Critique My Workout Routine

[chang]

Monday Chest/Biceps

Incline DB Bench Press 2x10
Flat DB Bench Press 2x10
Dips 2xFailure
Flies 3x10 (Incline, Flat, Decline)
Straight Bar Curls 2x10
Curl Bar Curls 2x10
Hammer Curls 2x10

Wednesday Legs/Shoulders

Squats 2x10
Leg Press 2x10
Leg Extensions 2x10
Leg Curls 2x10
DB Shoulder Press 2x10
Side Delt Raises 2x10
Rear Delt Raises 2x10
Shrugs 2x10

Friday Back/Triceps

Pulldowns 2x10
Bentover Rows 2x10
Deadlifts 2x10
Machine Rows 2x10
Dips 2xFailure
Tricep Pressdowns 2x10
Overhead DB Press 2x10

I have recently started working out again after inactivity for 4 months. Last year I worked out everyday from February-September and I went from 145lbs-172lbs. Currently I sit around 155lbs, I lost most of what I gained, figures. I did nothing for the past 4 months, my sleeping habits went, my eating habits went. Now I am going to get back on track and hit the weights hard.

This routine I feel is a fairly light routine and I try to hit every muscle group with a three day routine. The only thing I haven't listed in there is any ab workouts, although I plan on doing those seperately from my weight routine.

Also, what are everybody's opinions on using DB's for bench press rather than using a BB? My problem is that I will be alone and won't have a spotter most of the time, so I feel using DB's will help me avoid dropping a barbell on myself . So are they good for overall mass development, or should I really be using BB's?

I should also add that I am trying to bulk up with this routine.

[Mimic]

One of my favorite workouts is the Incline Dumbell Press. I think dumbells are great for bench. Keep in mind, with dumbells it becomes more of an isolation workout than as much as the barbell being compound, so don't expect to press 150lbs per arm like you can with a BB, unless your massive of course

As for your lifts, I think everything is a bit low in terms of sets. Unless of course you're not including warm and weight accumulation. Other than that, I think it looks pretty solid.

Since you say you are trying to bulk, I'd say make sure you get about three or four heavy sets in there, maybe somthing like 3x4 on some of those. You want the weight heavy enough that you can't lift more than six times but make it up to at least four or so.

Just my opinion, take it as you wish.

-Mimic

[SpiderKing]

I always found 3 sets to work for me. First one is kinda like a warm-up (after my REAL warm-ups of course), second one I push myself, and third one go all out. 2 just seems kinda low...and if you're bulking I dont think you really need 10 reps, aim for a lower number. I mean, 8 at most, but probably less.

[handle]

I think the chest/triceps should be paired and back/bicep should be paired, that's just my opinion. Thing is, your working your tricep, biceps, and chest more than you think.

Monday Chest/Biceps

Incline DB Bench Press 2x10 - triceps + chest
Flat DB Bench Press 2x10 - triceps + chest
Dips 2xFailure - this is triceps and chest, why triceps on chest/bicep day?
Flies 3x10 (Incline, Flat, Decline) - triceps + chest
Straight Bar Curls 2x10 - bis
Curl Bar Curls 2x10 - bis
Hammer Curls 2x10 - bis


Friday Back/Triceps

Pulldowns 2x10 - works back and biceps the most, triceps last
Bentover Rows 2x10 -dont know aobut this one, probably back and bicep the most, thats usually the case
Deadlifts 2x10 - this is perfect, works everything but mainly back
Machine Rows 2x10 - works back the most, bicep/tricep the same as dynamic stabilyzers
Dips 2xFailure - works chest and triceps the most, bicep stabilyzers
Tricep Pressdowns 2x10 - obviously tricep only
Overhead DB Press 2x10 - dont know about this one, tricep only though right? not sure if I'm thinking of the right excercise

So, instead, try this:
Monday Chest/Tricep
Incline DB Bench Press 2x10 - triceps + chest
Flat DB Bench Press 2x10 - triceps + chest
Dips 2xFailure - this is triceps and chest
Flies 3x10 (Incline, Flat, Decline) - triceps + chest
Dips 2xFailure - works chest and triceps the most, bicep stabilyzers
Tricep Pressdowns 2x10 - obviously tricep only
Overhead DB Press 2x10 - dont know about this one, tricep only though right? not sure if I'm thinking of the right excercise


Friday Back/Bicep

Pulldowns 2x10 - works back and biceps the most, triceps last
Bentover Rows 2x10 -dont know aobut this one, probably back and bicep the most, thats usually the case
Deadlifts 2x10 - this is perfect, works everything but mainly back
Machine Rows 2x10 - works back the most, bicep/tricep the same as dynamic stabilyzers
Straight Bar Curls 2x10 - bis
Curl Bar Curls 2x10 - bis
Hammer Curls 2x10 - bis

[chang]

I understand which exercises work which muscles.

The idea behind my routine and why I have it set up the way I do, is so that essentially I am working bi's and tri's twice a week, rather than the common once/week. My arms have always been my weak point so that is why I did it this way.

Also, I find that when I work triceps on chest day, I cannot perform the tricep exercises to my full ability due to the fact that they were pre-fatigued from the chest movements. That is why I have decided to add a bit of contrast and work the opposing muscle and not the one aiding in the lift.

I am going to try for for a couple weeks and see how it goes, but I have tried it in the past with nice results.

I should also add that this 3-day split is not uncommon, I know of several people that work chest/bis, back/tris than the typical chest/tris back/bis. Thanks for your input.

[handle]

ahh, i see, just letting you know just in case you didn't know that you were working them 2 times a week. My friend's routine was like yours but he didn't realize that he was working bis/tris twice a week (he thought he only was working it one day a week) , so, I just though I would let you know in case.

[l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l]

Originally Posted by SpiderKing

I always found 3 sets to work for me. First one is kinda like a warm-up (after my REAL warm-ups of course), second one I push myself, and third one go all out. 2 just seems kinda low...and if you're bulking I dont think you really need 10 reps, aim for a lower number. I mean, 8 at most, but probably less.

Just thought I'd mention something.

I noticed that SpiderKing said he does 3 sets, but really only does one of them with "full intensity". If you want to achieve maximal gains remember that every set should be at "full intensity". A common way to do this is by having your first set consist of a higher amount of weight than the second set, and the same for any following sets (3-4 sets is the typical amount of sets used when using this method).


So in other words it'd look something like this:
1st Set: 150 lb's
2nd Set: 130 lb's
3rd Set: 110 lb's


This way by the end of your sets you've completely exhausted your muscle(s); again, assuming you've done these with full intensity. It's the quality of the exercise(s) being performed, not the quantity.

Sorry SpiderKing if you take offense to me quoting your post, not trying to offend you in any way, I just saw that you posted that and wanted to clarify/clear it up a little. Also remember, all this is assuming your goal is to bulk up, which you already stated as your goal (why I made this post). Hope this helps and if you have any further questions you know us on this board are here to help you out!

[1FastGTX]

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

Just thought I'd mention something.

I noticed that SpiderKing said he does 3 sets, but really only does one of them with "full intensity". If you want to achieve maximal gains remember that every set should be at "full intensity". A common way to do this is by having your first set consist of a higher amount of weight than the second set, and the same for any following sets (3-4 sets is the typical amount of sets used when using this method).


So in other words it'd look something like this:
1st Set: 150 lb's
2nd Set: 130 lb's
3rd Set: 110 lb's


This way by the end of your sets you've completely exhausted your muscle(s); again, assuming you've done these with full intensity. It's the quality of the exercise(s) being performed, not the quantity.

Sorry SpiderKing if you take offense to me quoting your post, not trying to offend you in any way, I just saw that you posted that and wanted to clarify/clear it up a little. Also remember, all this is assuming your goal is to bulk up, which you already stated as your goal (why I made this post). Hope this helps and if you have any further questions you know us on this board are here to help you out!

And no offense to you for quoting your post, but you are the one who is wrong. Plenty of people are achieving more with less than full intensity on their sets. There are too many variables so please don't make blanket statements.

I think SpiderKing's routine of 1-2 warmup sets and 1 working set to failure sounded much more productive than your drop-set idea.

In fact it's similar to what Dorian Yates used to do.

[l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l]

Originally Posted by 1FastGTX

And no offense to you for quoting your post, but you are the one who is wrong. Plenty of people are achieving more with less than full intensity on their sets. There are too many variables so please don't make blanket statements.

I think SpiderKing's routine of 1-2 warmup sets and 1 working set to failure sounded much more productive than your drop-set idea.

In fact it's similar to what Dorian Yates used to do.

None taken.

What I mentioned in that post I guess could depend on the individual. Most professional sports teams, namely NFL teams, use that kind of training. This is because of the limited amount of time the players have so when they work out they want to make it as efficient as possible. Of course there are plenty of ways to do your workout, that's just one way of doing it.

However, I still don't like the "first 2 sets I'm not really trying" idea, but that could be just me; I'd prefer to be giving it all every rep of every set - I don't like half-assing anything. I personally think this is better since you're then hitting your muscles as hard as possible and truly exhausting your body (really giving it something to recover from), but again, it's probably just a personal preference.

[wh0rume]

edit: woops, didnt read the rest of the thread.
i'm still keeping this post here so that paradise's name doesnt show up in the main screen.

[1FastGTX]

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

None taken.

Good.

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

What I mentioned in that post I guess could depend on the individual.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

Most professional sports teams, namely NFL teams, use that kind of training. This is because of the limited amount of time the players have so when they work out they want to make it as efficient as possible. Of course there are plenty of ways to do your workout, that's just one way of doing it.

Well, a lot of NFL players train for other purposes than aesthetics as well, namely speed and strength (I know there can be correlations of course, but you know what I mean). But I get what you're saying - effective training in minimal time. I'm fine with that (prior to this month I was doing 30 minute session, failure training, etc.).

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

However, I still don't like the "first 2 sets I'm not really trying" idea, but that could be just me; I'd prefer to be giving it all every rep of every set - I don't like half-assing anything.

I don't like that statement either, generally speaking. If you search through my posts over the years you'll notice I'm a big intensity type trainee, but over the last month I've been doing more volume and less failure, and seeing good results. I don't consider my efforts half-assed because the stopping before failure is offering better results (I'm not denying the "change for the sake of change" is providing said benefit, but that's another discussion for another day).

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

I personally think this is better since you're then hitting your muscles as hard as possible and truly exhausting your body (really giving it something to recover from), but again, it's probably just a personal preference.

I'd have agreed with you a year ago but experimentation with other principles and success with said principles proved otherwise, for me anyway.

On another note, I feel there are better ways of increasing intensity than drop-sets. A strict 3 sets of failure with the same weight, or even a pyramid UP in weight would be better (in my humble opinion of course).

[chicanerous]

Originally Posted by 1FastGTX

I'd have agreed with you a year ago but experimentation with other principles and success with said principles proved otherwise, for me anyway.

On another note, I feel there are better ways of increasing intensity than drop-sets. A strict 3 sets of failure with the same weight, or even a pyramid UP in weight would be better (in my humble opinion of course).

I concur with these statements.

[TarSeal]

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

Just thought I'd mention something.

I noticed that SpiderKing said he does 3 sets, but really only does one of them with "full intensity". If you want to achieve maximal gains remember that every set should be at "full intensity". A common way to do this is by having your first set consist of a higher amount of weight than the second set, and the same for any following sets (3-4 sets is the typical amount of sets used when using this method).


So in other words it'd look something like this:
1st Set: 150 lb's
2nd Set: 130 lb's
3rd Set: 110 lb's


This way by the end of your sets you've completely exhausted your muscle(s); again, assuming you've done these with full intensity. It's the quality of the exercise(s) being performed, not the quantity.

It looks to me like those 3 sets are the reverse of "full intensity." The
3rd set looks like it would be really easy with such a lower weight. I guess you are supposed to do 25 reps or something?

Usually by my 3rd or 4th set I need more weight to keep my intensity up.

[l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l]

Originally Posted by Travis

It looks to me like those 3 sets are the reverse of "full intensity." The
3rd set looks like it would be really easy with such a lower weight. I guess you are supposed to do 25 reps or something?

Usually by my 3rd or 4th set I need more weight to keep my intensity up.

Also just to clear up a little more what I meant by my example - the point behind it is to gradually go down, with each set being a lower % of your max weight. The first set is near your max, while the following sets are ~10% lower (of your max) each.

So it'd be something like this:
1st Set - 90%
2nd Set - 80%
3rd Set - 70%

The idea behind it is that you hit your muscles hard upfront, and with the following sets your simply continuing to exhaust them (like endurance training for your muscles). Like 1FastGTX said though, you can also opt to do the same weight for all of the sets. As far as the goal goes, there's no major difference between the two since the goal is still the same (completely exhaust your muscle[s]). Some might say that gradually going down in %MAX is safer too, but I guess you could say it just all depends on what the individual wants to do.

Let me take some more time to further explain the idea behind the example I gave before -
The point is so that by the end you've completely exhausted your muscle(s). If you can perform the same weight for 3 sets then logic says that your first two sets were "sub-maximal effort". I repeat, I don't like half-assing anything. If you're truly giving maximum effort (which I personally much prefer) then there'd be no way that you can lift the same amount of weight on your 3rd set as on your 1st set. Your first set, given you're really trying to hit your muscles as hard as possible, should have your body saying "what the ... just happened?" - which is good, you just shocked your body. After that, you won't be able to lift the same amount of weight as your first set again. If you can, you didn't have enough weight on your first set. Otherwise it'd be like seeing one of those people on those "World's Strongest Man" competitions never get tired after all those reps of deadlifting a wagon full of x-hundred lb. stones/etc... After so many many reps your body simply cannot continue to lift near your %MAX. How can you work around this? Simply don't lift as near your %MAX. Give your body something that still exhausts it just as much as if you were still lifting near your max. It's like with each set you suddenly have a new max, and with every set your continuing to lift at your max (or "temporary new max"). If you've done it correctly, by the end of your workout you should've completely exhausted your muscle(s), giving your body something to really recover from (you just gave it a reason to want to).


I'll say again though that you can either do the example I gave or what 1FastGTX said (same weight for all sets) since the goal would be the same (completely exhaust your muscles). I just happen to personally prefer the example I gave, just as 1FastGTX prefers his way. It's just preference. I prefer my way because I don't like half-assing anything and I think that by doing the way I provided in my example you're truly giving 100% effort EVERY set as opposed to just one. All out in everything; every play, set, etc... Hopefully I cleared up the reasoning behind what I posted in my example.

[karatetricker]

[HevyMetal]

I find (re: original second part of question) that chest development increases when you pair DB presses and flyes with Bench.

I usually use the barbell for flat bench, dumbells for incline presses and incline flyes and also dumbells for flatbench flyes.

Many times I'll superset or giant set these.

I don't think I'd use dumbells only.

I'd do incline presses on the barbell bench rig but it's too much of a pain in the butt having to adjust the bar height and bench angle so I have 2 benches. One for dumbells and one for barbells.

You get more weight up with a barbell. Don't forget when using dumbells of any serious weight you still have to transport them to your bench and get into position. (Unless you're using Powerhooks).

But you can getaround this a bit by pre-fatiguing with barbell bench and then doing dumbell work second.

[cajunman]

A few thoughts:

First, you are squatting Wednesday and then deadlifting and doing bent over rows on Friday. This will be taxing on your lower back. I'd recommend moving Squats to Monday and leave Deadlifts on Friday. I realize your rationale may be to put maximum separation between your arm work, but IM(H)O, the important lifts in your bulk plan are the Big Three - Sq, B, & DL. Jack the weights on those, and you'll get bigger than gaining 10 lbs on your curls and pressdowns. Just my 0.02.

Curls: what exactly is the difference between straight bar curls and curl bar curls? Slightly different angle of rotation of the wrist? Otherwise, same exact movement. I recommend substituting in a supinated DB curl - curl the DB and supinate the wrist while you do so. For kicks, do supinated DB curls on an incline bench. Or bent over non-supported supinated DB curls.

Back: Why start with pulldowns?? Deadlifts first. I'd recommend instead of 2x10 to go 4x5, 5x4, or even 10x2, touch and go style. Most people who do high-rep deadlifts do a good first rep, and lousy second-through-umpty reps. If you do stick with 2x10, do a total reset between reps - each rep perfect. Then either go straight into BO Rows, or sandwich another exercise in there that's less stressful on the low back - pulldowns or machine rows.

Triceps: Oh, I'm having flashbacks to Steve Holman's POF training...how 'bout going dips, then OH DB Tri Press, then pressdowns?
You'll hit the mid-range, stretch, and peak contracted in that order....
Pressdowns, despite their ubiquity, are more of a finishing movement than a mass builder - again IMO.

That's my 2 cents...focus on the big lifts, where you move the big weight, don't get bogged down with the delt raises, curls, and pressdowns...if you can get your squat and dead up to 2xbodyweight or better, the other lifts will take care of themselves. Good luck!

[cajunman]

Originally Posted by l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l

blah blah blah I don't like half-assing anything. If you're truly giving maximum effort (which I personally much prefer) then there'd be no way that you can lift the same amount of weight on your 3rd set as on your 1st set. blah blah blah If you've done it correctly, by the end of your workout you should've completely exhausted your muscle(s),

blah blah blah I prefer my way because I don't like half-assing anything and I think that by doing the way I provided in my example you're truly giving 100% effort EVERY set as opposed to just one. All out in everything; every play, set, etc...

Uh-oh, sounds like someone's been reading too much Flex magazine - another one of the "high-intensity" "complete exhaustion" gurus...I would suggest you research the following: powerlifting workouts and periodization routines, oly workouts and periodization routines, German Volume Training, Gironda (8x8), Starr (5x5), Westside, speed work, etc....I happen to agree with the great Bill Pearl, who always advises to "leave a little in the tank" and not go to failure on the last rep. I "half-assed" my way through a 12-week powerlifting program, never coming within a rep of failure, and gained around 50 lbs on all my lifts...my advice on a bulking routine is not to overly tax your recovery ability - as Lee Haney used to say "Stimulate, don't annihilate" - lift heavy, push the weights up, but leave some gas in the tank and eat like a horse. Again, my 0.02.

[NEdge]

Originally Posted by cajunman

"Stimulate, don't annihilate"

It works for sport-specific training too - after a certain point all you do is increase the recovery time, without stimulating any extra growth or CNS adaptation.

(Of course one must always remember 'never say never' and 'everything works for 6 weeks')

[l|_.-~*Paradise2K*~-._|l]

Originally Posted by cajunman

Uh-oh, sounds like someone's been reading too much Flex magazine - another one of the "high-intensity" "complete exhaustion" gurus...I would suggest you research the following: powerlifting workouts and periodization routines, oly workouts and periodization routines, German Volume Training, Gironda (8x8), Starr (5x5), Westside, speed work, etc....I happen to agree with the great Bill Pearl, who always advises to "leave a little in the tank" and not go to failure on the last rep. I "half-assed" my way through a 12-week powerlifting program, never coming within a rep of failure, and gained around 50 lbs on all my lifts...my advice on a bulking routine is not to overly tax your recovery ability - as Lee Haney used to say "Stimulate, don't annihilate" - lift heavy, push the weights up, but leave some gas in the tank and eat like a horse. Again, my 0.02.

Like I said, it's all up to the individual. Whatever you like/works for you, do it. I don't read "Flex" by the way (and if I ever did read something from it, I'd research it first thing before recommending it/doing it/etc.) and like I mentioned before, a lot of professional sports teams, namely NFL teams, use the kind of training I mentioned. I'm not disagreeing with anybody, I just happen to prefer the training style I mentioned in my example because it's an all-out, high-intensity approach (which I like). If there was one way of getting gains everybody would do it; like I said, find what works for you (and that you like), and just do it.