A few questions...

[Tighthead]

Hi Guys

I'm the newest newby on here and would like to introduce myself and ask a couple of questions.

I've been a regular visitor of these forums for the last three months, and I'm extremely grateful for all the information on here (especially for Gravityhomer and Marcus' stickys) . I'm 5' 10 and 211 at about 19%, down from the 238 I started at three or so months ago.

Like evereyone else I have a very unique set of circumstances that brought me to the point where I decided to drop the weight for once and all doing it the 'right way'. This left me limited in certain areas and I would like some advice on some issues. Most of them have been discussed, but there are a lot of conflicting information.

1. I cannot split my cardio and weights sessions, so I would like to know if it is better to do cardio or weights first and why. Currently I do 20 min. of HIIT, take a five minute break and then hit the weights. I know that a lot of people insist that it should be done the other way round, but they don't say why. I often go over the hour-mark when training. When should I start considering supplementation during training?

2. My supplement budget does not allow for a protien shake (stupid, I know, but I blew it all on stuff like CLA and Glutamine when I knew a lot less). In general I don't need extra protien (being an out-and-out carnivore), but I have trouble coming up with an effective pwo meal. Currently I do the egg-white in milk thing straight after my workout, but I know this is not ideal. Any suggestions?

3. I grew up playing rugby, and years of two hours behind a scrum machine three times a week, left me with some parts of my body well developed (most notably, quads, calves, hamstrings, chest, front delts and back) but others not. Currently I'm focussing on balancing out my muscle distribution and adding some much-needed width to my frame, so 90% of my training is targeting the lats, side and back delts, upper pecs and abs. Are there any potential pitfalls in doing this? I plan on sticking with this for another two months.

4. What are the benefits of doing a fasted cardio session? I'm looking to add this to my schedule on my days off from work, but my first instinct is to be scared of a catabolic response. My calorie intake is already pretty low at an average of 1800 per day.

5. I have some cholesterol issues, so going up to 20-30% fat on my macro split is just not an option. What am I missing out on by cutting out most fat, and how can I fix it without upping my overall fat intake? Currently I'm taking CLA and fish oil, but low to no fat on everything else.

That's about it, any advice will be appreciated.

[vatechguy]

Originally Posted by Tighthead

1. I cannot split my cardio and weights sessions, so I would like to know if it is better to do cardio or weights first and why.

The general idea is that you want your muscles full of energy to be able to lift with maximum intensity. I've done it both ways and I can tell you that your lifts will improve doing cardio after lifting much faster than the other way around. When you do cardio first, you're taxing your energy stores and then trying to lift heavy weights -> so your lifting suffers.

Originally Posted by Tighthead

When should I start considering supplementation during training?

I've heard of sipping a protein shake for the duration of a lifting session - but I don't think its neccessary. To each his own on that one I guess.

Originally Posted by Tighthead

2. My supplement budget does not allow for a protien shake (stupid, I know, but I blew it all on stuff like CLA and Glutamine when I knew a lot less). In general I don't need extra protien (being an out-and-out carnivore), but I have trouble coming up with an effective pwo meal. Currently I do the egg-white in milk thing straight after my workout, but I know this is not ideal. Any suggestions

I'll let others pipe in on this one - but I don't do the pre/post workout stuff like a lot do. I usually eat one of my regular meals within 30-45 minutes before I lift which consists of a regular 40-40-20 ratio.

Originally Posted by Tighthead

3. I grew up playing rugby, and years of two hours behind a scrum machine three times a week, left me with some parts of my body well developed (most notably, quads, calves, hamstrings, chest, front delts and back) but others not. Currently I'm focussing on balancing out my muscle distribution and adding some much-needed width to my frame, so 90% of my training is targeting the lats, side and back delts, upper pecs and abs. Are there any potential pitfalls in doing this? I plan on sticking with this for another two months.

While I wouldn't put a lot of focus on your lower body - don't neglect it outright. This sets you up for bad habits down the road when your upper body catches up. I have a decent lower body from soccer and biking way back myself - but still work it once a week.

Originally Posted by Tighthead

4. What are the benefits of doing a fasted cardio session? I'm looking to add this to my schedule on my days off from work, but my first instinct is to be scared of a catabolic response. My calorie intake is already pretty low at an average of 1800 per day.

The theory is since your glycogen stores are already depleted (usually from a night of fasting) your body will turn to fat stores during this unique time/situation of the day. No one agrees on its accuracy - I do it myself and think I get decent results. But if I had to eat before cardio - I wouldn't get all stressed out over it.

Originally Posted by Tighthead

5. I have some cholesterol issues, so going up to 20-30% fat on my macro split is just not an option. What am I missing out on by cutting out most fat, and how can I fix it without upping my overall fat intake? Currently I'm taking CLA and fish oil, but low to no fat on everything else.

In my expirience I've found it pretty difficult to get "no fat" in your diet. Some days mine dips as low as 13% - but I dont stress over it. Fat is one of those things your body needs to function - but in pretty limited quantities. For the cholesterol piece - you should focus (like it sounds like you are anyway) on unsaturated healthy fats from fish and flax. This should get your "good" cholesterol up and help bring the bad ones down.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tighthead]

Originally Posted by vatechguy

The general idea is that you want your muscles full of energy to be able to lift with maximum intensity. I've done it both ways and I can tell you that your lifts will improve doing cardio after lifting much faster than the other way around. When you do cardio first, you're taxing your energy stores and then trying to lift heavy weights -> so your lifting suffers.

I've heard of sipping a protein shake for the duration of a lifting session - but I don't think its neccessary. To each his own on that one I guess.


I'll let others pipe in on this one - but I don't do the pre/post workout stuff like a lot do. I usually eat one of my regular meals within 30-45 minutes before I lift which consists of a regular 40-40-20 ratio.

While I wouldn't put a lot of focus on your lower body - don't neglect it outright. This sets you up for bad habits down the road when your upper body catches up. I have a decent lower body from soccer and biking way back myself - but still work it once a week.

The theory is since your glycogen stores are already depleted (usually from a night of fasting) your body will turn to fat stores during this unique time/situation of the day. No one agrees on its accuracy - I do it myself and think I get decent results. But if I had to eat before cardio - I wouldn't get all stressed out over it.

In my expirience I've found it pretty difficult to get "no fat" in your diet. Some days mine dips as low as 13% - but I dont stress over it. Fat is one of those things your body needs to function - but in pretty limited quantities. For the cholesterol piece - you should focus (like it sounds like you are anyway) on unsaturated healthy fats from fish and flax. This should get your "good" cholesterol up and help bring the bad ones down.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm not completely ignoring my lower body, I do calves and legs once a week. I didn't mention it because I'm worried about being unbalanced in the upper body.

I'm relieved to hear that I'm not the only one not doing a liquid pwo meal with all kinds of different carbs and dextrose.

Of course there is no such thing as a no fat diet, but if there is, I'm the one closest to it (apart from the CLA and fish oil) Skimmed milk is the only dairy I use, and the vast majority if products I use have less than 3 grams of fat per 100 gr. No saturated or trans fatty acis if I can help it. I've even dropped lean beef for ostrich and game. As I said, I did this on doctor's orders, but have since found out about how fats are needed for hormonal balance, which may be true, but it is vague. I need to know if I can supplement with something specific to compensate.

The problem I have with the theory behind fasted cardio is that I don't believe your body can burn fat on it's own. Everything I've read boiled down to fat being burned in conjunction with either carbs or protein and in different ratios according to heart rate. Now if you purposefully wait until there's nothing to burn but fat, your body has no option to turn to muscle for energy. But I'm very much uneducated on this subject, and if I can be convinced that I'm wrong, I'll add it to my schedule.

I think I'm going to give the cardio/weights swop a try this afternoon.