What do you think about this routine?

[thedrizzle]

I'm trying to figure out a good 4 day split. My goal is no longer strength, but merely size. I got a little tired of trying to figure out my own routine and came across this one, the funny thing is most of the exercises I already had in my old routine, so I must have been doing something right I hope.

Anyways here's a link to the routine:

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wor...t-workout.html

I'm just wondering if I should sub one exercise for another one? There is no deadlift in there which kind of makes me sad. Also, could someone perhaps explain how that rep scheme works? Should I progressively load more weight on so I am able to barely finish each set? And how long would you suggest waiting between sets?

Any help or information is greatly appreciated.

[George]

I don't like the routine posted. The way the reps are set-up make it needlessly confusing and I can see progression being a problem. Also, exercise selection could be better.

Here's a good 4-day split from Mastover:

MONDAY:
Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Stiff leg Deads 4x10

TUESDAY:
Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Cambered bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10

THURSDAY:
Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
BB Curl 4x8-12

FRIDAY:
Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
Seated Calf Raise 2x15
Standing Calf Raise 2x10

Try to increase weight or reps every week. Don't forget to eat enough in order to grow. I'm going to repeat that you need to eat enough in order to grow.

[Big_D]

Originally Posted by George

I don't like the routine posted. The way the reps are set-up make it needlessly confusing and I can see progression being a problem. Also, exercise selection could be better.

Here's a good 4-day split from Mastover:

MONDAY:
Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Stiff leg Deads 4x10

TUESDAY:
Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Cambered bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10

THURSDAY:
Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
BB Curl 4x8-12

FRIDAY:
Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
Seated Calf Raise 2x15
Standing Calf Raise 2x10

Try to increase weight or reps every week. Don't forget to eat enough in order to grow. I'm going to repeat that you need to eat enough in order to grow.

I just wrote a program eeeerily close to that.

[George]

Originally Posted by Big_D

I just wrote a program eeeerily close to that.

next thing you know you'll be popping liver tabs and training at 3 in the morning

[CA$ON]

I just started the routine posted above. Well worth a shot. so far I like it a lot.

[thedrizzle]

Originally Posted by CA$ON

I just started the routine posted above. Well worth a shot. so far I like it a lot.

Which one? The one George posted? How do you go about doing that? Like, warm up 1 or 2 sets and then do your max? Or do some warmup sets until you reach your max, and then do all the sets. An example would be nice please, thanks.

And I know, eating is like 70% of growing.

[CA$ON]

Originally Posted by thedrizzle

Which one? The one George posted? How do you go about doing that? Like, warm up 1 or 2 sets and then do your max? Or do some warmup sets until you reach your max, and then do all the sets. An example would be nice please, thanks.

And I know, eating is like 70% of growing.

The one George posted thats from Mastovers website. Here is a link to my journal, it should help you. If you have anymore questions on it post up.

Page 30. http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/s...=47548&page=30

[thedrizzle]

Yeah, last question. Can you explain how the sets should work? For example, Squats 5x5-10, Should I do 5 sets of 5-10 reps with my max weight? Or do I use some of those sets as warm up sets to reach my max. Or should I do warm up sets before hand and then my max of 5 sets?

If possible could you give an example please so I'm totally clear? Thanks.

[CA$ON]

Originally Posted by thedrizzle

Yeah, last question. Can you explain how the sets should work? For example, Squats 5x5-10, Should I do 5 sets of 5-10 reps with my max weight? Or do I use some of those sets as warm up sets to reach my max. Or should I do warm up sets before hand and then my max of 5 sets?

If possible could you give an example please so I'm totally clear? Thanks.

I don't do warm up sets.

5 sets between the 5-10 rep range.

Think about this. If you can squat 200lbs for 10 times and thats your max keep doing it for the other sets. Needless to say you will drop down in reps usually because of fatigue. So with using the same 200lbs you can get 10 reps one set maybe 2 and then the third set would be around 8 or so and the fourth would be around 6 and so on. Now notice he doesn't tell you THIS many reps on this set. He gave you a range. You should always try for maximum reps. Intensity is key.

Thats the way I understand it. If I am wrong someone correct me.

[mastover]

Originally Posted by thedrizzle

Yeah, last question. Can you explain how the sets should work? For example, Squats 5x5-10, Should I do 5 sets of 5-10 reps with my max weight? Or do I use some of those sets as warm up sets to reach my max. Or should I do warm up sets before hand and then my max of 5 sets?

If possible could you give an example please so I'm totally clear? Thanks.

The sets listed does not include warmup sets. Only the work sets are listed. You can use the same weight, or use the pyramid method, or reverse pyramid method. Once you are able to complete all working sets in the highest rep ranges specified, increase weights for next time. Here is an example with Squats:

Using the same weight for all 5 sets:
5x225x10,8,6,6,5

Once you can complete all 5 sets of 10 reps with 225 lbs., increase the weight by 5-7 percent for next session. Or, you can increase the weights and try again for the same rep sequence - 10,8,6,6,5

Pyramid method:
1x185x10
1x205x8
1x225x6
1x245x6
1x255x5

You can, A) increase weights on all sets for next time, or B) simply increase the weights on your final two sets and try for 5-6 reps again.

Reverse Pyramid:
1x255x5
1x235x7
1x225x8
1x205x10
1x205x10

Here, you begin with your heaviest set first, then as you decrease your weights on each set, your reps should increase.

Whatever method you choose, stick to it for at least 6 weeks, then choose another one of the three options.

This 4 day routine is quite demanding and will require plenty of first class protein and adequate rest. Looks easy on paper. Trust me.... it's not

[mastover]

Originally Posted by George

next thing you know you'll be popping liver tabs and training at 3 in the morning

[CA$ON]

Originally Posted by mastover

The sets listed does not include warmup sets. Only the work sets are listed. You can use the same weight, or use the pyramid method, or reverse pyramid method. Once you are able to complete all working sets in the highest rep ranges specified, increase weights for next time. Here is an example with Squats:

Using the same weight for all 5 sets:
5x225x10,8,6,6,5

Once you can complete all 5 sets of 10 reps with 225 lbs., increase the weight by 5-7 percent for next session. Or, you can increase the weights and try again for the same rep sequence - 10,8,6,6,5

Pyramid method:
1x185x10
1x205x8
1x225x6
1x245x6
1x255x5

You can, A) increase weights on all sets for next time, or B) simply increase the weights on your final two sets and try for 5-6 reps again.

Reverse Pyramid:
1x255x5
1x235x7
1x225x8
1x205x10
1x205x10

Here, you begin with your heaviest set first, then as you decrease your weights on each set, your reps should increase.

Whatever method you choose, stick to it for at least 6 weeks, then choose another one of the three options.

This 4 day routine is quite demanding and will require plenty of first class protein and adequate rest. Looks easy on paper. Trust me.... it's not

Would you use one technique over the other for certain aspects or are they all pretty much the same and just allow you to "change up" things?

[mastover]

Originally Posted by CA$ON

Would you use one technique over the other for certain aspects or are they all pretty much the same and just allow you to "change up" things?

I prefer the reverse pyramid method for hypertrophy and strength. You begin with the heaviest weight first, tapping into the most motor units and white twitch muscles. This is an advanced technique, however, and should be used with caution, and only sparingly by the natural lifter as it is very easy to burn out and overtrain if you do not have the nutritional backup. I would not do reverse pyramid while calories are below maintenance. Each set is basically an all out effort, more in line with how Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates trained. Heavy Duty style.

[CA$ON]

Originally Posted by mastover

I prefer the reverse pyramid method for hypertrophy and strength. You begin with the heaviest weight first, tapping into the most motor units and white twitch muscles. This is an advanced technique, however, and should be used with caution, and only sparingly by the natural lifter as it is very easy to burn out and overtrain if you do not have the nutritional backup. I would not do reverse pyramid while calories are below maintenance. Each set is basically an all out effort, more in line with how Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates trained. Heavy Duty style.

Makes sense.

I'm going to stick with same weight for a bit to get used to everything. Like you mentioned atleast 6 weeks.

[thedrizzle]

Thank you Mastover, I greatly appreciate the response. So I have a few more questions.

There are 2 exercises I am unable to do at my gym due to the equipment not being there. One is the weighted dips, which they don't have an unassisted dip machine. The other is the cambered bar skullcrushers. They don't have a cambered bar. They do have an EZ bar though, don't know if that's just as fine. Is there any other exercise I can substitute those for? If so, what should their rep scheme be like?

My second question is, can I put in a 5th day for cardio and abs?

And my last question is something I don't want to ask, but can't help. I plan to use the same weight for every set, so not using a pyramid scheme. I hope this helps increase my size, but at the same time can't help but wonder, isn't this too much training? I'll do everything that is said though if you tell me so.

[mastover]

Originally Posted by thedrizzle

Thank you Mastover, I greatly appreciate the response. So I have a few more questions.

There are 2 exercises I am unable to do at my gym due to the equipment not being there. One is the weighted dips, which they don't have an unassisted dip machine. The other is the cambered bar skullcrushers. They don't have a cambered bar. They do have an EZ bar though, don't know if that's just as fine. Is there any other exercise I can substitute those for? If so, what should their rep scheme be like?

My second question is, can I put in a 5th day for cardio and abs?

And my last question is something I don't want to ask, but can't help. I plan to use the same weight for every set, so not using a pyramid scheme. I hope this helps increase my size, but at the same time can't help but wonder, isn't this too much training? I'll do everything that is said though if you tell me so.

First of all, you shouldn't blindly accept what anyone suggests for you, me or anyone else, without doing some research and some leg work to see what is going to work. This routine would be too much for anyone if the nutritional requirements weren't addressed. For mass gains and even for physique refinement, the diet will come out to perhaps 85% of the equation. If you talk to former Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, he believes it's higher than that. More like 90%.

For the dips you can substitute flat or decline bench presses. Yes, the cambered bar is the EZ curl bar.

You can use the same weight on each set. As long as you work progressively by adding more weight to the bar once you are able to complete the top rep ranges specified in each set, and you are eating at a caloric surplus with plenty of protein, clean carbs, and good healthy fats, you should definitely see size increases since this is more of a bodybuilding type program.

If this 4 day per week routine is too much, you can add in more rest days between workouts or simply do a 3 day routine.