to bulk up on fat, I want the bulk to be bigger muscles... basically to simplify my question I would like to know the best route to take if I want to go from what I am now, to what John Stone is in his first pictures. Thanks.
     
  2. JeremyLikness

    JeremyLikness Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,663
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can only speak from my direct experience with this ... and here's the scoop: that "genetic thing" may contribute a bit, but the bottom line is that the issue is still fat, and burning fat is what will correct it.

    You actually have fat all over. You might not have excessive fat on your arms or chest, for example, but a lot of your muscular definition will show as you cut body fat. You are carrying a lot of fat starting right below your chest to your waist. As you lose this fat, not only will you increase defnition, but your chest will look more muscular as it loses the fat underneath it to highlight the "cut."

    You should certainly target training with weights, etc., but you still need to drop weight. You have enough fat to lose that you probably won't gain the same amount of muscle, so I would not look to bulk. I'd look to train to gain/maintain muscle and cut the fat. Once you are lean and defined, then you can decide your next step and move into a bulking phase.

    If you want to get to where John Stone is, a good way is to follow what he did: cut body fat, then start to bulk.

    Jeremy

     
  3. Python49

    Python49 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the response. I know that I have alot of uneeded fat and was not trying to put it on the curve on my back, but was just noting that it does make it stick out alot further.
     
  4. JMR

    JMR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, you've got a pretty severe anterior tilt there, some rounding of the shoulders as well, and throacic curvature. Go to testoerone.net and search for a series of articles called "Neanderthal No More" or something like that. I posted links in another thread so someone may fill in the blanks here. If you follow that program then you will probably start to gain some mass while straightening out your curvature that most likely is a result of many years of poor posture and tight muscles.

     
  5. reanimated838uk

    reanimated838uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    0
  6. Python49

    Python49 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well guys, I appreciate the information on the curvature in my back (although that link posted has no information on it), but I was looking moreso for advice on how to approach my lifting of weights. Something like....

    "Start out with cardio MWF and lift T,W,THU, for the gut you could work abs during weight training and at night, make sure to include a diet with X amount of calories and use protein shakes". That was just rambling on my part from random type of information ive seen here, but I don't know if its accurate for my situation.

    Thanks in advance for any responses.
     
  7. Python49

    Python49 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is this even a real post? You do realize sarcasm is hard to spot on the internet right? Considering the site you suggested doesnt work and the article for me to search for seems to be unrelated to the curve... it seems to be that you're just trying to be funny. Im just looking for advice, thanks.
     
  8. Wilderbeast

    Wilderbeast Elite Member
    Lifetime Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    0
    The linked tread is relevent and the tmag links seem good what is your problem ?
     
  9. Python49

    Python49 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    The website he gave does not exist (at least when I trid it)... and also the link someone posted didnt say anything in relation to a curved spine... i dont have a problem, what about you? Im just here like everyone else looking for help.
     
  10. Kino

    Kino Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    4
    STOP!

    You've got some pretty serious postural distortion, that if left unaddressed could lead to some real serious problems down the road. I've got a couple of questions...
    Have you been checked out by a doctor, or have you been refered to a PT that has cleared you for strength training? I'm assuming that since you refered to this as a genetic issue, that you've been down this route already, but I'm curious as to what any medical professionals have had to say about future activity?

    You're exibiting characteristics of both Upper Extremity Postural Distortion, as well weakness through the Lumbo-Pelvic-Hip Complex.

    Low Back Arches:
    Tight Muscles: Gastoc/Soleus, Bicep Femoris, Adductors, IT Band, Illiopsoas, and Piriformis.
    Weak Muscles: Gluteus Medius/Maximus, Transversus Abdominis, and Multifidi.

    The big key here would be to work on flexibility through the hip flexors and strengthening the glutes. That's the short version...

    Abdomen Protrudes:
    Tight Muscles: Illiopsoas
    Weak Muscles: Lumbo-Pelvic-Hip Complex Stabilization Mechanism(CORE Musculature)

    Once again, issues with tight hip flexors...and it's fairly obvious that there is some serious core strength/stability issues that NEED TO be addressed.

    Rounding of the shoulders is a typical characteristic of a person who spends their day in front of a computer or at a desk all day(you didn't mention). It can't be seen in your pictures, but I suspect that when standing in an upright relaxed position, that your hands turn inward and face back. This is caused by tightness through the Lat's, and Pec's and is typically an easy issue to address through some Foam Rolling, and Static/Active stretching.

    So...dietiing would be fine, though I would really suggest making sure that you're cleared for weight training by a professional before procedinig with that route. If you have been cleared...then I would suggest first addressing the postural distortions through some corrective flexibility training, before working with any weights. IE: Body weight movements would be ok, but would limit it to that until you have some better functional flexibility.
    I'm limited to what I could suggest and post in here, since I cannot post the illustrations that I would like too. However...if you are cleared for all of the above, I'd be happy to email a corrective flexibility routine with illustrations that you might be able to incorporate into your training, as well as some exercises to help correct some of the postural distortion.

    Late Edit: As mentioned by JMR, you've also got some Anterior Pelvic Tiltiing which could also be addressed through some corrective flexibility, and strengthening. (Lower Extremity Postural Distiortion)
     
    #10 Kino, Nov 23, 2004
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2004
  11. Wilderbeast

    Wilderbeast Elite Member
    Lifetime Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    0
  12. ThatOldGuy

    ThatOldGuy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    0
    Python, you're missing something somewhere. I don't see a joke anywhere. The link posted above has the following link within the discussion: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459379This article definitely addresses curvature of the spine. Perhaps it's not the exact answer you were wanting but it's not a joke by any means.
     
  13. Kino

    Kino Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    4
  14. JMR

    JMR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry. I misspelled testosterone.net... Sorry about that. No joke. You seriously need to start correcting the problem like Kino said or you will be seriously messed up in the future. Lifting weights when your biomechanics are all out of whack will make a mess of you. Take it from me...

    Thanks for the help Kino! I'm only an amateur. I'll let you take over!! :D
     
  15. reanimated838uk

    reanimated838uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Links might be down right now. It was working a few min ago... odd.
     
  16. reanimated838uk

    reanimated838uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    0
  17. kmfisher

    kmfisher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here are the relevant URLs if you are interested:

    Neanderthal No More, Part I
    Neanderthal No More, Part II (specifically talks about the curved spine)
    Neanderthal No More, Part III
    Neanderthal No More, Part IV

    The article is extremely lengthy. Part I and II explains posture problems. Part III shows examples with real people. Part IV is the workout to help correct the posture problems. It is very comprehensive and fairly technical at times.

    I, personally, have implemented some of the exercises into my current routine and my posture has improved greatly. (I had a slight forward rounding, and one shoulder was higher than the other)

    I would say that doing this workout, in combination with cardio 3x per week, while eating at a slight calorie deficit will cause you to lose fat and correct posture while building some muscle. I would do the workout for 8 - 12 weeks, and then check your posture. If it is improved enough, move over to a different workout. Otherwise, go through this one again.
     
  18. Python49

    Python49 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok wow, this is all brand new news to me.... I always thought the curve in my back was just something I inherited from my mother since she had it. Now though, I realize this is a problem which can be corrected. I can't deny that I am now worried because the links were a hefty bit of information which sounded really technical and didnt get any insight as to how to correct the problem. Now I feel even more overwhelmed than before because not only am I looking for information on how to achieve the muscle mass I desire, but I now need to do flexing exercises to fix my posture.

    I was going to ask how I go about fixing the posture but just recently added was a post by kmfisher (thanks man), which I can use as starting grounds. When you say calorie deficit that just means cut back on the calories and fat correct? What about protein? Should I be getting alot of protein and is it okay to use whey protein shakes along with the work outs and cardio? Thanks in advance and sorry to everyone for coming across as though I thought it was a joke. The only reason was because none of the links appeared to be working for me.
     
  19. Python49

    Python49 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Also, im just wondering. I was browsing through some of the work outs on that page and in a few of them they mentioned having an erect posture where your shoulders are back and back is straight. The thing with my posture is that the more erect I attempt to stand, with shoulders back... the more my back curves in. It would feel as though im doing workouts to further make the curve in the back become worse. Could someone explain this? Also they say that when sitting throughout the day make sure to have the back straight and posture upright... well when doing this, i can just feel the curve in my back and it feels like its putting pressure to further make the curve worse. If i wanted to correct the curve wouldnt I lean forward to counteract it? Just wondering.
     
  20. reanimated838uk

    reanimated838uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Any chance someone can edit the pics on part 3 please. I can't see what they mean by rounded shoulders and the other things. I do know what they mean by the S shape but I can't see anything wrong with the people in the pics. Just need to know what i should be looking at.
     

Share This Page