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300lb Barbell Squat club.

Discussion in 'Fitness Challenges' started by user786, Dec 23, 2007.

  1. digitalnebula

    digitalnebula Plagiarist

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    Today's workout:
    Squats
    95 x 10
    135 x 8
    185 x 6
    205 x 4
    225 x 1 *New PR
    185 x 5

    A step in the right direction.
     
  2. user786

    user786 Active Member

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    :tu:well done uve overtook on the 225 i havent tried over 198 yet..
    i did the following yesterday

    2x 20 x 132 breathing squats

    1 x 6x154 normal squats

    1x20 x 132 breathing squats

    after that i was totally drained..breathing squats take a lot out of you !!
    try if you get a chance ..your heart will be racing ..your lungs will be burning..and standing for that long period of time with that weight on your back ..:evil:



    Thanks Mastover:lol:
     
  3. digitalnebula

    digitalnebula Plagiarist

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    The 225 was a good strong rep. Not good enough to try the 2nd without a spotter though...

    Now that I have explored a bit and found what my upper range is, I'm going to try and schedule some workouts that are a little more organized... I'm definitely going to try the breathing squats at some point though....
     
  4. odin1642

    odin1642 Active Member

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    In my (limited) experience it's all about the depth - if you want your legs to grow.


    I think you must go below parallel for squats to be effective - but probably not as far as your arse hitting the floor as this may be too joint straining ?


    I think you're better going deep with half the weight than just going a quarter or a half just to put weight on the bar to tell yourself you're getting stronger. Obviously this is a trap many fall into. Personally wasted about a year with the latter approach - result - zilcho leg growth - although my diet was shit also mind.

    Fell into very similar trap with the bench press - am now doing less weight and making sure I lower it to touch the chest every rep - and indeed hold it there for half a second or so - before pushing back up. Again you see loads of guys not lowering the bar fully, just so they can tell themselves they're benching more.
     
  5. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    This is completely untrue, and it has been known for many years that squats that do not even go quite as far as parallel to be effective (although they should get to within 5-10 degrees of parallel). My brother told me he read this in Hatfield's book, which means it was known as far back as the 1970's.

    It is also known that once the knee goes past 90 degrees of flexion, the load on the quadriceps is maxed out; the increased stress hits ligament a lot more. This is why it is true that squats that do not go deep are safer in the long run than squats that go deep (despite what you have been told, and will be told again).

    I've posted detailed references to this sort of information several times on JSF so you can search it up if you want.
     
  6. odin1642

    odin1642 Active Member

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    Okay, thanks. A trainer guy in the gym told me about a year ago not to go below parallel, it was bad for the knees, and he said you didn't have to go that deep for squats to be effective.

    However this approach got me SFA leg growth. So more recently I thought I'll go a bit below parallel. Plus I'd read a couple of things, including one article by Chad Waterbury on T Nation who said guys should go below parallel for squats to be effective and that guys who only did half or quarter movement squats or whatever tend to have very poor leg development. Here's the article :-

    http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1597750&cr=


    I also read somewhere else (can't remember where) that it was a myth that going low could cause knee damage. It could just have been my shit diet that meant my legs didn't grow.
     
  7. Gorilla

    Gorilla Active Member

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    Then I suppose Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore are full of crap then? The way a powerlifter squats for competition and a trainee squats to develop strength are completely different.
     
  8. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    A: Your trainer is correct.

    B: I've read that Waterbury stuff, and it's wrong. I don't know why he doesn't know better. But for about eight years now there are careful high quality studies of the mechanics of the squat which pretty much confirm what a lot of people were saying for years - deep squats are trouble in the long run.

    C: As far as leg development? Mastover is the probably the guy on this site with the best looking leg development and he once told me that he squats to parallel. It really doesn't seem to be holding him back.
     
  9. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

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    I think he does full squats actually. :)
     
  10. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Well not normally, at least when he posted this:

    Note the part about the guy he knows who uses walkouts with the occasional 1/4 squat.
     
  11. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I can't find the post right now but when I asked him about his VMO development he said it was pretty much all from full squats.
     
  12. Gorilla

    Gorilla Active Member

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    Full squats will always be the safest and most efficient way to build strength. Any basic knowledge of anatomy and the mechanics of the human body will make that crystal clear. It should also be pointed out that partial squats allow an individual to move considerably more weight than they may be able to while performing a full squat. The end result is that you open yourself to an increase in back injury since you are essentially lifting more weight than you and your body may be ready for.
     
  13. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

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    I believe full squats are safe if one has the prerequisite flexibility and knows the possible risks, but I would NOT say they are the safest most efficient way of building strength. Nor would I recommend them to people with less than 1.5 years of training experience. Partial squats have their place, especially if looking to improve deadlift numbers/build a big back.
     
  14. zenpharaohs

    zenpharaohs Elite Member
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    Except that recent careful studies at a prominent research center (Coach K. Center at Duke) on highly trained squatters (their data included a national powerlifting championship) contradicts this.

    I like both my menisci, and all my cruciate and collateral ligaments the way they are.

    And as usual, I will point to the historical examples of people who really understand what they are doing avoiding deep squats. Often I use these examples:

    As an Olympic weightlifter and many times U.S.A. national champion, you would expect that he has a clue, and a good reason for avoiding deep squats.

    It's so easy to find people blithely repeating the religion of deep squats. Well, the evidence against it is quite easy to find. When will the deep squat advocates actually addressing the serious questions of safety that have been carefully observed as well as having been suspected by trainers for generations?

    You want it from a famous squatter as opposed to scientists or Olympic style lifters? Here it is from Fred Hatfield:

    So there you have Fred knocking the acute flexion of the knee and recommending parallel squats for most people instead.

    As far as I can tell, you have to have an exceptional requirement to justify doing deep squats on any regular basis.
     
  15. squatguy20

    squatguy20 Active Member

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  16. Gorilla

    Gorilla Active Member

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    Will be back a bit later with a more detailed response, however some points I like to make for now;

    Scientific studies mean squat to me (pun intended). Now that we have that part out of the way:

    Yes, but the key point here is that he is an olympic weightlifter. Most powerlifters utilize stance and form that is not necessarily recommended for the average lifter. Furthermore, I do appreciate that there are individuals who use partial squats to increase strength in certain lifts, however, that does not remove the fact that it increases the possibility for spinal injury due to the fact that you are potentially lifting more than your body is prepared to lift. A guy like him probably already has a decent set of fully developed muscles and can get away with that kind of training.


    Not really sure I see where he is knocking the deep squat. He is merely suggesting that those training for athletic sport who do not possess a safety bar, try not to go below parallel. Seems to me that he feels a deep squat is perfectly fine if you have this device. Again, open to correction here, but I think there is a misunderstanding between a proper deep squat and a sloppy ass to the grass attempt.
     
  17. chicanerous

    chicanerous Elite Member
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    Can you clarify what does mean something to you then?
     
    #37 chicanerous, Jan 20, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  18. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

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    Haha what is this? Are you trying to throwback to the days of Galileo vs. Aristotalian thought?
     
  19. Gorilla

    Gorilla Active Member

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    Experience.
     
  20. Gorilla

    Gorilla Active Member

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    Nope. I just feel that scientific studies are not the be all and end all. Not saying that some cannot be accurate, however, there have been plenty of times where these studies are either faulty or biased. To me, individual experience speaks louder in most cases. Its very easy to post links to various studies which prove your point and ignore studies which disprove it on a forum. By all means, if you want to base all your decisions on what is published on pub med, than be my guest. This would not be the first time a study got it wrong, and you all know that.
     
    #40 Gorilla, Jan 20, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008

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