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Are Atkins/Dukan/Paleo/etc all the same basic thing?

Discussion in 'Fat Loss/Cutting' started by akm3, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. akm3

    akm3 Well-Known Member

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    There is a very popular diet going around called Dukan diet, and I hadn't heard of it. It apparently seem to be a variation on the Atkins diet, this time adding more vegetables and leaner meat.

    I assume this diet is designed to put someone into Ketosis to burn fat instead of carbs as primary fuel.

    I'm not asking about effectiveness, and personally don't really do well on these types of diets (bodybuilder 40/40/20 seems to work best for me) but I want to make sure I'm talking properly about these.

    Are all three of these diets (Atkins / Paleo / Dukan) basically variations of the same concept?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Zilla

    Zilla Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard of the Dukan Diet. There is another one called Primal Blueprint or something like that. That diet eliminates whole grains and from what I've read and promotes eating alot of protein and fat.

    I think all of them are based around the same idea, however, people tinker with them. Atkins if followed the way it is written, it was never meant to be a all protein diet. Veggies and I think some complex carbs are eventually introduced, however, people seem to enjoy bragging about eating a pound of bacon and losing fat while they are doing it.

    Paleo also eliminates grains, but people are encouraged to eat lean proteins, veggies and fruit. I'm following a Paleo diet now as I'm done with so-called top notch diets that leave me with nothing but bloat. That and Paleo is easy to follow. I don't have to mess with counting calories, ect.
     
  3. AcridSaint

    AcridSaint Well-Known Member

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    Is it pre-portioned for you? I'm trying to understand why one wouldn't need to measure/monitor food intake if they are trying to reach set goals.
     
  4. Zilla

    Zilla Well-Known Member

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    I eat the same thing every day for the most part. I know how many calories are in the servings of proteins, veggies and fats I eat. If I'm still hungry at the end of the day or more hungry during the day, I load up on veggies. Broccoli, tomotoes, peppers, cucumbers, ect. I tend to stay away from pototoes and other starchy-type veggies. If I want them, I'll eat them, but I prefer to eat in volume on hungry days instead of loading up on starchy veggies, bread or whatever.

    It isn't for everybody, but it works for me. While food journaling is a good thing, I find it tedious. I think it is easier to go by how I feel and what the measuring tape has to say on a weekly basis.
     
  5. george mavridis

    george mavridis Active Member

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    If you are eating the same thing everyday, you would have worked out the macros & cals once and then know what you need to eat. Why do it everyday if menu is identical everyday?
     
  6. wwwolf

    wwwolf Member

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    Dukan diet is a keto diet that sounds sort of complicated and has various stages where you end up re-introducing more carbs once you've lost weight. It also is big on Oat Bran as a magical ingredient. It's supposedly the most popular diet in France and is getting more press elsewhere because Kate Middleton used it to lose some weight before the royal wedding. There is a big PR push in the USA right now, so it's set up in the front of Barnes and Noble.

    The diets you mention are similar in that they are all keto diets. The specific details of each one seem a bit different. Atkins to me always just sounded like a better name for "The Drinking Man's Diet" which my grandpa used. Paleo also seems to mean different things to different people. My girlfriend's friend was into it and it basically meant she was always eating salad with chicken on it. However, I used to work with some obsessive dudes who were all into it because it meant shooting rabbits and eating deer meat and buying a half of a cow carcass and other ted nugent caveman type stuff.
     
  7. AcridSaint

    AcridSaint Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was thinking. I don't count calories either, because I have a set menu and I figured it out at the beginning. That's not a factor of Mastover's diet, however, it's just how I dealt with meeting his requirements.
     
  8. stallion16

    stallion16 Well-Known Member

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    I've also, never heard of Dukan diet, but I have done primal blueprint/paleo. I can personally testify that I got my best results when following primal blueprint. Paleo is similar to primal blueprint except more strict. Primal blueprint allows fruit, dairy, caffeine, alcohol, and the occasional starchy vegetable. It is much more "lifestyle friendly" than a strict paleo diet (although, I would bet that you would see better/faster results on a paleo diet). It's also important to note that while paleo diets are almost always based on high fat/mod protein/low carb....primal blue print is NOT NECESSARILY low carb because vegetables are allowed to be eaten as much as you want.

    Not only were my results good, but I physically felt the best I've ever have in my life following this diet. Tons of energy, no crashes or anything. I would eat like three meals a day, wait 4-5 hours after lunch to finally workout and my energy was still off the charts...increased in weights every week and performed HIIT after weights 5-7x per week.

    I left primal blueprint for a few months (wanted a taste of those carbs again, haha) and my results, performance, and general well-being subsequently began to deteriorate.

    My diet these days is based on primal blueprint but I do make allowances for carbs/grains here and there. However, I almost always feel better when I leave the grains/sugars out for extended periods of time...indulging in them everyday makes it more and more addictive and tends to bring on cravings/hunger for me.

    As for the question about counting calories....this is my biggest pet peeve with most of these paleo-based diets (including primal blueprint). The authors of these types of diets make it seem like calories don't matter. That is a complete lie. When it comes to weight loss, calorie deficit is king! and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. People enjoy gluttony and they like simple concepts. So you take something like grains and you make them out to be some demonic evil and then you tell people that they can eat as much as they want (gluttony) as long as they stay away from carbs...and it's brilliant marketing and it sells. Counting calories, measuring food, eating small portions, being hungry sometimes does not make for "sexy" marketing or information products/books. But it still true. There is one asterisk here. The closer you eat to a paleo-style diet, the harder it is to overeat. I've never hard of anyone overeating and getting fat on meats and fibrous veggies. People tend to overeat on starchy carbohydrates and sugars more than anything. That's why I didn't have to count calories while following primal blue print. Regardless of whether I was counting or not, I was still in a calorie deficit and that is why I had such great weight loss.

    One more thing, if you're interested in the primal blueprint, check out Mark Sisson's blog (Author of the Primal Blueprint). It's one of the best blogs online. I don't work for Sisson and I don't make any commission off whatever supplements he sells (nor have I bought any of them, nor can I recommend them). But his blog is a wealth of information. Sisson is a great writer and it's very easy to fall into his romantic notions of paleolithic people and their diet patterns, but one caveat-- Don't get swept up in the whole "insulin is the enemy" vibe of that community though. I made a blog post explaining very clearly the faulty logic in making insulin out to be some kind of demon.

    Wow, sorry for the long post guys. Hope some of this rambling helps.
     
    #8 stallion16, Jul 10, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
  9. CharlesDance

    CharlesDance Member

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    Edit: just saw that you don't care anythiing about their effectiveness. I don't know about Atkins really, and have never heard of Dukan or whatever.
     
    #9 CharlesDance, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  10. akm3

    akm3 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I'm interested in both anecdotal and/or research about their effectiveness as well. Since this post I've incorporated a lot of "Primal Blueprint Principles" into my diet (however nothing is strictly off limits or evil, I've just greatly reduced my carb especially refined carbs%, increased my fat% and tried to hit about 160g of protein per day). It is working great for me for energy levels, motivation, satiety, and scale weight loss. I don't know for sure that I'm losing fat or maintaining/increasing muscle, but I will go get a BodPod measurement in the next couple weeks and see what it says.

    So far, I'm a fan of Primal Blueprint.
     
  11. CharlesDance

    CharlesDance Member

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    In short, I believe that the typical version of Paleo that people preach (the hardcore no grains/no legumes/no dairy whatsoever blah blah) is highly unnecessary. Other more notable people share my sentiments such as Alan Aragon and Lyle MacDonald.

    Some trips through PubMed and other research will quickly reveal how much positive health benefits there are from the "evil" food types that Paleo forbids... far more than the negatives they boast.

    Paleo has become sort of bastardized now just like alot of things. The essence of paleo in the beginning was all about what paleothic man ate during that time period, which was typically just animal meat and berries and such: stuff that could be hunted or gathered. Alot of paleo's that really wanna be hardcore stick to that ideal, and it's also the foundation for alot of branched-out versions of it.

    The problem with this is 1. Sources of info on dietary habits of paleolithic man are incredibly speculative, most of which gathered from ethnographic atlas'. 2. (and more importantly) These people ate this way because they were in survival mode 24/7. They didn't know how to make bread, they didn't have advanced agricultural techniques. They often spent hours and hours just hunting or trying to find food, sometimes going for long periods of time without it. That type of diet was NOT optimal for humans, it was merely a representation of what the body can thrive on when it must survive.

    So then you have all these paleo spin-offs where things are changed to meet convenience. Alot of modern paleo groups sort of go by that traditional paleo man approach with some amendments for modern day, but the one thing I see with almost all paleo's, is that they are so terrified of grains because of the "lectins and gluten". Gluten intolerance is incredibly low, I believe a study from celiac.com showed that about 8 in 2000 people in the US were gluten intolerant.

    Once again, alot of research is there supporting hearth healthy benefits of whole grains, seriously inverse trends between grains and decreased risk of CHD, as well as Cholesterol and other things.

    If you wanna take a paleo-style approach as far as making everything you eat natural, thats a good idea. But as far as banning all these specific types of grains and legumes and this and that entirely? So, so unnecessary. A broad balanced diet including at least some of all sorts of foods is definitely ideal . Besides, I've seen far too many incredibly healthy, and incredibly amazing looking people that eat the non-paleo foods on a fairly regularl basis.

    As far as your macronutrient ratios, I wouldn't credit those entirely on mark sisson's blueprint. Less refined carbs, more healthy fats and moderate-high protein are pretty optimal guidelines for most any healthy diet regimen, regardless of whether its paleo or not.

    The ultimate thing is to do what works for you. If you find better results and more motivation via a protocol more based on the primal blueprint or paleo whatever, go for it.
     
  12. Irons

    Irons Well-Known Member

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    I dont trust diets myself :P
    But I'we done some intermittent fasting experimenting and the most significant body weight drops I had was when I did IF and "no Carbs".

    Then again, I only do those for one to two weeks since I get really grumpy of the carbs :\

    And alot of people at work are doing LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) wich sounds alot like the other things.
    They drench their food in gravy and fat and dont eat any carbs if they can avoid it) I find it pretty horrible to eat with a few of them:eek:
     
  13. MannishBoy

    MannishBoy Senior Member

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    That's where a lot of people drop out. It's also around the point where if you stick through it a bit longer, your metabolism shifts and you come out the other side and acclimate to the lower carbs. That happens for a lot of people around 10-14 days in. Energy rebounds, mood improves, etc.

    I never really had issues switching back and forth, but I know a lot of people do.

    I've eaten low carb with weekly carb up day for several years now. Love it, and I've not counted calories in years. But my goal is more maintenance than weight loss. If I was truly cutting, I'd probably be stricter.
     
  14. stallion16

    stallion16 Well-Known Member

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    On many of these diets, you don't necessarily have to eat low-carb, you just have to eat the "right carbs"...right carbs being mostly vegetables and some fruit as well as trace carbs found in nuts, dairy...etc. People forget that a cup of spinach, tomatoes, cucumbers, mixed greens, brussel sprouts...all have carbs, albeit not that many. If you stick to mostly veggies and you eat alot of them, you can get up to 150g of carbs per day (that's alot of veggies) and be very full without too much grumpyness.

    Sometimes people call this a low-carb diet, but I reframe it and think to myself "No, I am eating a normal-carb diet. You are simply on a high-carb diet". I've personally never had issues with mood changes or grumpiness, but these types of physical/psychological changes seem eerily reminiscent of symptoms of addiction/withdrawal.
     

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