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Couple fasted morning LISS questions

Discussion in 'Fat Loss/Cutting' started by darksleeper25, Dec 15, 2006.

  1. darksleeper25

    darksleeper25 Active Member

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    Alright, I've been doing a lot of reading about LISS and fasted cardio. I stared doing it yesterday but I have some questions. Yes, I did find answers to them when i searched but none were definitive so I figured it would be best to ask people who have done this or are doing it.

    1) What pace or heart-rate should I be aiming for? I've read that heart-rate doesn't matter but I've also read that it does. Currently I'm running at a pace of 5mph (12 minute mile). Not sure what my heart-rate is though as I've never checked but my breathing is steady.

    2) Is the above pace too fast, too slow, or about right? I know everyones different but the people that respond, would you mind telling me what pace you run at with morning LISS just so I can get an idea of what range I should be in?

    3) I see everybody posting to run for 45 minutes. Is there a specific reason for that? I ask because i currently run less than that but I'm working my way up to 45. I ran yesterday for 30, today for 31, and plan on increasing one minute per day. Should I stop at 45 minutes? Is there any benefit of running greater than 45 minutes or should that be my stopping point?

    4) I currently am cutting but I read from swole cat in another thread yesterday that he does 2 cardio session per day. Should I be doing that now or is that something I should work my way up to? When/if i do it, is it ok the workout with weights at any time during the day as well, provided I increase calorie and protein intake of course.

    Any other pertinent information you guys and gals feel like posting is also welcome. I'm always willing to learn so please, post away.
     
  2. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    If LISS is what you are trying to do. I dont think running is what you should be doing. It will elevate your heart rate too high.

    Personally, I target a 130-135bpm heart rate for LISS. You can test it by A) purchasing a heart rate monitor ($50) B) Using the handles on the treadmill or what ever (if it has that option) C)Feel your pulse with your finger tips and count for 1 minute.

    I usually do an incline walk at an 8-10% incline at about 3.5 speed on the treadmill. Usually does the trick to get my target heart rate. I do this for 45 min pretty much every morning. Stick to 45 min (which should be no problem to accomplish at the correct target heart rate). Anything more than 45 min is really not needed.

    I wouldnt recommend doing double LISS sessions just yet. You have to make sure your diet is 100% factored in for that. I believe SwoleCat said he only does that for such things as photo-shoots, shows, etc. But I am sure that he factors in extra calories and such so that he doesnt end up breaking down his muscle.
     
  3. pminn

    pminn Well-Known Member

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    Just had my coffee and am about to start my morning LISS. It's true everyone is different and will require varying speeds to affect the heart rate based on their current fitness level. In the past, when I had just started, 4 miles per hour got my heart rate up in the 130's and I was a bit winded. Now, it takes 6 mph to get a response. So, my LISS goes like this:
    3 mph X 1 minute (warming up)
    3.5 mph X 1 minute
    4 mph X 2 minutes
    5 mph X 2 minutes
    4 mph X 1 minute
    5 mph X 2 minutes
    4 mph X 1 minute
    6 mph X 2 minute
    4 mph X 1 minute
    This continues for about 35 minutes for a total of 2.5 miles (approx)
    I'm never winded and my heart rate ranges in the 125-130 range which is about 75-80% of my max heart rate (according to the calculation of 220-age times .75 or .80)
    It would be very interesting for everyone who LISSes to post their routines, just to see how they vary.
     
  4. Shortfuse

    Shortfuse Well-Known Member

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    I believe the formula for your heartrate in doing LISS is ((220-Age) * 65-75% ). I also think 45-60 minutes is recommended because that's the time period where your body will burn more fat. As for double sessions, just stick to the early morning for now, double sessions might be overdoing it especially when just starting out. Hope this helps.
     
  5. pminn

    pminn Well-Known Member

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    Well, I guess I better slow down then. Maybe I could read a book so I'm not bored silly!:)
     
  6. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    Its really funny, untill I purchased a HR Monitor I was way overdoing it. You dont realize how easy it is to go above 130. At 130, I can hold a full conversation...so you should not be huffing and puffing whatsoever if 130-135 is what you are targeting.

    In an attempt to stay sane... I also like to rotate my choice of equipment. Bike for 15 min, elliptical for 15 min, and then incline walk for 15 min. I find the incline walk to be the most doable for longer durations.
     
  7. darksleeper25

    darksleeper25 Active Member

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    Thanks so far for the great replys. So, from what I'm reading is that I should be targeting that heart-rate. As I said before, I don't know right now what my heart-rate is at while running but I too have no problem holding a conversation with my wife while she's cursing at me because I woke her up by running at 4:00am. So, based on that alone, I'm assuming I'm fine. But I know it's better to be safe than sorry so i think I'm going to have my wife take my heart-rate tomorrow. She's a nurse and probably has a heart-rate monitor to use. I'd still lvoe to read what others have to say as well so keep on posting.
     
  8. pminn

    pminn Well-Known Member

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    I just finished. I changed up my program a bit. I dropped the 6 mph and for the last 25 minutes my speed was 3.5 mph while I read three chapters of my book. It was great, before I knew it 45 minutes went by! HR varied from 96 to 120.
     
  9. rapp

    rapp Well-Known Member

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    I do my morning LISS on my recumbent bike. I aim for the mid 130's, which builds up a bit of a sweat on me, but it's hardly tiring.

    I've come up with a solution to my being bored while riding the bike. I pulled it up close to my TV, and start playing video games on my PS2. I know that this may sound too good to be true, but the 45 minutes absolutely fly by. One of the few good ideas that I've ever had...too bad I can't patent it :P
     
  10. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    The heart rate matters, but most of the stuff you read about it "fat burning zone" is too small a part of the true picture to be useful.

    You don't care only about the effect of the exercise during the exercise - you also care about what happens afterwards. If you do LISS? Then nothing happens afterwards - you get fully recovered almost instantly.

    If you do a more intense workout then you do not recover instantly - your body keeps burning Calories for a period of time largely depending on how intense your workout was (not how long). Those Calories are pretty much all from fat. Typically, if you are in good shape, you can burn a very much larger amount of fat with a more intense workout than with LISS.

    So it comes down to this. If you want to burn fat? Any exercise at all will do it. The choice of intensity and type of exercise is about what other things the exercise does for you.
     
  11. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    IMO, I wouldnt say that NOTHING happens after LISS. Im pretty sure that LISS will rev up your metabolism well after its perfromed. In my case, I can actually feel the difference on the days that I do AM LISS vs the days I dont. I feel very awake and energetic all day long. I also feel that if you are worried about muscle delpletion LISS is the safest way of perfroming cardio. Plus...I feel that LISS is so painless...its so easy to do, I almost feel guilty if I dont get up and do it. :tucool:
     
  12. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    No. It doesn't. Get a heart monitor and see for yourself.

    You have to get a good deal past LISS to get the metabolism up much after exercise.
     
  13. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    On what criteria do you judge "over-doing it"?
    Long, fasted, anaerobic exercise on a low carb diet, then yes, you were over-doing it.
    Otherwise, it depends on too many factors.

    And your 130-135 is personal to you only.
    Everyone has a different maxHR, no matter how old they are, so everyone will have different zones they want to be in.
    You mentioning this to the OP could misinform him that he should be in this zone as well.
     
  14. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    Then what exactly is the very noticable increase in energy, alertness, and sense of well being that I feel on days the I perform LISS? Its is not all in my head either...I have been doing it long enough that the whole placebo effect went out the window a LOOOOOng time ago. Its all business now. :cool:

    Personally, I dont think its as cut and dry as you are making it.

    To the original poster, my personal recommendation is for you to try out different things to see what you like better. For me and my body..I have tried many different forms of cardio. I got my best results of fat loss, joint protection, and muscle preservation when doing:

    -LISS
    -45 minutes
    -targeting a HR of 130-135
    -in the AM
    -on an empty stomach

    So switch it up, see what you like, and see what works for your body.
     
  15. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    The OP was asking about LISS. He is 22 and 222lbs. If he wants to perform LISS (like what was asked about by the OP), then my recommendation of 130-135 should be about right.

    as far as overdoing..if I am trying to perfrom LISS and my HR is at 160, I am "over-doing it" for LISS. (I am 26, 220lbs, 15% bf)

    In my posts, I made it a point to say "what I do" , " I fell", "IMO", "what I recommend". SO im not sure what the issue is?
     
  16. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    a) placebo effects have nothing to do with time.

    b) do you take caffeine before cardio? do you feel a sense of accomplishment from waking up early and doing cardio? do you drink alot of water before/during/after cardio? good night's sleep?
    All of these factors will make you feel more energized throughout the day.
    But i think it's the effect on your heart and blood flow that you get from exercise that makes you feel this way.
    I've experienced it too.

    This doesn't mean your metabolism is boosted or you're burning more calories.



    lol

    As i've said earlier, if you're going to recommend someone a heartrate zone, do it in terms of % of your max heart rate, and not raw numbers.
    Those numbers for him are night and day difference in comparison to yours.

    And dont base your max hr on 220-age.
    Find it out the fun way by giving an allout effort for as long as you can sustain it, and do it a few times during the week.
    Whatever number is highest, that's a good aprox of your maxHR.
     
  17. wh0rume

    wh0rume Senior Member

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    I see your point, but that's assuming the 220-age calculation wasn't pure crap.

    I'm 24, my max is 189. it should be 196 using the calculation. ok, close.
    A guy i ride with is 46, his max is 196. It should be 174 using the calculation. Way off.

    And what does a heart rate zone have to do with his weight?





    You should really find your true maxHR.

    If it didnt actually feel like you were overdoing it, you probably weren't.
    You will know when you're in an anaerobic zone because you wont be very happy there.

    And even if you are anaerobic, it still doesnt mean you're overdoing it.
    That all depends on your diet and carb intake.
     
  18. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    When I said placebo, I was trying to say that the upbeat feeling I had was NOT due to the fact that I had actually got up early and accomplished something. I used up that feeling a long time ago. It really is all business now. I know what I have to do. If I do it, I get the results I am looking for. Its just a routine at this point. Its all for a prupose. Ya know what Im trying to say?

    Being that the OP is almost my exact age and weight, I was trying to give him a pretty good estimate of what HR to target. I also followed up a few times with saying "you should see what works for you".

    What really stood out to me is that he said he was trying to perfrom LISS by running, and that he couldnt do it for more than 30min. These factors all point to the fact that he was "over doing it" if he was trying to do LISS. Thats my point.
     
  19. darksleeper25

    darksleeper25 Active Member

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    Oooh an e-brawl. In all seriosuness though, I've learned quite a bit today already from reading the replies. Just so there's no confusion, here's my FULL workout from week to week.

    I do fasted morning cardio every morning at 4:00am because I work at 6:00am. I'm currently running for 31 minutes and will increase the time daily until i get to 45 minutes.

    I also play tournament paintball which is very physically intense and I consider a HIIT session from all the sprinting.

    Monday-Friday I do all my weight workouts on a split routine. The weekends are my off time from weights.


    To whoever said that your metabolism DOESN'T increase after the LISS session, I'd like to point out someone elses comment. Swolecat; I read in a thread just yesterday where he said that your metabolism increases after doing LISS and there were several others who agreed with him. Now, I'm not saying that I disagree with you; I'm just providing another persons insight and asking you to show me why he's wrong.
     
  20. CL117

    CL117 Well-Known Member

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    Lol E-BRAWL, I like that! Nah..no brawl...just different ways of seeing things, thats all.

    All in all...MY RECOMMENDATION (nothing more than my opinion): I (me) would not be running for LISS. Thats my opinion. For LISS I wouldnt run. I would do something a little less. Your best bet would be to just check your heart rate (via a monitor), I think you will be suprised. The fact that you can only do 30 minutes (and your are in good enough condition to play paintball) your are doing more than LISS by running. Thats all im trying to say.
     

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