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Couple fasted morning LISS questions

Discussion in 'Fat Loss/Cutting' started by darksleeper25, Dec 15, 2006.

  1. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    You need to buy a heartrate monitor.
    Cheap ones are cheap and do the job.
    All you need is a constant, up-to-date number

    Like others have said, your pace isn't what's important, it's the heart rate.

    Pace-wise, you can't compare yourself to other people unless purhaps you want to compete with them one day.
    But as for heartrate, if i only wanted to do LISS, i would do it around 65-70% of my max heart rate.






    no.
    No, there's no point in stopping at 45minutes.
    45 minutes gets thrown around alot because its the most convienient number for people in their schedules, as well as providing benifit.
    Your body will adapt to whatever you throw at it, as long as you give it time and step it up gradually.

    If you wanted, you could get to the point where you're doing 3 hrs of cardio everyday, assuming you're eating enough carbs in your diet to support this.

    And yes, you will still get the same benifit after 45 minutes, but again, you need to step it up gradually so your body adapts.
    If you step it up too fast, it will be bad on your bones, knees, joints, etc - your body will get pissed off and stressed out, which will release hormones that will go crazy looking for things to eat up (muscle tissue).




    He has also mentioned that he doesnt recommend this to someone starting out. He says this is what works best for him.
    Although, if you wanted to, you probably could.

    I wouldnt do two cardio sessions the same day you're doing weights.
    Your body needs rest.
     
  2. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    I am a true beliver in what SwoleCat said 100%. I have gotten results from LISS more so than any other type of cardio BY FAR.

    I also want to point out that I have never used any of SwoleCats services AT ALL. So dont think this is propaganda at all. Everything I know of SwoleCat has been from stuff I read on this (and other ) boards. Just wanted to point that out.
     
  3. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Probably you are in worse shape than you think, and what you are considering "LISS" is actually higher intensity than LISS. If you are in good shape, LISS is almost imperceptible. I would have to do a little work to put the pictures up here, but I have heart rate graphs of recent workouts that go all the way from LISS to establishing a new lactate threshold, and you can see how long it takes the heart rate to recover after the end of the workout.

    Go get a heart monitor. If you want to use Calories, then go through some simple checks to make sure the Calorie estimates from the heart monitor can be trusted. But in fact heart rate is enough to tell the tale.
     
  4. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    wh0 knows what he's talking about here. I'm 48 and my LACTATE THRESHOLD is over 177 (recently observed). My MHR used to be over 200 (a few months ago) but I don't have that recent a number on it - although it is definitely over 185 going by recent logs. It wouldn't surprise me if it's similar to that 46 year old mentioned here. If he's riding with wh0, he's going to have a high lactate threshold too.

    The age formula really is crap.
     
  5. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    I dont need a HR monitor to tell me that I feel good after performing LISS. I have read from many people that they feel good all day after doing LISS (given your reasoning, I guess they are all not in shape, including SwoleCat - guess hes not in shape :whistle: ). Lets just say that we agree to disagree, because this isnt going anywhere. :tu:
     
    #25 CL117, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2006
  6. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    No, this is going somewhere.
    You may feel good all day after LISS, but don't think it's because of your metabolism ramping up.
    I mean, i agree - when i used to do it every morning i felt great aftarward.
    (I think it has alot to do with it's effect on bloodflow, but i'm not a doctor)

    And "in shape" in this case is referring to cardiovascularly, not %body fat.
    Swolecat isnt in shape because of his cardio - if he happens to be in great shape cardiovascularly it's because of his squat and deadlift routines.
     
  7. Coachese

    Coachese Well-Known Member

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    Which, from my experience, basically is.

    Which I can attest is really no fun whatsoever. Seriously.

    :(

    Agreed. Metabolism is just the measure of the rate your body uses energy. LISS would typically not be stressful enough to require your body to burn more of anything.
     
  8. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    You are confusing "feeling good" with increased metabolism. You can meditate your way to feeling better, but that's not about increased metabolism.

    If you want to actually see what you are getting wrong here, and not have to take anyone's word for it, you can get a heart monitor and check for yourself.

    The response to exercise is pretty well documented, and there isn't much controversy. If you really do LISS, then you stop burning excess Calories almost immediately.

    Here is a heart rate graph of a recent LISS workout of mine and of a lifting workout followed by cardio at the lactate threshold. Now you can see that the LISS workout heart rate is down to below 90 bpm in under two minutes. The high intensity workout heart rate isn't below 100 bpm even 90 minutes later. Note that just taking a shower and walking back to the office after the high intensity workout pushes the heart rate up in the 130-160 bpm range.

    It really is this simple.

    By the way how can I get these images one on top of the other? They keep coming out side by side, which is a little wide.
     

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    #28 zenpharaohs, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2006
  9. darksleeper25

    darksleeper25 Active Member

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    I know, but I figured someone might like it so I posted it to lighten the mood
     
  10. philph

    philph Well-Known Member

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    I used to do stationary cycling for my cardio, but a few weeks ago I started jogging instead.

    I use a Polar RS800 heart rate monitor, which works absolutely great for the job. Looking at a recently downloaded graph I can see that it took me about 90 seconds to reach 80% MHR. I then ran for half an hour, with a 3 minute rest in the middle.

    Heart rate mostly stayed around 82% - 85%. Cadence was around 87, with a few faster spurts where the footpath and weather conditions, etc., allowed. Most of the variations were due to changes in running conditions, obstacles, etc. Breathing was mostly a comfortable (if heavy) 2/2 pattern with just a few minutes of 3/2 during one faster spell. I was able to speak (e.g. to say "no problem" when someone apologised for accidentally blocking my path).

    I supposedly burnt about 372 (excluding warmup and recovery periods). This makes it less energetic than, let's say, an intense leg day at the gym - the latter burning more calories per hour and reaching higher peaks of effort (albeit in far shorter bursts).

    On another note, I must add that real running (in my case, along the canal path) is a whole different world from being stuck indoors on a machine. I used to sit on my stationary bike cursing the sight of the shelfs in my basement, and cursing the boredom and discomfort. Running uses the whole body, and is therefore excellent for cardio. The heart rate gets up to the desired level MUCH more readily than with stationary cycling or rowing, and having real scenery, real people going past, etc, transforms the experience completely.
     
  11. Coachese

    Coachese Well-Known Member

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    While that is cool, 80%+ MHR is too high to be considered LISS, which is what this thread is about...

    :p
     
  12. danny

    danny Active Member

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    From what Ive discovered through my research, LIIS should be done for 45-50 minutes at 70-75% of your max heartrate. I am 32 and 70% of my max is 131. I average 135 for a 50 minute session, build up a sweat but am not exhausted.
     
  13. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    Please elaborate.


    I think 45 minutes is thrown out there so often is because its something people out of shape and new to fitness can achieve without dying, or over-stressing their body.
    The more your body adapts to cardio (by stepping the time/distance up gradually over time) the longer you can go.

    It also depends on your diet.
    Someone on a low carb diet shouldn't go for a 3 hour long bike ride.


    I agree - most of the time this is aerobic, which is what you want for liss.


    What people need to understand is how wrong 220-age is.
    But when you're talking about LISS, knowing your exact MaxHR isnt important.
    You could be 20 bpm off in your estimate, do 70% and still be in the aerobic zone.
    I just dont want people posting to new people that 220-age is the law, because most of the time, it's crap.
     
  14. darksleeper25

    darksleeper25 Active Member

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    I pretty much knew the second I read that that it wasn't the right way to go. Some simple math solved that problem.

    I had my wife take my heart-rate after 20 minutes of my LISS and although I forget the exact number, I was where I needed to be. So far so good.
     
  15. scottdavis0676

    scottdavis0676 Active Member

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    Darksleeper-
    I run for 45 minutes a day, seven days a week on my treadmill. I run at between 7.5-8.0 mph on a 3-5% incline. That may be overly ambituous. I chose that speed interval due to my current fitness level. I didn't pay any mind to what my maximal heart rate was, etc. I believe people make it much more convoluted than it needs to be. It all comes down to trial and error. No two bodies are exactly alike. What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander. I just chose a speed that was taxing enough for me that I was sweating profusely, but yet could still make an utterance if need be. I wanted to see results sooner rather than later so that also militated in my decision.
    The reason I chose to run for 45 minutes is not arbitrary in nature. The lion's share of websites that I sought counsel from suggested that that was the ideal amount of time that needed to be spent performing high intensitiy cardio training to derive maximal fat loss. So like everything, I tried it out and presto, it worked. Tom Venuto is one individual that comes to mind with suggesting that time frame. He is a world renowned strength and conditioning coach who authored "Burn the fat, feed the muscle." This book is very informative and technical, and has helped me tremendously in accomplishing my weight loss goals.
     
  16. darksleeper25

    darksleeper25 Active Member

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    5-6 miles in 45 minutes is pretty damn good if you ask me. I have the same mentality that you do about the heart rate issue. However, I'm still curious about what my heart rate usually is and i would like to keep track of it while running so I'm getting a monitor tomorrow.
     
  17. eleonardo

    eleonardo Well-Known Member

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    I think it's thrown out there, because 45 minutes has worked well for them.
     
  18. eleonardo

    eleonardo Well-Known Member

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    If its for the occasional check up, you can just count your heart rate. Much cheaper :nod:
     
  19. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    50 minutes would work well for them
    67 minutes would work even better for them

    but yes, 45 minutes did work for them
    but so would 39
    maybe even 38
    NOT 37 THOUGH!!! STAY AWAY FROM 37
    36 is good
     
  20. mrgrieves

    mrgrieves Well-Known Member

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    Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?
    Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.
    Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
    Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
    Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
    Ted: I would go for the 7.
    Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
    Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
    Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
    Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
    [Hitchhiker convulses]
    Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
    Ted: That - good point.
    Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
    Ted: Why?
    Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're fuckin' fired!
     

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