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12-weeks to single digit BF! Please critique my diet

Discussion in 'Fat Loss/Cutting' started by KingSmono, Oct 24, 2006.

  1. lil_dave

    lil_dave Well-Known Member

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    you dont want to get into single digits with your current lbm..
    I would eat maintence levels while lifting hard..
    maybe do what you were planning on doing and then get in an extra couple hundred calories per day from fats.

    What time of the day are you lifting?
    Your meals are a little screwed up.. try to stay under 10 grams of fat if you are having a protein/carb meal.. and try to stay under 10 grams of carbs if you are having a protein/fat meal (fiber doesnt count towards carb intake)


    and for a bit of humour read this
    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=AEACA53B957068E38FA82C7BB7134B7B.hydra?id=1308241
     
  2. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Haha, thanks for that article. It was like that guy wrote that, aimed directly at me. And thanks for the carb/fat tips... I heard to divide everything equally, between all 6 meals. :confused:

    I think everyone here may be right though... I probably need to pack on some more LBM before cutting that low. It's hard for me to determine what "maintenance" is though... every calculator has different results. And, how much do I add to "maintenance" to gain mass though? 200 calories per day over maintenance? Even with all my cardio? Or cut out the cardio?

    -Allen

    Oh, and that article NAILED it. This is the body I want in ~8 months for the honeymoon. Is that even possible?
     
    #22 KingSmono, Oct 26, 2006
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2006
  3. lil_dave

    lil_dave Well-Known Member

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    I think so..

    Could you answer the question on what time of the day you train though.
    I'm heading to work now but if you answer that I'll see if I can figure out something when I get home (I'm sure other ppl will throw in some input too)
     
  4. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Awesome! Workouts are going to be Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 8:00 p.m.
     
  5. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely attainable, but it's not going to be easy. You'll have to eat very well and focus on lifting weights. Cardio will not get you that physique by any means, you have a lot of muscle to build. The good thing is, you're at a great place to start.

    I'd eat eat at least 2200 calories/day for now, probably more, but you can start there. I'd add roughly 100-200 calories/week until you notice fat coming on (some fat is okay, but it shouldn't be too noticeable).

    I'm not very big on the whole splitting carbs and fats. High GI carbs and fats, maybe. However, you should for the most part be eating primarily complex, low GI carbs and healthy fats, so I wouldn't let it concern you. That said, I'd consider slightly cycling carbs, so on lower carb days you'd naturally split carbs and fat up into different meals.

    Aim for 6 solid meals, each around 300-400 calories. Wanna do 5 meals? Fine, just make it 400-500 calories each.

    I'm also a big fan of a one day free for all. Eat whatever the hell you want.


    Your lifting workout IMO should be either a 3 day/week full body routine (I can point you to some I'd recommend if you'd like) or a 4 day split routine. I'd probably opt for the 3 day full body, but that's your choice.


    Cardio I would do either low intensity fasted for like 40-45 mins if you prefer morning cardio, or my preference is HIIT or high intensity steady state cardio that is not fasted. Time doesn't matter so long as you've eaten about 1.5-2 hours prior.


    Bottom line is, if you are consistently eating properly and missing few, if any, training days, you will definitely see some great things happen. It doesn't happen overnight, but you've got 8 solid months and the sooner you get started, the better.
     
  6. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Thanks for the information! I'll start working on a potential 2200 diet plan tonight... Yes, I'd love information on those full-body workouts. If you could point me in the right direction, that'd be great! Also, I'm not very familiar with how to cycle carbs... on low days, how low are we talkin? And on high days, how high are we talkin? Also, how much cardio do you recommend, to keep the bf% from rising too high? (I'm guessing 4 days of cardio is too much.....)

    -Allen

    Oh, and what kind of macronutrient breakdown should I am for? Not the typical 40/30/30 if I'm cycling carbs right?
     
  7. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    As for cardio, it really depends on the person. Some people can do cardio 7x/week and still pack on muscle, while other people will lose muscle from looking at a treadmill. Personally, I'm a big fan of Lift, Cardio, Lift, Cardio, Lift, Cardio, Off. And if you're not putting on enough muscle and fat gain is minimal or you're even losing fat (which is more likely going to happen) then drop one of the cardio days.

    Ratios are meaningless IMHO so long as you're getting the minimum requirement of each macro. I've cut successfully on every ratio there is (well, not every, but several). Since you are trying to pack on a good amount of muscle, I wouldn't dip too low with the carbs. Maybe something like this:

    Lifting days - 150-175g carbs, 175g protein, rest from fat
    Non-lifting days - 100-125g carbs, 200g protein, rest from fat
    Free day - 250+g carbs, rest from fat/protein

    I gotta get back to work, more later...
     
  8. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Oh man, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

    I'll have my "new" diet up tomorrow, for more tweaking... Thanks again!!

    By the way, I checked out your Waterbury Summer Project Journal... :jumping: :bow: :claplow: :drool: lookin' great man, you are definitely an inspiration!

    -Allen
     
    #28 KingSmono, Oct 26, 2006
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2006
  9. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Oh, one more question... Does "rest from fat" mean:

    1.) Take a rest from fat? (probably not, because it's by every day...)
    or
    2.) Get the rest of my daily calories from fat? (probably, but just want to be sure...)

    Assuming it's number 2, that would mean that on som days, I'm getting ~70-80 grams of fat a day... is that too much?
     
    #29 KingSmono, Oct 27, 2006
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2006
  10. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    Good question... it means the rest of your calories from fat/protein. However, it doesn't mean the rest of your normal 2200 (or whatever you decide on). It just means try to get a lot more carbs than normal and whatever amount of fat/protein come with it. Aim for like 500-1000+ more calories than normal that day.

    I didn't get a chance to look up some links for routines, I will hopefully have time after work today. However, before I do, what equipment will you have to work with and how much, if any, weight training experience do you have?
     
  11. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    I just whipped up some Weight Lifting and Non Weight Lifting Nutrition Schedules... but then I just read what you said about not filling the rest of the ~2200 calories with calories from fat... that's a lot of fat! So they will need fine-tuning, no doubt. But hey, it's a starting place.

    I'll post them below. (Oh, and I've changed all of my .bmp files to .gif, for MUCH faster loading times! Little less quality though... sorry about that)

    As for gym equipment, over the last few days, I've been working like a mad-man turning my garage into a gym. As you can tell, I'm getting very serious about this transformation! However, I have almost no weightlifting experience. :( I mean sure, I've gone to the gym with some buddy's and tossed some weights around, but never anything serious, nor structured.

    The equipment I have:
    -Ironmaster Superbench with leg ext/leg curl, sit-up/crunch attachments
    -Ironmaster Quick Lock Dumbells (75 lbs)
    -Body-Solid Multi-Press Rack
    -Body-Solid Deluxe Vertical Knee Raise
    -2 Olympic 300# sets (with 2 Oly. Barbells, for supersetting)
    -Stability Ball

    Here are my latest nutritional schedules.

    Non-Lifting Days: (I know, that's a crap-load of peas... I'll probably sub some of them for something else.)
    Oh, just noticed... I cut off the titles! Doh!
    They go in this order:
    Calories, Protein (g), Carbs (g), Fat (g), Fiber (g)
    [​IMG]


    Lifting Days:
    Calories, Protein (g), Carbs (g), Fat (g), Fiber (g)
    [​IMG]
     
  12. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if you misunderstood me. All I meant was that on the day you're "carbing up" -- you're eating whatever you want for that day. Try to get at least about 150g protein, 75g fat and 250g carbs but that should happen naturally since you'll be eating more than normal. However, that is only just over 2200 calories and on this day you should be aiming for closer to 3000-3500, so make up the extra 800-1500 calories by whatever means you wish.

    I see, and that's great which I why myself and others are glad to help you. It's great seeing someone so motivated. The lack of weight training is good and bad at the same time. Good because you will likely encounter some great growth quickly and easily since your body is new to lifting. Bad because a lot of the exercises I'd want you to perform since they are the best for packing on mass require some degree of experience. That said, as long as you are smart and don't let your ego control the amount of weight on the bar, there is no reason why you can't incorporate some of the more advanced exercises into your routine and focus strictly on form until you're comfortable with the movements.

    I'm jealous...

    A few potential problems.

    1) Am I correct in assuming your carb totals are before you subtract fiber? For example, if a food has 20g of carbs and 5g of fiber, you really are only getting 15g of carbs, or 60 calories as opposed to 80 calories. If I'm correct, you are about 300-400 calories short each day. The problem is all your carbs pretty much come from green vegetables which I don't even count in my calories when I do count them. Eating them is great, but find some other carb sources to add to those meals that don't have almost as much fiber as they do carbs. Examples below.

    2) :sleep: Are you really going to be able to stick to such a painfully boring diet for several months? If so, more power to you, but personally I'd be diving for the donuts every chance I got on a diet like that. I highly recommend you consider adding many more sources of carbs/proteins/fats. Examples of other good sources:

    Protein - tuna or any white fish, shrimp, lean beef, turkey, eggs
    Carbs - Sweet potatoes, beans, brown rice, low-fat chili, whole wheat pasta, 100% whole wheat bread, Fruits
    Fats - peanut butter, salmon, olive oil, walnuts, pecans

    That's just a small list, there's so much more and I highly suggest you consider diversifying your diet a bit or you might end up driving yourself nuts.

    3) There is no concrete rule for pre-post workout nutrition. However, personally, when lifting in the evening I like to try and adhere to the following:

    1.5-2 hours before lifting: Complex carbs and protein
    ASAP After lifting: Complex/simple carbs and protein
    1-2 hours later: Complex carbs, healthy fats, protein

    I don't use any supplements other than BCAAs, so I'm not a fan of the whey/dex shake PWO. However, I don't discourage it. If you already have the supps and wish to use that approach, I'd suggest:

    1.5-2 hours before lifting: Complex carbs and protein
    ASAP After lifting: Whey/Dex/Malto
    1-1.5 hours later: Complex carbs, healthy fats, protein
     
  13. MannishBoy

    MannishBoy Senior Member

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    With that equipment, you can do a lot. Looks like excellent choices to start with. Very similar to what I have with the difference being I've got a cheap cage with a pulley system (that I wish I knew more about before I bought, but that definitely gets the job done).

    I'll just say you look like you've had the spark that generally leads to people following through on their goals. All of the successful people here have that IMO. Lots of others pass through but give up quickly.

    Looks like you are putting together a good plan. :tu:
     
  14. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Yes, I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying!! I was asking about what you meant, in general, by "rest from fat", but I think you were specifically referring to the "free-day". We're on the same page now though. :)


    Thanks! I'm all about the slow and steady approach... the only two things that can stand between me and my goals are sickness, and injury. And I want to do whatever I can to prevent either of those!! If starting out light, until my form/technique are developed... so-be-it.

    Yes, that's correct. I'd never heard that total carbs = carbs - fiber... thanks for the heads up.

    Haha! There are two reasons for this... 1.) I am extremely busy during the week, so time for cooking, and preparing meals are very tight. That said, I'd like to be able to prepare most of my meals for the week on Sunday, and store them in the fridge/freezer. It'd be easy to cook up a whole boat-load of chicken, and a huge pot of peas, then portion em out into tupperwares for meals on the fly during the week.

    2.) Right now, I'm looking at food as "fuel" for my body, instead of as a reward, or treat. Once I find foods I like, (cottage cheese, chicken, veggies...) that will help me reach my goals, I have no problem eating them day-in and day-out! I'm sure I'll throw in some substitutions every once in a while, but for the most part, I'm okay with "boring" if it helps me get the job done.


    Great, I'll incorporate this into my next revision of the diet! Thanks again for taking the time to help me, I really appreciate it.

    -Allen
     
  15. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Thank you! :) This is such an amazing forum. The people here blow me away. Glad I stumbled on this little corner of the web. Hopefully I'll be here for a while!! :bb:
     
  16. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    Yes, sorry. Anytime I said "rest from...", I meant the rest of the calories for that day, whatever the caloric goal is, should come from those macronutrients.

    Good to hear. Slow and steady is the best way to go when you have the time, and you do.

    No problem. It's important to know or you could be grossly undereating, especially with how much fiber you plan to take in.

    Understood. More power to ya! Just wanted to make sure it wasn't because you thought you had to eat only those foods.


    Glad I can help. I'll post up some lifting programs this evening.
     
  17. TylerGred

    TylerGred Well-Known Member

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  18. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Thanks for the links. My priorities have shifted over the past few days, and instead of cutting down to single-digit bf, I'm going to lay down some lean body mass first. But when the cutting begins, I'll definitely check those articles out!
     
  19. KingSmono

    KingSmono Active Member

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    Okay, I've re-done my diet sheets one more time, to add more complex carbs, and to account for the high fiber. If you take the TOTAL carbs at the end of the day, and subtract the TOTAL grams of fiber, I think I'm in the ideal zones for Weight Lifting / Non Lifting Days. Also, I've slightly re-worked the pre-post workout meals.

    I don't have a problem repeating this process 1,000 times, until I get something that I'm comfortable with, and confident that will get me going in the right direction. Thanks!!

    Non Weight-Lifting Days:
    [​IMG]


    Weight-Lifting Days:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. karatetricker

    karatetricker Well-Known Member

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    Looking better, I have a few comments -

    1) You are relying too much on protein powder, IMO. I would prefer if it were either only PWO or, at most, in two of your meals. You'd be much better suited having cottage cheese in that last meal and replacing the cottage cheese in an earlier meal with another protein source.

    2) Calories still seem low. I did the math (P * 4) + (C-Fib * 4) + (Fat * 9) and on non lifting days it was around 1900 and lifting days 2000. That's fine if you're cutting, but not if you're trying to build any appreciable amount of muscle. So either I'm missing something, or you still need to up the calories.

    3) PWO, I would add another 15g of protein and 20g of carbs. Try to push that meal to just over 400 cals.

    4) What kind of cardio are you going to do and when (i.e. what time)?

    5) After you answer the above, I'll show how I might rearrange some of the macros in certain meals a bit. Not necessary, but potentially helpful.
     

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