Please Support Our Sponsors and Advertisers!
JSF Amazon Mall
AtLarge Nutrition Results
John Stone Fitness
Brick City Bicycles

  
Go Back   John Stone Fitness Forums > Main Fitness Forums > Weight/Strength Training & Bulking

Weight/Strength Training & Bulking Weight/strength training exercises, programs, techniques.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

3 x 5 (Starting Strength) vs. 5 x 5 (Stronglifts)
Old Fri, November 21st, 2008, 01:11 PM   #1
KT Monahan
Senior Member
 
KT Monahan's Avatar
 
KT Monahan is offline
Join Date: Jan 5th, 2007
Location: Cambridge, MA
Age: 42
Posts: 972
Sex: Male
Stats: 5'11" - 200 lbs - @23+% BF
Default 3 x 5 (Starting Strength) vs. 5 x 5 (Stronglifts)

Interested in hearing people's results and stories regarding a 3x5 compound routine like Starting Strength versus a 5 x 5 compound routine like Stronglifts. What gave you the best strength gains in what amount of time? In which did you plateau earlier? Did either give you significant hypertrophy? If so, which?

Just interested in hearing what people have to say about these two very similar, yet different approaches.
  Reply With Quote

Old Fri, November 21st, 2008, 03:26 PM   #2
Sparx88
Senior Member
 
Sparx88's Avatar
 
Sparx88 is offline
Join Date: Nov 3rd, 2008
Location: U.S.
Posts: 792
Sex: Male
Default

Quote:
Interested in hearing people's results and stories regarding a 3x5 compound routine like Starting Strength versus a 5 x 5 compound routine like Stronglifts. What gave you the best strength gains in what amount of time? In which did you plateau earlier? Did either give you significant hypertrophy? If so, which?
I would like to know other opinions as well. My direct goal is hypertrophy.

I reciently started a 5X5 program. My thought was more "time" under load = more fiber damage. Of course I have no evidence proving my logic true. Would definantly like to hear from someone who has done both.
  Reply With Quote

Old Fri, November 21st, 2008, 05:16 PM   #3
anfeyd
Senior Member
 
anfeyd is offline
Join Date: Sep 2nd, 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 360
Sex: Male
Stats: Six feet and three inches.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KT Monahan View Post
Interested in hearing people's results and stories regarding a 3x5 compound routine like Starting Strength versus a 5 x 5 compound routine like Stronglifts. What gave you the best strength gains in what amount of time? In which did you plateau earlier? Did either give you significant hypertrophy? If so, which?

Just interested in hearing what people have to say about these two very similar, yet different approaches.

Stronglifts is basically just a rip off of Starting Strength. Starting Strength (squat, bench, press, power clean, deadlift, pull ups), for a novice, is a superior program.

The only reason (in my opinion) people embark on Stronglift's program is because they're caught up in the 'more is better' philosophy.

5x5 squats 3x per week will be too hard to recover from eventually, and you will stall a lot earlier as compared to three sets of five. If you don't follow my advice and embark on stronglifts, once you plateau you will find that if you drop down to three sets of five you will continue to make progress.

Both routines follow the premise of adding weight to the bar in a linear fashion (every workout). In which case the only missing part of the equation as far as hypertrophy is concerned is caloric excess. This is why many people who want to gain bodyweight are advised to drink a gallon of whole milk daily. Those who aren't afraid of fat gain make miraculous transformations on starting strength.

If you want size, take the six or so months and do SS, and eat. If you're really skinny, when I say eat, I'm talking 7000 kcals/day. If you don't gain size on this program, don't blame the program, blame yourself for not eating enough.
  Reply With Quote

Old Sat, November 22nd, 2008, 06:56 PM   #4
roger_mexico
New Member
 
roger_mexico is offline
Join Date: Dec 14th, 2007
Posts: 6
Sex: Male
Default

I've done both.

Starting Strength was the first program I ever tried, and, yeah, like everyone says it's great. Definitely do that if you're just starting.

Just recently I tried the Stronglifts 5x5 Advanced because I figured, hey, I've done Starting Strength and I can squat 1.5x my bodyweight so why not give it a try.

It's a tough program. It's worth noting that, for me at least, their spreadsheets massively overshot my weekly numbers. Actually, really what happened was that I was way too ambitious in my starting numbers. I was doing PRs in Week 3, but my legs were toast by Week 4. Basically, the advanced version of Stronglifts has a four week volume phase (at 5x5) followed by an intensity phase (at 3x3). I just couldn't continue with the squats (at least not at any meaningful depth) by Week 4.

Still, I definitely improved on squats and bench on this program, so it wasn't a complete waste by any means. I'm definitely going to give it a try again in the future. Still, you should know that the Advanced version at least is tricky. Rippetoe is less so.
  Reply With Quote

Old Mon, November 24th, 2008, 09:50 AM   #5
Timbermiko
Senior Member
 
Timbermiko's Avatar
 
Timbermiko is offline
Join Date: Jun 23rd, 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 1,418
Sex: Male
Stats: Loud $ Proud....
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anfeyd View Post
Stronglifts is basically just a rip off of Starting Strength. Starting Strength (squat, bench, press, power clean, deadlift, pull ups), for a novice, is a superior program.
And Ripptoe, I dare say ripped SS from a few Hardgainer authors such as John Christy.

Christy was using this protocol before Ripp "mainstreamed" the philosophy.
  Reply With Quote

Old Mon, November 24th, 2008, 10:50 AM   #6
chris mason
Official Sponsor - www.atlargenutrition.com
 
chris mason is offline
Join Date: Dec 26th, 2004
Posts: 2,139
Sex: Male
Default

and someone else was using all of the strategies outlined long before anyone named here...

Ok, first, the concept of more fiber damage and TUT equating to greater hypertrophy is valid, but it is complicated by the ability to recover from said exercise. That is the problem with set routines, your ability to recover can really vary from day to day, week to week etc.

If forced to choose, I would always pick the lower volume routine especially when a relatively high intensity of effort is involved.
  Reply With Quote

Old Mon, November 24th, 2008, 09:57 PM   #7
Dizmal
Senior Member
 
Dizmal's Avatar
 
Dizmal is offline
Join Date: Jun 16th, 2005
Age: 36
Posts: 199
Sex: Male
Default

Once getting into the PR territory where you're pushing your 5 rep max every other day and trying to add weight to it. The 5x5 gets to be killer on the joints.

I also stalled out, as does everyone. I never really deloaded, which maybe I should have. I just kept pushing through untill I could complete the full 5x5. But I usually got it by the 3rd workout and theat's when the hard deload is called for. So... Maybe I could have done some things differently. But I really encourage the programs excersizes.

I gained some good mass and strength in 3 months off of the 5x5. I'm going to go to the 3x5 now and I should be able to make gains again hopefully without killing my joints and in turn, not kill my will to keep adding weight. But, I found that incorporating LISS which I didn't before. Has helped keep things lubed up and flowing quite well. I can run up stairs again, skipping steps. Before I hobbled up them like an old man. It was depressing and hurt me mentally as well.

After all. What good is size and strength when you're decrepit?

Last edited by Dizmal; Mon, November 24th, 2008 at 10:00 PM..
  Reply With Quote

Old Tue, November 25th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #8
Timbermiko
Senior Member
 
Timbermiko's Avatar
 
Timbermiko is offline
Join Date: Jun 23rd, 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 1,418
Sex: Male
Stats: Loud $ Proud....
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
and someone else was using all of the strategies outlined long before anyone named here...

Ok, first, the concept of more fiber damage and TUT equating to greater hypertrophy is valid, but it is complicated by the ability to recover from said exercise. That is the problem with set routines, your ability to recover can really vary from day to day, week to week etc.

If forced to choose, I would always pick the lower volume routine especially when a relatively high intensity of effort is involved.

You're right. Peary Rader, Brad Steiner, Ken Leistner ..to name a few....
  Reply With Quote

Old Wed, November 26th, 2008, 06:50 PM   #9
anoopbal
Senior Member
 
anoopbal is offline
Join Date: Jun 22nd, 2008
Posts: 152
Sex: Male
Default

Volume is a matter of gradually improving you conditioning.

With 5 sets you are just getting a lot of practise on that particular lift. But the downside is the fatigue if you don't pick the right weights.

Bill Starr's 5* 5 is the original program. The rest are just variations of it.
  Reply With Quote

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Facebook   Twitter   RSS

Copyright 2004 - 2014, John Stone Fitness LLC