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feeling tired before lifting session...

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by krosspyder, Jul 21, 2005.

  1. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    most of what i was recently doing that lead me to my plateau is here...

    http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=18220&page=1&pp=20


    im slowly changing some stuff up... diet---more eating... getting carbs more from veggies and fruits as opposed to just grains and taking it easy on the cardio... lifting im changing things up as as well: supersets for one.

    i just did my legs... squats, deadlifts and lunges.... i was good going in... a lot of rest.... got more sleep this time.... but during and after i felt more exhausted.. i mean i finished my session but i was more pooped then i was before when i was doing a lot of cardio. im guessing its because of the lack of cardio. i was doing a lot.

    ill be going back on it tomorrow. yeah i was doing two a days sometimes... cardio after i wake up and lifting in the evening ... 8 hours apart.... some days.... if they didnt land on the same days sometimes i would do another cardio session (HIIT) in the evening and the regular fasted cardio in the morning.
     
  2. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    fruit and veggies are yum-yum but they don't build much muscle. I'd be interested to know EXACTLY what and WHEN you consume your protein and carbs etc. What do you basically eat? I also wouldn'y try to "fool" your body by giving it a Pro shake one day but not the next etc. For me the absolute golden rule no matter-what is:- 30 gram whey shake half an hour or so before workout and 30 gram whey shake with dextrose about one half hour after even if I'm going to have dinner say an hour later after that.
     
  3. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    i tapper my carbs... more times then none. consume most of my cabrs 1st have of day... (starchy carbs that is)... and get fat towards the end of the night with protein running through both times of day.

    protein and fat right after (30 minutes) fasted cardio... then an hour later hit a well rounded meal without fat.
    before lifting (an hour) starchy carb.... after lifting also... bookend end my carb intake around lifting.

    i try to configure this the best i can... these are the concepts or rubricks i try and follow... im not always perfect but i can say taht im at least 80% good with it.

    fruits and veggies im eating more because jsbrook recommended i focus getting more carbs from that as opposed to just grains... sounds good.. ive never thought of that... i always thought that fruits will hurt me... when infact grains will hurt me more if im not careful... theres more of a risk of gaining fat from grains as opposed to fruits or veggies. so thats why im doing this... i dont have to worry about fruits unless i have serious issues with my insulin.. which im nto sure of. but its worth a try because ive never done it .. having been getting most of my carbs from grains prior.... change is good.
    if it doesnt work ... well thats elliminated as a solution... proccess of elimination here.

    protein is a constant no matter what. trying to get 300 grams a day.
     
  4. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    How long have you been on this "superset" cycle? Supersets get results but can drain your energy if you do them all the time. you seem to be getting everything required for nutrition more or less. Essential fatty acids O.K.? Just my thought but I think your protein intake is a tad high for a guy your size and weight. If you are tired before you even start your body is telling you it doesn't want to do it. Therefore you could:-(1) take a day off here and there from working out (2) change-up your program (3) stop doing supersets (4) go on a mass-only macrocycle for a couple of weeks (5) try doing your ex's in a different order every workout (6) add a greater variety of ex's to your workouts (7) change rest times between sets. Don't forget the old saying "a change is as good as a rest".
     
  5. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    yeh i hear ya. i was going to change up my superset routine to straight sets... regular lifting (back to it)... but then tennisball and rtestes mentioned to me that i should change only if i see no improvment or i get bored.
    right now supersets are doing me good... real good. i feel like i really worked or taxed my muscles.. i had never before in my life done them.. ive always done straights.
    anyways... how many grams of protien do you recommend for my size?... i did some calculations and it told me 300... i used t-nation guide.
     
  6. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    You do not need 300 grams of protein per day. I can promise you that.

    Supplement companies and body builders will say you need about 1.5-2g per pound of muscle. Scientific research says about .8g per pound. I tend to stick to around 1-1.25g per pound.

    Again, there is no magic number. Just make sure you get in at least the minimum, but aim for the middle range and don't overdo it. Too much of anything isn't good either.


    And I saw something about "having" to take whey protein every day, even on off days. That is certainly not true at all. As long as you are still getting enough protein from other sources, it's by no means necessary to have the whey. Just thought I'd throw that in incase now you were thinking you must have it every day when you didn't plan to.
     
  7. krosspyder

    krosspyder Well-Known Member

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    alright cool. so i should am for 180 to 230 grams of protein a day?

    i was doing the whole protien with every meal bit.
     
  8. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with that, it's probably better that way. 30-40g protein over 5-6 meals will give you rougly 150-240g protein per day. Stay in the middle of that range and you'll be right on.
     
  9. tennisball

    tennisball Well-Known Member

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    kross- Do what is working for you! You are getting advice from everywhere and it's all conflicting. The protein debate will never be solved, at least not on this forum. I would honestly trust the t-nation folks, for most of the articles by the top guys there aren't spun (too heavily) and have lots of footnotes.

    Do your reading, everyone. Different bodies will react with differing amount of protein. What works for you may not work for someone else.



     
  10. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    when they say you need x-amount of protein per day thay are talking about TOTAL intake of protein from ALL sources. So if for example a person is knocking back 300 grams of whey shake per day PLUS chicken breats, burgers, nuts, soy, turkey and whatever else he will in all likelyhood be ingesting TOO MUCH protein which has a negative counter-effect on the body. REGARDLESS of what the hucksters of whey will tell you, there DEFINITELY is such a thing as TOO MUCH protein.
     
  11. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    I dunno man, I rarely disagree with your suggestions, but I think saying 300g protein/day for a guy weighing in at 175 lbs. is completely overkill.
     
  12. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    Disagree. Not if the rest of your diet is clean, and you're training with progressive intensity most of the time. I routinely ingest 2-2.2gr of protein per pound of bodyweight a day and have never felt better or lifted heavier than I've done in the last 7 years.

    Since incorporating protein as a main focus of my nutrition, I've gone from an offseason bodyfat pctg. of 10-12%, to 7-9%. Strength has gone up, and it makes dieting down for shows sooooo much easier.
     
  13. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    Mast - what do your ratios look like when you do that?
     
  14. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    Dude, your sig claims you're a bodybuilder. It's completely different. Marathon runners I'm sure need to eat 100s of grams of carbs everyday, doesn't mean those of us who don't run 25 miles a day need to also.

    I didn't say you can't consume 300g protein per day, but there is just no way you can say it's necessary unless you're a professional bodybuilder or weigh over 225 pounds.
     
  15. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    I must apoplogize if I misread somewhere in the post whether you were referring to marathon runners. I was under the impression we were discussing hard resistance weight trainers.

    Again I must disagree with the second portion of your post. It matters not whether one is a competitive bodybuilder or a recreational bodybuilder in quest of a fantastic physique with low to moderate bodyfat levels. My protein recommendations are for both type individuals.
     
  16. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    whO,

    I basically run with two offseason plans:

    3600 calories 40pro 50carb 10fat

    2800 calories 50pro 20carb 30fat

    Once in a blue moon I'll cycle in a 4500calorie plan for 3-4 weeks which totally disrupts my metabolism allowing me to stay lean while reving up the metabolic rate; just in time for my next shift in macro adjustments.
     
  17. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    Sure we were, but regardless it was certainly an appropriate analogy.


    That is fine. I can't stop you from recommending anything. However, I know very few, if any, people who consume 300+g protein per day and they are doing quite well. Therefore, I conclude and stand strong on the fact that it is by no means necessary for one to consume so much protein. It doesn't mean you can't, but people should at least know that it's not necessary under most conditions.
     
  18. RTE

    RTE Well-Known Member

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    Well even when you get your food plan down to the tee. I think your problem lies with your work hours more than anything else. It is a body clock thing, When or if you change jobs, I think things will change, big time.

    So play with the other variables till that time comes.
     
  19. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    KrossSpyder..if iwas you I would figure out my lean body mass percentage in pounds and then multiply that by .08 to get your protein daily requirement. I would ingest this amount on rest days and off days as well as long as the program is in progress. However i would not get all my protein requirements from whey.i would incorporate other proteins too like eggs ,fish,meat etc.. the average egg has about 7 grams of protein. After a workout there is a "window" of absorption for "fast" proteins like whey. This window lasts from 2 to 6 hours at a falling rate. After that you can shovel in bucketloads of whey but it will only be absorbed at a certain rate regardless of the amount. The rest will be expelled from the body along with ammonia,urhea, and calcium and other poisons that the hugely excess protein intakr caused. That is why you need "slow" proteins as well. Definitely "up" the water intake. Somewhere on line there'll be a site that shows protein amounts in foods. Pasta, I think , is a very good "long chain" carb and I would put it at the top of the list ahead of whole grain breads.
     

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