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Confusion surrounding fitness regime

Discussion in 'Weight Training/Bulking' started by LionKing, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. LionKing

    LionKing Active Member

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    hey, I am currently stuying a degree in Sports Scenices & Exercises. And I have been told to devise a fitness plan for 6 weeks for a particular goal i.e. Muscular strenght , however when I showed my plan to my lecturer, she insisted it was wrong and that I need to work all the muscle groups at least two times per week i.e Biceps. And she insisted that this has been proven that exercises on a muscle group such as biceps needs to be worked at least twice per week to have any decent growth. Can this be correct, and can I have a plan to do everything twice per week if so? My submitted plan looked like this:

    Mon: Back, Biceps
    Tues: Legs, Abs
    Weds: Shoulders, Triceps
    Thurs: Chest (Lower & Upper)
    Fri: REST
    Sat: Chest ( Flat , middle)
    Sun: Cardio

    Note: I have added my sets or reps, nor what exercises I am doing, but they are mostly bg compounds such as deadlifts, squatting etc.
     
  2. George

    George Senior Member

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    You can see significant growth in a muscle group without training it twice a week. That being said, I don't really like your split. Training legs the day after back and shoulders the day before chest has too much overlap. And then the second chest day 48 hours after the first just seems redundant.
    If I were to train every muscle group twice a week this is what it would look like:

    Upper
    Lower
    REST
    Upper
    Lower
    REST
    REST

    I would probably make the first two days geared more towards strength and the second two towards intensity and volume.
     
  3. MannishBoy

    MannishBoy Senior Member

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    I would think looking at something like the Westside model with upper/lower max effort days and dynamic effort work might be an easy way to go as it's well proven. Even the Westside for Skinny Bastards type of plan would probably get what the instructor wants.
     
  4. goonie

    goonie Active Member

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    Probably a good idea to stop trying to apply what you've been reading about in those Muscle Magazine comic books (e.g. FLEX, Muscle and Fitness, etc.) to real world / modern day sports science.

    Two separate days dedicated to "Chest"? Seriously? :blank:
     
  5. Azure

    Azure Active Member

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    I don't see how you can properly lift and 'gain' with only one rest day per week.

    If you're seriously pushing yourself, and taxing your muscles every workout day, by having only one rest day, and then 6 workout days, you might be damaging muscle tissue faster than your body can repair it.

    I know its tough to 'rest'....I hate it too, but it helps.
     
  6. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    She wants you to devise a plan for muscular strength and then chastises you because she feels there will be no "growth".

    Does she want growth or strength?

    Send her over to my gym...I'll be happy to show her how you get muscular strength without working the same body part twice a week.

    If Arthur Jones was around, he'd be happy to show her where she's wrong too.

    It has not been proven that you need to work anything twice a week to get strength or size.

    She sounds like another "armchair page lifter" to me..

    Reads something in a book or hears it from somebody else and figures it's gospel...but never done it herself.

    I'm sure Pete Sisco would be glad to help her out too.
     
  7. why_not_fandy

    why_not_fandy Active Member

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    My arguement would be to ask what type of condition the subject is to begin with. A seasoned lifter may not see results from working a muscle group only once a week, but a sedentary individual most likely would. I'm not familiar with such definitive research although I know the ACSM recommendations for resistance training for health benefits include resistance training twice a week. Perhaps this is what she is referring to?
     
  8. CuTe PoIsOn

    CuTe PoIsOn Active Member

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    Yea I had pm'ed this guy and told him to tell his lecturer that, increasing strength is different to growth in terms of setsxreps and how often training a body part is.
     
  9. CuTe PoIsOn

    CuTe PoIsOn Active Member

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    yeah thaNKS alot guys for the critique, i will be seeing my lecturer tommrow and saying how the guys on jsff do it, and thanks to khris107 my brother

    note: i am posting on my bros account here, just this once as my laptop is off, just to save confusion
     
  10. goonie

    goonie Active Member

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    This is a nice place and all, but I seriously hope you're going back to your instructor carrying a little more credibility than strength training methodology you gathered from an anonymous fitness forum on the Internet. What are you going to cite as credentials? Post count?

    I agree that more context is needed in regards to the training situation you're being asked to propose a solution for.
     
    #10 goonie, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  11. 1FastGTX

    1FastGTX Elite Member
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    Need more info. Generally speaking, that's probably poor advice, but I'm wondering if she said more than what you wrote. I don't want to be unfair to her, when she's not here to defend herself.

    Maybe by "two times per week" she also meant "indirectly." A WS4SB(1) split could have you training biceps two days per week at times, although only "directly" with the curls on a RE-Upper day.

    A general statement like "must train biceps at least twice a week" leaves way too much room for error. There was no mention of rep range, volume, intensity, current fitness level, weight used, other exercises indirectly hitting the biceps, etc.

    What routine would a 210 pound linebacker, in the offseason trying to gain mass, benefit from?

    "At least twice a week" --- 5 sets of 15 rep concentration curls with 2.5 pound pink dumbbells, with some situps here and there, OR

    "Only once per week" -- 2-3 sets of barbell curls with the 45 pound plates, taken to or close to failure, which is just in addition to his heavy sets of bench, deads, squats, rows, dips, etc.

    So that was a little obvious and extreme. :) You get my point though, which is, again, we need more info. Ask her to post here. I would be interested in her replies to someone like Zen, Chic, RTE and Mastover. :)
     
  12. Eagle Tree

    Eagle Tree Active Member

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    :confused:

    Some split, and some full body, some do 3x5x3x or 5x5x3x squats, some splits have a degree of collateral rework. I've seen threads where people here admit to 48 hours being a good minimum time for revisit and that seems generally accepted in fitness science. I accept that splits work well for some of you or you wouldn't do them. I also know some of us lose ground as far as hypertrophy when splitting out to seven days. I've assumed it's the differences in CNS and the ability to lift sufficient weight in one bout.

    I'm just saying, it seems pretty mainstream to hit a group more than once a week doesn't it? The thread makes it sound like the only thing serious lifters are doing are very rigid splits yet that wouldn't appear to be the case. Stronglifts, Starting Strength, Bill Starr, and numerous full body compound and isolation routines are very prevalent and respected. Of course I don't mean hitting biceps twice a week, but in general, hitting muscle groups more than once is often a given even if not intentional, and in other cases quite intentional and effective? I live by the 3x full body because splits wouldn't bring me anything. I'm sure there are a lot of folks like me here and out there??? If we take into account the entire population, multiple bouts in a week probably are more effective, just not for the advanced, bodybuilder or genetically advantaged.
     
  13. HevyMetal

    HevyMetal Well-Known Member

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    Anybody who advises you to adhere to a fixed regimen of workouts on a continuous basis and uses the "x' days per week timetable to establish the basis of any lifting regimen is wrong from the outset.

    Because now you are not going to lift according to your body's needs...you are going to make your body adjust to a timetable instead.

    The body does not work from a rigid timetable...it works from it's own particular needs,pertinent to what you are doing to it.

    Over and over and over and over we see this:-

    "I'm working out 3 times a week fullbody and on my off days I'm doing cardio 'til my ass falls off '...

    then we see the posts here, which are:-

    "Am I doing too much cardio?"
    " Should I go to a split routine?"
    "Working out like hell but not gaining any strength or muscle..??!!"
    " Should I eat more? Not making any gains"
    " Is it o.k. to work out every day?"
    " Not getting DOMS...what the hell is wrong with me ?"
    " Should I switch up to lower reps to get stronger so I'll grow bigger?"
    " Should I do more volume? It's size I'm after right now..."
    " Is it o.k. to work out in the morning and the afternoon as well?"

    "is it o.k. to work out morning, noon and night, seven days a week?'
    " Should I start periodizing because I can't handle this much weight every single workout"
    "if I work out 3 times a week should I go light ,medium, and heavy on Mon.,Wed., and Friday?"

    All these people are locked into a fixed routine be it split or fullbody 3 times a week or fullbody 2 times a week or any other kind of split or any other kind of fullbody.

    The days of the week rule the lifts unfortunately...not the other way around.

    The minute the routine rules you....you are no longer in command.

    For every post about recovery there are 25 posts about how to lift more and another 25 posts on how you should go big or go home.

    It takes a lot longer to fully recover than it does to lift a weight.

    And:- if you are training fullbody twice a week are you going to max Deadlift or Squat to failure twice a week? If you are, eventually you will outlift your recovery or you will be forced to compromise:----that is , you will say " I better start making one of those days a lighter day for squats"

    As soon as you say that to yourself you have just realised that the routine of days per week x workout is now too much and you are forced too cut the weight to allow your body to catch up.

    There are a lot of 'expert' posters around.....people who seem to have the knowledgeable edge and information and after reading these posts you assume they must look like they are the brother of Dorian Yates or Ronnie.

    Yet when they finally post a picture of themselves they look more like Olive Oyl's brother.

    They can talk the talk but they don't walk the walk.

    Muscles can recover in 48 hours....sometimes....other times muscles or muscle groups can take DAYS or even WEEKS to recover.

    The 48 hour rule is basically for volume/low weight oriented "gear guzzling" roid head bb'ers.

    The guy that promotes HST recommends 48 hours for recovery....but one look at his picture will verify gear usage IMO.( And he was a champ bb'er.. so if he says he never touched "juice", he's full of s**t as far as I'm concerned. Ronnie is a "juicer" too. So was Arnold. Bill Pearl denied it for decades...but in the end he "fessed" up.

    Of course a certifying body is going to have a structured routine for you to follow:- they can't just say "work out in tune with your body as it transmits it's needs to you"......if they did they'd have no clout and the organization would be useless.

    So they have to act like authoritarians...all seeing,all knowing, all powerfull.

    And that is why there are so many posters with questions on this site.

    They want to know how the other people are getting results because it isn't working for them on their 2-times week fullbody or their split/upper/lower 4days on 3 days off special or their 5x5 upper/lower/inside-out/ass-over-teakettle dumbell routine or their one-lift-per-day but must be done fasted before 6 o'clock in the morning gig or what have you or whatever.

    People are like small infants...they will believe anything they are told...especially if it is from someone with "credentials"...Why? Because they are incapable of thinking for themselves on such weighty (no pun intended) matters.

    If working your chest every day gets results...then work your chest every day.
    If working your chest once a week gives you better results, then work your chest once a week.

    Experiment until you find that which is going to take you to where you want to be.

    Do not become a robot and don't listen to anyone that is all set to pigeon-hole you into a mindless drone-like routine.

    :)
     

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