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bcaa dose

Discussion in 'Nutrition & Supplements' started by huxald, Apr 1, 2011.

  1. huxald

    huxald Well-Known Member

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    Been looking everywhere for this, but can't find it. What is the per lbm dose for BCAAs?

    thanks
     
  2. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    If your protein intake is adequate (1.25 - 1.75 gram per lb.of bodyweight) exogenous bcaa intake is completely unnecessary and a waste of money. All the extra amino acids above what your body needs will be converted to ammonia and excreted as waste. This is totally my opinion based on my ongoing research and experience. Get your protein requirements for the day, and extra bcaa's are completely unnecessary. 10 years ago my opinion would've been different, but you have to keep up with the studies and personal experience with yourself and your clients.
     
  3. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

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    Obvi I'm not mast but I do 30g pre 30g during and it has been working very well while I'm dieting.
     
  4. huxald

    huxald Well-Known Member

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    Hi Aram, thanks for your reply. Yeah, I remember reading your posts advocating BCAAs in your posts several years ago. I agree with you...but I didn't agree with you when I purchased a couple pounds worth, half a year ago. :doh: So I figure I might as well use it up, rather than throw it out. I am hitting my protein requirements for the day.

    Hey Big_D, I'm not nearly as muscular as you are, so wouldn't 30g x2 be overkill? Where did you get your numbers from. Thanks!
     
  5. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    Yes Huxald, opinions vary and change due to the constant scientific evlolvement of studies and research. Ask Alan Aragon and he will tell you bcaa's are a waste of money. Layne Norton will tell you something else. George Farrah will tell you something else. Phil Hernon will tell you to use black coffee, aspirin, and olive oil for pre workout (yes, I am not joking). I once asked Vince Gironda what the best supplement to use pre and post workout. His response? "Use dessicated liver. But come back to me in another 5 years and I'll probably tell you to use something different." And that just about sums it up perfectly. Vince had a great way with words. :)
     
  6. huxald

    huxald Well-Known Member

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    Lol, I remember when you used to use dessicated liver tabs!

    Yes, I remember reading Alan Aragon mentioning that any additional bcaa's are just going to be excreted, and that if you are absolutely adamant about taking them, then to just use whey...despite having taken them when he was younger. Lyle McDonald seems to agree too. Layne is a big proponent of them...but then again, he's associated with Scivation, so there may be a connection there or not...don't want to accuse anyone of anything. I haven't read the works of any of the other people you mentioned.

    The funny thing is how does science explain people like one of my good friends, who constantly eats whatever he wants (more like whatever is available) and lifts regularly but despite his relatively low protein intake, and carelessness about macro-nutrient ratios, supplements, etc. yet is the dense-est, most shredded person I have ever seen...because genetics cannot be THAT influential. :confused: And more importantly, how can I be like THAT?! :dreamy:

    Well, since the bcaa's are going to be wasted either way, i might as well drink them down....but my supplement budget from now in is going to be focused on a multivitamin, 3g of EPA + DHA daily, calcium, casein (more like a food now), whey, and creatine.
     
    #6 huxald, Apr 3, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  7. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    I still use the liver. :)
    I tried Girond'a method of dosage and i can honestly say for those 8 months i was never stronger with my lifts.

    And here's a little secret regarding your friend... Genetics is EVERYTHING. Or just about as close to EVERYTHING as you can get.

    With your bcaa's the best time to take them IMO would be immediately upon wakeup, just before bed, and between meals. For the workout, I prefer EAA's. Something like True Proteins EAA powder, or Beverly's Mass Amino's, or better yet their Density formula.
     
  8. huxald

    huxald Well-Known Member

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    haha, So if you are still using the liver tabs 5 years from now, i guess I can conclude that they are worthwhile! :lol:

    Hmmm...i guess I'm going to have to look for a bacteriophage with my friends DNA in it! Until then, i guess I'll stick to the basics.

    Awesome, I will dose them as you stated. Thanks!!!
     
  9. dso

    dso Well-Known Member

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    So would the case be the same for Glutamine, being that it is also an amino acid?
     
  10. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is that glutamine won't supply any benefits except for gut and intestinal health. if you are taking in ample protein, you are getting more than enough glutamine.


    A study done by Candow published by Eur J Appl Physiol 86:142-149, 2001 had 31 volunteers do resistance for 6 weeks. One group supplemented glutamine at high doses(0.4 grams per lb of lean muscle), while the other had maltodextrin. Both groups gained muscle at the same rate.

    Another study published in J Strength Cond Res 17(3):425-438, 2003 had 29 on a strength training program. They were in 3 groups, creatine only, placebo, and glutamine and creatine. Both creatine groups gained muscle more than placebo, however no difference between the non-glutamine and the glutamine creatine combo. A seperate study in that issue J Strength Cond Res 17(4):810-816, 2003, using ribose, glutamine, and effervescent creatine showed no difference with the glutamine group.

    Glutamine has also been suggested as a supplement that is better for dieters. The reason is due to some research on glutamine during stress situations. What does science say about that? The only study I could find on muscle preservation during dieting, is published in Journal of Sports Science and Medicine (2003) 2, 163-168. The researchers had 18 athletes for 12 days on a weight loss program, with half taking glutamine(0.16 g/ lb of bodyweight). They found no difference in muscle retention between the glutamine and non glutamine group.

    Bottom line... Save your $$$
     
  11. dso

    dso Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, good info. So for muscle maintenance during fat loss what would you suggest? Sounds like creatine and creatine alone is the best way to go? (along with diet and excerise ofcourse.)
     
  12. Mauidude

    Mauidude Active Member

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    I will defer to whatever Mastover says on this subject because I know he keeps up on all the latest research on supplements. My knowledge of the use of glutamine comes from studies I read years ago by a guy I think was Edmund Burke. From what I remember, he did some studies on athletes and the use of glutamine solely as it related to muscle recovery and minimizing DOMS.

    My experience is purely anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt, as I didn't do any scientific studies. What I gleaned from reading these reports many years ago is that you need to take a sufficient quantity of glutamine to get the desired affect. This usually is in the 5 g. range after working out. Most pills don't contain enough (you'd have to be taking dozens of capsules) so its best to use the powdered form and mix it with your PWO shake.

    Once again, this is purely my own experience, but I've noticed a marked decrease in DOMS and generalized muscle soreness when I take the glutamine in those dosages. Maybe its purely psychological, maybe I'm just more conditioned now, but I do continue to take it.

    As I said, I will defer to Mastover as its been at least ten years since I read these studies and haven't really researched it much since then. Perhaps I need to do that to see what the latest scientific reports are saying on glutamine.

    Like many supplements, it can vary from individual to individual and there are many other factors at play - including your overall nutrition that can have a great bearing on what is happening to your body, regardless of whether you use supplements or not.
     
  13. mastover

    mastover Well-Known Member

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    In the 90's I was one of Charles Poliquin's guinnea pigs for his glutamine protocol. He had a specific intake recommendation for glutamine, and unless you were taking in 50-60 grams of glutamine centered around the training bout, you were just wasting time with 5-10 gram dosages. I never asked him how he came up with this amount, but he had his ways, some of which I disagreed with (especially his fish oil recommendation) and he had a tendency to get extremely huffy, haughty and mad if you disagreed with him. LOL. What results did I experience? Probably a little more cell volumizing effect. I've always had wicked DOMS in the chest after I train pecs and I didn't notice any difference. After this, I started using creatine and HMB and the biggest difference was when dieting down for a show. Not only was I consistently getting stronger on all my lifts even though my calories began to reduce each week, but I was able to maintain and also BUILD muscle during this hypocaloric phase. I would definitely go with creatine, about 4 grams per day taken with a meal of your choice, and if you can afford it, I'd go with HMB as well. Currently I use a creatine/HMB combo that I've used for about 15 years. There's a very marked difference in my strength when I cycle off. Same goes with Dessicated liver. That reminds me, I have to place an order for some more liver! :tucool:

    Doug is also right in that research and studies are constantly evolving and keeping up to date with them all is fine and difficult, but sometimes the best laboratory is the gym and the kitchen.
     
  14. Mauidude

    Mauidude Active Member

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    Well, there you go. Thanks for explaining Aram. That makes a lot of sense. I hope you're not one of those guys that insist on chewing up your dissected liver pills.:barf:

    Based on what said, I'm off to search for some HMB. :D My lab work continues.
     
  15. KoNcEpT61

    KoNcEpT61 Active Member

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    would you recommend HMB pills?

    lots of talk of dessicated liver.. what exactly is it? what does it do?

    sorry for any potential thread hi jacking!
     

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