How many reps?

[CarLover78]

I am in the bulking phase of my quest. I am 29, 5'8" 175lbs. I am doing a 4 day split.

Day 1 - chest
day 2 - bi, tri
day 3 - delts, traps
day 4 - legs and back

I have about 4 exercies for each day, plus abs each day and also 20 minutes of cardio each day.

I am doing between 6-8 reps, so basically the heaviest weight I can do. I am not sure what is better to do , 6 to 8 or 12-15 reps. I am going for strength and muscle tone. I need to be ripped by age 30, which is december of this year, that is my goal.

Here is my pic.

[JoeSchmo]

Well -- getting "ripped" is going to largely be influenced by your diet rather than the rep ranges you choose. But, you mention strength...and, speaking very generally, 6-8 reps is more effective for strength purposes than 12-15.

[CarLover78]

I pretty much have my diet under control.

breakfast
oatmeal and a protein shake

lunch
normally a salad with grilled chicken or chicken and veggies

dinner
normally a salad with grilled chicken or chicken and veggies

protein shake later when I get hungry or after workout

[jkugelman]

Originally Posted by CarLover78

I pretty much have my diet under control.

breakfast
oatmeal and a protein shake

lunch
normally a salad with grilled chicken or chicken and veggies

dinner
normally a salad with grilled chicken or chicken and veggies

protein shake later when I get hungry or after workout

That doesn't sound like enough food for a bulk. How many calories are you eating per day?

[CarLover78]

I try to keep my calories around 1800 to 2000, Maybe a little more with my snacks in between meals, mixed nuts and pistachios.

[mason]

That definitely doesn't seem like enough calories for a bulk. That's what I consume to lose weight. I'll let one of the more experienced members step in and comment, but I think you need to up your cal intake.

Good luck!

[woodan]

Originally Posted by CarLover78

I pretty much have my diet under control.

breakfast
oatmeal and a protein shake

lunch
normally a salad with grilled chicken or chicken and veggies

dinner
normally a salad with grilled chicken or chicken and veggies

protein shake later when I get hungry or after workout

That can be nowhere near enough for bulking. I'm about your weight and I'm bulking at the moment too. I have those 3 meals each day with added carbs. But I also have another 3.

Here is my current diet as a comparison. It's around 3500kcals and split 50/30/20 (c/p/f):

M1
65g Oats
2 Whole Eggs
2 slices of ham
200g pineapple
10g Nitrean

M2
100g Chicken Breast
50g Brown rice (dry weight)
150g Broccoli
15g Almonds
200g Pineapple

M3
100g Chicken Breast
50g Brown rice (dry weight)
150g Broccoli
10ml Olive Oil
1 Banana
30g Blueberries

M4
40g Nitrean
60g Oats
15g Peanut butter
200g Pineapple

M5
145g Tinned Tuna
50g Brown rice (dry weight)
150g Broccoli
10ml Olive Oil
1 Banana
30g Blueberries

M6
100g Chicken Breast
50g Brown rice (dry weight)
150g Broccoli
10ml Olive Oil
1 Banana
30g Blueberries

[goonie]

Are you calling this your "bulking" phase because of the fact you're lifting weights?

[CarLover78]

Yep, this is my bulking phase, never tried to ever lift weights consistently , that is why I am here to learn how to do it. I am trying to put a program together, but not sure how many reps, how heavy.

I have some fat to get rid of, so wait until after bulking to lose this fat? I thought if I lowered my calorie intake, the fat would come off also as well as building muscle at the same time.

[CarLover78]

Also , I assume by my body, that I need to bulk first, what do you guys think?

[woodan]

Originally Posted by CarLover78

Yep, this is my bulking phase, never tried to ever lift weights consistently , that is why I am here to learn how to do it. I am trying to put a program together, but not sure how many reps, how heavy.

I have some fat to get rid of, so wait until after bulking to lose this fat? I thought if I lowered my calorie intake, the fat would come off also as well as building muscle at the same time.

Originally Posted by CarLover78

Also , I assume by my body, that I need to bulk first, what do you guys think?

Ah ok, this is different. I'd forget about trying to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. Focus on one. A quote I read puts it best

If you try and chase 2 rabbits you'll likely catch neither.

So with that said, I'd do as Chad Waterbury recommends and that's to cut first. Lift heavy and eat below maintenance. Cut first as you'll see results quicker and it'll keep motivation up. Once you have got to a body fat percentage you are comfortable with start bulking, and by bulking I mean lifting heavy and eating a lot more than you posted earlier. If you do this right you should be able to control the fat gain and keep it to a minimum. As I've learnt though 9 months isn't a long time when it comes to body composition, especially building muscle.

At the end of the day though as goonie mentioned, it's all about diet. If I could go back a year and give myself one piece of advice that would be it. I only started eating properly in december and now don't really include the time before that when i think about how long I've been doing this.

[Master Moron]

Originally Posted by woodan

So with that said, I'd do as Chad Waterbury recommends and that's to cut first. Lift heavy and eat below maintenance. Cut first as you'll see results quicker and it'll keep motivation up. Once you have got to a body fat percentage you are comfortable with start bulking, and by bulking I mean lifting heavy and eating a lot more than you posted earlier. If you do this right you should be able to control the fat gain and keep it to a minimum. As I've learnt though 9 months isn't a long time when it comes to body composition, especially building muscle.

Isn't it harder to lose weight when you don't have as much muscle?

[woodan]

Originally Posted by Master Moron

Isn't it harder to lose weight when you don't have as much muscle?

I didn't have much trouble losing weight without much muscle but I think my body type helped with that. I imagine the only difference it really makes is how much you need to eat. Personally, I'd prefer to cut on upwards of 2500 and with more muscle I could, as it stands at the moment I can't.

Cutting first also means that once you have finished bulking you'll need to cut less to get rid of any unwanted fat you accumulated along the way.

[digitalnebula]

Don't get too discouraged about the "diet" thing.
Take the time you need to get it dialed in.
You can search the forums, but I have posted this link a gazillion times:
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

Use this page and the Harris Benedict Equation to determine your "break-even" caloric intake. Then subtract 10% to get your cutting calorie level.

This is what I did from late October 2007 thru February 2008.
I lost 31 pounds of bodyfat and added a little over 6 pounds of lean body mass. I was able to consistently lose one pound per week.
It took me a couple of months to really get my diet dialed in...

If you want to drop fat and maintain or add muscle, spend your initial research efforts looking into diet. A workout and rep scheme isn't nearly as important at this point...You can do a basic barbell training scheme while you work on your diet...Those are my $0.02...

[CarLover78]

So the consensus is to Cut First? Not bulk?

So I need to figure out the calories I need to cut as digitalnebula said.

As far as my routine, do you see anything wrong with it? 6-8 reps?

I plan on doing 2 or 3 weight exercises for each muscle group, then pushups, pullups, chinups, dips, for whichever bodypart I am working.

My cardio is a slow jog, for 1-2 miles, whichever I have time for, at least 3 times a week.

[digitalnebula]

Originally Posted by CarLover78

Day 1 - chest
day 2 - bi, tri
day 3 - delts, traps
day 4 - legs and back

Personally, I don't think I could handle legs and back on the same day....
There are a million ways to make a split. It's personal preference and doing what you like so you keep going back to the gym.

Personally, my split is based entirely around compound lifts. Here is what I am doing right now:

Monday
------------------------
Squat Derivative
BB Bench
Deadlift

Assistance:
Some kind of Row (BB, Cable, DB)
Core Exercise
Complex

Wednesday
-------------------
Squat Derivative
Power Clean

Assistance:
Dips
Chinups or Pullups
Complex

Friday
---------------
Squats
Standing BB Press
Krispy Kremes or GHRs

Assistance:
Shoulder Girdle Exercise (Lateral Raises or Rear Lateral Raises or Arnold Press or Superset)
Leg Press
Core Exercise
Complex

Squat Derivatives = Front squat, overhead squat, hack squat, box squat, and the like
Core Exercise = Cable Crunches, leg lifts, back extensions, etc...)
Complexes = bear, beast, etc...

As far as rep scheme, I have been doing 5x5s mixed in with ME sessions.
With this current routine, I will continue doing a volume strength rep scheme (5x5, 7x3, ...) and mix it in with lighter high rep sets...15, 20, 25....

[zenpharaohs]

Originally Posted by digitalnebula

Personally, I don't think I could handle legs and back on the same day....

If you deadlift, you're getting both. It doesn't have to be a full leg day plus a full back day's worth of work.

[digitalnebula]

Originally Posted by zenpharaohs

If you deadlift, you're getting both. It doesn't have to be a full leg day plus a full back day's worth of work.

Agreed....but I didn't see leg or back work anywhere else in the split...so I was assuming he was trying to do full leg and full back on the same day...


but I saw a day dedicated to arms...ugh...

[CarLover78]

So as far as reps, should I do 3 sets of 6-8, 5x5, pyramid? Or does it not really matter?

[digitalnebula]

Originally Posted by CarLover78

So as far as reps, should I do 3 sets of 6-8, 5x5, pyramid? Or does it not really matter?

Doesn't really matter...both are good rep schemes for what you want...
But three quartes of the war you want to fight will be won in the kitchen...