My kid got suspended- for getting beat up.

[FerretNose]

Boy am I ticked. My kid gets thrown into a locker, and then beat down to the floor, and then beat about the head while down on the floor. So the (much larger kid) who did this (and started it, I might add) gets suspended for 3 days, and so does my kid. Not even In school suspension- out of school. What the hell is up with that? My kid (who's 12 and in first year of Jr. High) has a black eye and the side of his face is all swollen.

The principal informed my son that "fighting is not tolerated at this school", so apparently, when he tried to hit back and defend himself, that was fighting. So I have to go up to the school tomorrow, and I just don't know how to approach it. I feel like biting the head off the entire office in there.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? I think it's crap that my kid has to miss school and possibly get behind on his work because of this. They complain like crazy about people missing school, but it's okay for them to deprive a kid of 3 days worth of classes? ARGH!

Thanks for letting me rant. Like yall had a choice.

[RTE]

Originally Posted by FerretNose

The principal informed my son that "fighting is not tolerated at this school", so apparently, when he tried to hit back and defend himself, that was fighting. So I have to go up to the school tomorrow, and I just don't know how to approach it. I feel like biting the head off the entire office in there.

Calm down, get your breath. Go in and tell the principal that you need his advice on how you should handle this situation, tell your child's side of the case. Ask him if he would have tried to defend himself under the same circumstances, why isn't it an unfair treatment of your child.

He will either tell you the other side of the story or agree and back off. The other side might differ from what you heard. It is hard to believe but even I would lie to my mother on occasion.

Whatever happens he holds the big stick. You and your child might end up being mistreated in this incident. Life is often unfair, a lesson in itself for your child. These things usually go away but if there is a next time, you might have the bigger stick in getting the principal to direct his actions towards the bully. But yelling and getting mad won't help.

Calm and confident usually wins more often.

[Specialbear]

First of all, I'm sorry.

THe important thing is to get THE ENTIRE STORY!! I'm sorry to say but there is a chance your son did something as well.

Not trying to push buttons at all! Im just saying when i was in middle and high school i got suspended twice and i was at fault (although i still deny it)

Good luck and if it isn't your kids fault, give the school hell b/c thats unfari

[iceweaselsarecool]

Talk to the principal about it, keep your cool. Get exhaustive documentation, including pics of your kid's injuries and reports from his doctor if applicable. Don't kick any ass yet, the time for that is later, after fact-finding and careful thought.

Then there are 2 basic options, with many variations.

1: Low key
Kids scrap all the time, and zero tolerance policies don't allow it, and don't care who started it. Missing 3 days out of Jr. High won't have any long-term affect on your child's academic progress. Put it down as a lesson learned, and discuss strategies for avoiding such incidents in the future with your child.

2: Hard core
File a criminal complaint against the attacker. Even if nothing comes of it, it will start a paper trail in case the behavior continues. Then if it does continue, consider taking civil action against the school for failing to provide a reasonable measure of safety.

From here I can't tell you which will be appropriate. In a perfect world, you and your kid could have coffee with the other family and resolve the whole thing. But I am aware that some folks are just doody heads.

[FerretNose]

Hi folks. First of all, thanks for all your imput, believe it or not, it actually did help. I took the middle road. I went in with a businesslike attitude. I did become brusque when I was told that my son would receive zeros for daily grades and not be allowed to make thiese up. However, they assured me that they would do everything possible to keep my son from getting behind- they were all of the opinion that my son should not be suspended, but their hands were tied by policy.

The assistant principal told me that the other boy received 5 days suspension, and that this boy had been in trouble several times already this year.

I am, however, going to write to the powers that be over our school district and complain. My compaint is thus: They should receive in school suspension, or at least be given credit on any work they make up instead of automatic zeros. It benefits nobody for a child to miss school for several days, and that's my beef now. The fighting issue is a grey area. The academic issue is cut and dried from my point of view.

Once again, thanks, and may I say you people are some of the most levelheaded i've had the priveledge to correspond with.

[wite-owl]

Originally Posted by FerretNose

I am, however, going to write to the powers that be over our school district and complain. My compaint is thus: They should receive in school suspension, or at least be given credit on any work they make up instead of automatic zeros.
:

As a teacher, I agree with you and will add some more support, in case you are able to really pursue this:

First, many students view suspension as a reward. Yes, a student engaging in a behavior that warrants suspension needs to be removed from the classroom. However, they should not stay home. Very few parents are able to stay home these days to supervise suspended children.

Additionally, every day at school has value, and forms the foundation for future lessons. By depriving children of the possibility to gain the information in some way, we are are setting the students up not only for academic failure, but for future social failure. (Many students exhibit poor behavior when they are having difficulty in the classroom).

I believe that every middle and high school should have an in-house suspension program with a stern, certified teacher, who recognizes that this is not a time to try to provide counseling. Students in this program should be given book-work and worksheets and, basically, be made miserable.

As far as the credit goes... I could care less about that, honestly. I don't see the point in denying the student the opportunity to make up that work. I mean, come on, they're there to meet state standards. What good does it do to deny the student the opportunity to work toward achieving this goal?

Good luck.

[Laura]

In another life - I, too worked for a school district. I am actually the person that monitors suspensions.................fun job.

The middle road is the best way to go. Our school has a zero tolerance for violence. The moment your child defended himself, he was violating the school policy. Sounds harsh, but when you are managing a thousand teenagers, it becomes necessary. Both children need to feel the heat of their actions, but we offer a bullying seminar and something called "good choices" to both kids involved.

I am not happy that the Principal discussed the other child's discipline record with you - this is NEVER a good sign. Your child and every child discipline file is a confidential record and needs to remain so.

We lean towards in school suspensions where their school work is provided and I get to work with them one on one and make sure that they do not fall behind.

Go to your school district's website and find the School Board Policies page, this will help you determine what the rules are - AND MAKE SURE THAT there is a letter from you and your child have a written account in his file that will remain there through his public school career. I would include a photo of his injuries and I would also include in my letter that you will pursue a criminal complaint if there is another altercation.

The principal must be made aware that you expect that your child will be protected while at school - ask him how your boy can follow the rules AND still protect himself. Put the onus back on them and make sure that you document every converstation, every meeting, every phone call regarding this event.


The sad part is that I find, that often the perp will have an IEP for special needs and will receive a less harsh sentence because of his perceived disability.

Good luck to you.

[HevyMetal]

you could argue the 'spirit of the law' and it's meaning.

The policy is flat-out "no fighting" and they're bound by policy so they say. O.k....so if a student is being choked to death that means flat out that another student is not allowed to intervene.

In fact any instance where someone might be hurt be it student ot teacher due to ANY kind of attack, the policy is no fighting.

This could be a factor in future situations where later, someone was asked why they didn't jump in and quell the situation to their available extent.....all that person would have to say is "you have a zero tolerance for fighting as demonstrated by meted punsihment for innocent victims in previous cases so I declined to get involved".


If they say "oh well...that's different" then they do NOT have a zero tolerance program..they have a selective judgement program which by definition is open to negotiation.

[wite-owl]

Originally Posted by Laura

The sad part is that I find, that often the perp will have an IEP for special needs and will receive a less harsh sentence because of his perceived disability.

This part kills me. You're correct, of course, but this is an overreaction on the part of the schools, and is NOT in line with federal law governing IEPs.

IF the behavior is a manifestation of the child's disability (a meeting decides that), then there is a maximum amount of time that the student can be kept out of school. If it is not appropriate to have the student at the school site beyond that maximum, then alternate placements must be considered (even tutoring at home, if necessary).

99.99 percent of the time, it is not a manifestation. ("How, exactly, did little [fictional] Timmy's learning disability cause him to bring and light firecrackers in the cafeteria?")

Unfortunately, despite this difference, administrators tend to err on the side of what they think is caution... and what some of us think borders on negligence.

[Omaha]

Unfortunately, despite this difference, administrators tend to err on the side of what they think is caution... and what some of us think borders on negligence

Last thing a school district wants is to be sued for discrimination or some other crock of crap.

[wite-owl]

Originally Posted by Omaha

Last thing a school district wants is to be sued for discrimination or some other crock of crap.

Undoubtedly, but that's why there are steps in place. If the student has been suspended x number of days, we have a meeting to discuss whether or not the behavior is a result of the disability. If it isn't (see fictional example above), then the school isn't discriminating. (The parents are at the meeting and sign that they agree with the team decision.)

As it is, we're simply teaching certain kids that they can get away with almost anything.

(Yes, I am a Special Education teacher...)

[zenpharaohs]

Originally Posted by Laura

The middle road is the best way to go. Our school has a zero tolerance for violence. The moment your child defended himself, he was violating the school policy. Sounds harsh

Once I was that kid. The one that got beat on all the time, because I was small and recently come from a more civilized school system - I had no idea about fighting. I gotta tell you, when the adults didn't get the bastards off me that often, I took to doing it myself. That didn't work often, but it worked twice, and maybe that was enough. In sixth grade I was able to trap one assailant's hand between my teeth and then use my head to scrape his hand against the concrete he was pounding me into, and I ground some of his knuckles down to bone. It made him scream and cry and get off. I was respected for a few years because he was a big bully and that made me "OK" even though I was about a year younger than everyone else and otherwise quite a geek (yeah this was in 1969 and I was already a computer programmer). There were some other problems on the way to High School but that stopped the day I stunned one attacker with an elbow swipe across the trachea and managed to trap his head in a locker door which I slammed on him until submission. That was the last time I actually had to physically defend myself in any serious way. It's been 31 years, so it's entirely possible I will not have to fight again for the rest of my life.

The funny thing about those two times is that by ending the struggle myself, my attackers escaped discipline. Over the years I got pounded a lot more times than any assailants got suspended, let alone detention. My parents used to complain to the school when I came home beat up. That didn't stop anything. What seemed to work was putting a serious hurt on the bad guy.

In some theoretical sense, I like the idea of a zero tolerance policy for violence, because some of the kids that picked on me were kids that learned that crap from being picked on more than they were bad kids. It was a cycle of violence. I just wonder whether the zero tolerance policy which suspends kids is going to break those cycles or just add to the misery of the victims.

[Omaha]

Originally Posted by wite-owl

Undoubtedly, but that's why there are steps in place. If the student has been suspended x number of days, we have a meeting to discuss whether or not the behavior is a result of the disability. If it isn't (see fictional example above), then the school isn't discriminating. (The parents are at the meeting and sign that they agree with the team decision.)

As it is, we're simply teaching certain kids that they can get away with almost anything.

(Yes, I am a Special Education teacher...)

No, absolutely. I am not saying the school (schools in general, such as the one you are referring to) is doing anything wrong. It's just that any lawyer worth his/her salt these days can get at least some money out of anyone. Sad but true.



And about the 'zero tolerance' mumbo jumbo as a recent graduate I can tell you first hand that means zip.

I stumbled upon a freshmen getting wailed on in the bathroom during my junior year. I intervened and the guy thought he'd fight me instead. I hurt him a little more that I should have, and I regret that to this day, but that bastard wasn't gonna hurt anyone else anymore.

They tried to suspend me for protecting the poor kid (were talking about a guy that wasn't 90 pounds soakin’ wet) and I told the principal flat out to "shove it up his ass". Well he decided against it and I heard nothing else more on the issue.

People that live by violence will only learn by it. If anything daily life and what's constantly on a continuos loop in the media shows us that.

I'm a firm believer of not taking shit from anyone unless they can teach you. I don't care what any administrator says, self defense and the defense of others is just that and it's a moral code we should all follow where ever the need arises.

A lot of crap would be taken care of post haste if that was the case.

[Ziegenbak]

Unfortunatly schools are all about avoiding lawsuits and not about educating these days. I'm not going to say anything more about this, or I'll be writing for days.

[Wilderbeast]

I had a issue like this a long time ago when i was in school. To cut a long story short it was looking quite bad up to the point where a teacher intervened. The teacher actual recapped a situation where another teacher had defended herself against a child by holding them down. The school had supported her right to defend herself when the parents of the child complained. When he requested that I have the same right to defend myself it surprisingly went away. Strange how kids can be denied such a obvious human right.

[jeremya]

When I was in elementary school I used to get bullied by one kid in particular. I'd try to defend myself and eventually we'd both end up in the principles office. They had a "it takes two to fight" policy which still seems insane to me.

Luckily in Jr. High they didn't take this point of view and the bully ended up in the office not me. He started to leave me alone after that.

My Mom and Step Father are both retired teachers and I have seen my fair share of school policy stupidity. These stupid blanket suspention policies are ridiculous. It often completely removes the ability to apply reason to a situation. Like when the girls mother put a knife in her lunch for her apple and the girl was expelled. Come on....

Of course I grew up in small town with out a lot of the problems most schools face.

Anyway I feel your pain...

-- Jeremy

[FerretNose]

Again, thanks so much everyone, for your awesome input. I feel quite bolstered and more informed on the issue.