Too Much Dairy?

[baldridges]

I am about 205 lbs, and often have trouble eating 2050 calories a day. The best way I found to do this is to eat dairy. I have 1-2 cups skim milk every morning for breakfast (1 in my oatmeal and 1 in my protein shakes on weight days), a small container of non-fat yogurt at 10:00 am, 2 slices of fat free cheese at lunch, as well as a cup of non-fat cottege cheese, and 1/2 pint of 1% milk. This is all on top of everything else I eat (i.e. egg beaters, almonds, chicken, etc.) I never eat dairy after lunch, other than sometimes some cottege cheese at dinner. My calories are still on track, as well as my 20/40/40 plan. Is this too much dairy? What are the drawbacks to it?

Thanks

[JeremyLikness]

I have found that the people who drink their calories have the hardest time losing weight. I recommend anyone trying to drop fat to not drink calories - that means eliminating milk and juices etc. Eat the whole fruit instead. Have eggs. Get your dairy from cottage cheese. You get plenty of calcium from a good multi and leafy green veggies, which you should have plenty of as well.

Dairy can be a double whammy. Many people are mildly allergic to it, and don't realize it. People will argue with me up and down about this but the bottom line is that instead of talking, DO. Take action. Cut out ALL dairy for JUST 4 WEEKS. That's it - not asking you to make a lifestyle change here, just experiment with 4 weeks dairy free.

9 out of 10 will never go back - they breathe easily for the first time, feel more energy, have better recovery, lean down in the face (a lot of people lean down and have puffy faces, but find that eliminating dairy makes their face lean out as well), etc.

Even a mild allergy stresses your immune system and wreaks havoc. It is good to try this experiment to see. Now, some people will be perfectly fine and notice no difference and for them, going back to dairy is absolutely fine. For many, however, it is a life-changing event.

And it makes sense. Humans are the only mammals that insist on drinking milk after being weaned, and then we don't even drink the right milk: instead of human milk, we drink cow milk (yet we don't have several stomachs, do we???) The only time animals do this is when it is given to them in a domestic setting.

As for thinking dairy is your main ticket to calcium, that was a pretty effective advertising campaign, eh? Basically, the dairy industry of course wants you to buy dairy - that's why they convince women their bones will break if they don't drink milk and why bodybuilders think they have to have whey or they'll never get big. The government is 100% supportive of this because they get to buy back the surplus from the dairy farmers at the end of the year - so both are highly motivated to sell you dairy for the industry, not necessarily for your health. It is well known that milk creates an environment in your stomach that requires calcium to buffer the acidity, meaning that drinking dairy INCREASES YOUR DEMANDS FOR CALCIUM. So you are basically having something calcium fortified that makes you require more calcium. Go figure!

It is interesting that vegans, who get far less calcium in their diet than non-vegans, have approximately the same levels circulating in their bloodstream and available for their bones. So either they absorb calcium better from plants, or milk makes it harder to get calcium, or probably a combination of both. Don't take my word for it:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=12491091

Take care!

Jeremy

[baldridges]

Never even considered any of this. It would take some work to cut out all dairy for a month, since cottege cheese is a staple in my diet. I could definately lose the milk at lunch (I only drink it about once a week anyway), as well as the yogurt (today is the first day I have tried it). Getting rid of everything else would definately take work. I would have to do some definate research to find other things to substitute in my diet to replace those calories. But it is interesting to consider. Thanks for the info.

[Jimbo]

People's reaction to dairy must be very individualized. In my days of eating badly, I convinced myself that I either had an allergy to diary or was lactose intolerant. A glass of milk or some other dairy product would put me over the top in terms of bloating, heartburn, etc.
When I started to eat clean, I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to take dairy with no ill effects - I now take my whey with milk, and I eat cottage cheese daily.
Jeremy has done much more research than me (I've done zero), but I just wanted to share my experience.

[Liam19]

I only take a little yogurt now and then. I never really liked milk much, but would sometimes take it in cereal and stuff. I went off dairy for a while ago just for a month or two. I was told it would help a digestion problem I'd been having. When I tried it again it tasted so foul! Milk really does taste very very bad!

Also when we move into our teens we lose the ability to produce lactase. This is why so many people are lactose intolerant. You might find you get a lot less stomach pains and cramps when you cut out milk.

Also, in my experience I've been told I taste a lot better without dairy in my diet. I'll leave that to your imagination...

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Liam19

Also, in my experience I've been told I taste a lot better without dairy in my diet. I'll leave that to your imagination...

I checked your gender, and I think I'll refrain on the imagination part.

[baldridges]

probably didn't need to know that last part, but thanks for the info.

[Liam19]

No way, everyone needs to know that part!
It's like some of the best advice a guy can get!!!!
You'll get a lot of thanks for it if you put it into practice

[TheRyanator]

Jeremy,

I was just wondering how you feel about dairy, based on the post you made in this thread vs. the one you made in the other recent thread in which you said you had many of your clients eating full fat cottage and they were shedding weight despite the full fat of the cottage and whole eggs etc. In this thread you mentioned that it is in most peoples best interest to cut out dairy for a period of time, and that the results often are incredible. I am not trying to stump you by any means, I just value your input and want to make sure I am understanding correctly. You mentioned that people who cut dairy out have more energy, trim up in the face etc...that would be something I would consider for sure as I have varying energy levels all day long and my face is one of the last things to thin out in my cutting phase. I drink 1 cup of skim milk a day roughly in a shake or occasionally cereal. I also eat low-fat cottage cheese about three times a week (about 1/2 to 1 cup in serving size). When you say you recommend cutting out dairy I assume you were not just talking about milk, but also milk by products such as the cottage cheese or skim mozzarella. Overall, would you recommend that the dairy be cut out completely for a trial period, versus using it as a high fat food to aid in the cutting phase due to the benefits it provides with slowing digestion etc...?

Thank you.

[JeremyLikness]

Great question! I think milk protein is a great protein. I think lactose is the Devil. However, I have had (keep in mind I am not actively training now, so when I say "clients" it is more from the past several years when I did train) ... at any rate, I have had a few that did not notice a difference when cutting dairy, but really the vast majority REFUSE to eliminate it. That is the plain, cold truth. So if someone is going to keep dairy in, I want to make sure it is the best dairy. The majority of my clients have been women, and the majority of those were not getting enough fat - women are extremely sensitive to fat in the diet and need moderate amounts. For them, not getting enough fat means severe PMS symptoms, irregular menstrual cycles, intense cravings, etc. Most of my clients were able to INCREASE calories while dropping more fat by incorporating more fats into their nutrition because they had a boost in their metabolism as the result. So they ate more, had fewer cravings, less severe PMS symptoms, more fat loss, etc. For males, it is more of a testosterone production issue than all of the other items - haven't found a male with PMS yet, but a few get overly stressed when their significant others are suffering from it.

So, again, my take on dairy - I'm not as opposed to yogurts and cheeses because the bacteria take care of most of the lactose. I think the majority of people probably would benefit from leaving milk alone. I have heard people get GREAT results drinking raw, unpasteurized milk. There are a lot of theories that homogenization and pasteurization create issues with milk. I really don't know - here is some info:

http://www.realmilk.com/why.html

So -- I think the milk proteins are fine, I've had shakes with those, although all of my shakes now have soy protein (I don't try to get my protein from shakes, but from whole foods, the shakes are just for energy to me). If someone tolerates it, great, but I always encourage people to try the 4 week test to see. The majority who tried it did not go back, but I can say only a minority tried it - the majority just flat out refused to try something new and eliminate it for a month. I have the same issue with male clients - most of them refuse to give up beer for several weeks. Again, I don't ask they give it up for life - heck, I enjoy the occassional beer and glass of wine - but I get people who are at 12% and can't seem to lose the last few pounds and take a "free day" which involves downing a six pack and they just want it to magically disappear. *shrug*

Hope that helped clarify things!

Jeremy

[TheRyanator]

Jeremy,

Thanks, you answered my question exactly regarding whether cutting dairy just meant milk or also milk and other dairy by products. I am highly considering cutting the milk out for a period of weeks. I dont notice any real negative side effects specifically with dairy now, but would be interested to see what changes may occur anyway. For example energy and also losing the small amount of "chub" in the face as I am on the last half of my cutting phase. Is there the same amount of lactose roughly in each type of milk or does it vary between whole, 1% and skim? I drink skim exclusively, do you think that is any better or would you still say totally cut it out? I suppose if the lactose is still there it does not matter how much fat is present. Thanks for helping me think through this!

[JeremyLikness]

Originally Posted by TheRyanator

Jeremy,

Thanks, you answered my question exactly regarding whether cutting dairy just meant milk or also milk and other dairy by products. I am highly considering cutting the milk out for a period of weeks. I dont notice any real negative side effects specifically with dairy now, but would be interested to see what changes may occur anyway. For example energy and also losing the small amount of "chub" in the face as I am on the last half of my cutting phase. Is there the same amount of lactose roughly in each type of milk or does it vary between whole, 1% and skim? I drink skim exclusively, do you think that is any better or would you still say totally cut it out? I suppose if the lactose is still there it does not matter how much fat is present. Thanks for helping me think through this!

You know - to be perfectly honest, I am not well educated in the difference between lactose in skim and whole milk! I say, "If it isn't broke, don't fix it." So certainly try cutting it all out if you have something to gain - it never hurts to try for 2 - 4 weeks. Then, you can regroup, and decide - did it make a difference? Or are things the same, and therefore you are fine to add it back?

Will be very interested to hear your results.

Those who DO cut out dairy seem two report two common things:

1. Intense cravings the first several days - it is sometimes VERY tough to overcome it
2. Quite a bit of (ahem, pardon this - kinda gross) nasal discharge. My wife and I both experienced this - and extremely stuffy/runny nose. It lasted a week for me and two weeks for my wife, but after that, our sinuses were clearer than they had ever been before!

Jeremy

[Fudgam]

Holy crap Jeremy, where were you in some of my previous posts?
We have very similar views in this area. We are indeed the only mammal that continues to consume milk after infancy (and its not even human milk).
Ive asked many people the following before when this topic comes up during lunch(Im mostly talking to people who drink milk ): What if I told you that the milk that you have been drinking was human milk? Would you be disgusted or not care? If you are disgusted by this information that you have just learned, why do you have no problem drinking milk from a cow?
Remember on the Tom Green Show when he sucked on a cows utter? Do you drink cows milk and do you think what Tom Green did is disgusting(If yes, explain why)?

www.notmilk.com I love that site.

Great question! I think milk protein is a great protein.

Whoa!!!! Not in infants though. Im pretty sure giving any protein to an infant(anything outside of moms milk that is) will produce an immunoreaction, and they will have permanent milk allergies(atleast to cows milk).
When you were talking about how the government profits from the milk industry, I remebered something. Everyone here who has any type of artificial sweetener in their home, go get the box. Look on the box and see who they are a "proud sponsors" of and what type of people that product is approved for. Interpret it however you may, I just saw it yesterday in the grocery store.

[imsuxok?]

Originally Posted by Fudgam

Remember on the Tom Green Show when he sucked on a cows utter? Do you drink cows milk and do you think what Tom Green did is disgusting(If yes, explain why)?

Because the milk Tom was drinking was unpasteurized... and beacause he put his mouth on a cow's udder.

P.S. You'll pry my cheddar, roquefort and reggiano from my cold dead hands

[Jingo]

i was drinking about 2 and a half pints of skimmed milk a day, when i cut that right down to about half a pint and replaced it with other sources i saw much improved weight loss

[Fudgam]

Originally Posted by imsuxok?

Because the milk Tom was drinking was unpasteurized... and beacause he put his mouth on a cow's udder.

P.S. You'll pry my cheddar, roquefort and reggiano from my cold dead hands

Well, if it was fresh from the cows utter then you wouldnt need to worry about bad milk coming out. It wouldnt be like leaving unpasteurized milk out on the counter all night.
Ok, new question.(Im asking you because your the only one who repled to me). Would you have a problem drinking human milk? Pasteurized human milk? Either way, why?