Hi Guys,

Most peps are saying to comsume a good amount of water, i have a brita water filter than i use to purify water what effect does this have on the nutrients in normal water as my understanding is that it removes impurities from the water but could these be needed ?

Your typical Brita filter is nothing but activated charcoal, and will not strip any nutrients from the water. Reverse Osmosis systems have a tendency to strip more minerals from the water, since the water is passed thru a membrane filter.
If you ever get tired of changing the filter cartriges in your Brita, I would highly recommend this Countertop (http://www.equinox-products.com/EquinoxEQ-10CountertopWaterFiltrationSystem.htm) unit which is rated at more than 5000 gallons.

I'm an expert in water filtration systems. I'll try to keep this short and non-technical.

Most domestic water supplies do not require filtering of any kind. I'll tell you what you can do to improve the taste of tapwater momentarily.

Water filtration systems that attach to your faucet or have replaceable cartridges (such as the Brita pitchers) do not remove any appreciable contaminants in tap water. Why? In most cases, water quality (in the US) is so good that the water no longer contains contaminants in any appreciable amount that can be captured by the type of media that they use in the Brita-style filters. The media utilized is most often carbonaceous (like Brita or most faucet attachments) or diatomaceous (earthen filters in larger systems). What this means is that they use porous media such as carbon (or sand in larger diatomaceous filters) to filter the water. The concept is that the carbon has tiny pores that capture the contaminants in the water. Each tiny granule of carbon in the small filter has only a certain amount of surface area with pores to capture contaminants from the water. Once all the tiny pores in the carbon have been clogged with contaminant, they can no filter anything out. To recharge carbon, it has to be taken to a furnace and the contaminants have to be cooked out of the carbon. This is done on a large scale at plants that utilize carbonaceous filtration. This form of filtration is used at secondary plants (plants that produce drinking water - primary plants are those that filter wastewater). Sand filters can simply be backwashed (like your average swimming pool filter) to remove contamination from the sand filter, because unlike carbon, sand does not bind to the contaminant it removes.

Now you tell me - with a water filter that's roughly 2" in diameter and 3" tall - can you really remove a good amount of contaminant from your drinking water? Of course you can't. This is especially true of carbonaceous faucet attachments. Since you're passing gallon after gallon of water through this filter every time you open your faucet, assuming there actually was enough contaminant to be removed from your tap water, how long do you realisitically think it takes to achieve breakthrough? ("Breakthrough" is the point where the filter is "used up" and is simply bypassing the water because no more pores are available in the carbon to capture contaminants.) I assure you it is not very long at all.

The only means of home water filtration that provides true contaminant removal is reverse osmosis. RO will filter water so purely (RO filtration can remove viruses from water - that's a particle that is 10^-9 meters, or 1 nanometer in size) that you have to soften it after the RO filtration occurs.

To improve the taste of your tap water, put it in a gallon jug and just stick it in the fridge. In roughly 24 hours, the chlorine (or other disinfectant) will precipitate out of the water and your water will taste pretty darn close to that you'd get from any old spring water bottle. If you want your water more pure than that, use a reputable water delivery service or invest in an RO system. Keep in mind that the RO system also requires maintenance as the filters need to be descaled or replaced periodically and they're not all that cheap, so the simpler solution would be to subscribe to a drinking water service, unless the water in your community is so atrocious that you need to install a good filtration system to protect the pipes and appliances in your home.

Hope this helps.

ah thats an eye opener then :) next time the cartridges are due to be replaced i just wont bother and will just fill the containers up and leave them in the fridge as i currently do.

ah thats an eye opener then :) next time the cartridges are due to be replaced i just wont bother and will just fill the containers up and leave them in the fridge as i currently do.

That's exactly what we do. I have a 2.5 gallon Brita pitcher with no filter in it. Between the wife and I, since we drink H2O like camels, it gets filled just about daily. ;)

Thanks for the suggestion and all the info, Bluestreak. If what you say is true, I'm going to save a nice amount of money on Brita filters :)

Hey Bluestreak - great reply and helpful!

So you live close to me (Oviedo FL), how's your water taste right from the tap? Mine is not horrible, but I think it could be better.

I do use a brita filter that attaches on the faucet in the kitchen. I fill up a couple gallons a night and put them in the fridge for the next day.

But what you wrote is interesting because of this - once the filter is old or bad, the light turns red. Well mine has been red for about 4 months and I have not changed it lol, but I have noticed NO difference in taste from when I bought the filter brand new. Judging by your post, and from my procedure of leaving the water in the fridge a day or 2 before drinking it, I could just be pouring water directly from the faucet into the water bottles, putting them into my fridge, and drinking them a few days later, right?

Anyway, thanks for the post.

So you live close to me (Oviedo FL), how's your water taste right from the tap? Mine is not horrible, but I think it could be better.

It's not like spring water, but it's very drinkable after the chlorine precipitates out. Before the chlorine precipitates out, it's like sipping pool water. Think they're paranoid about water supply contamination?

I do use a brita filter that attaches on the faucet in the kitchen. I fill up a couple gallons a night and put them in the fridge for the next day.

That's pretty good. It takes about 24~48 hours for the chlorine to precipitate out of tap water in the fridge.

But what you wrote is interesting because of this - once the filter is old or bad, the light turns red. Well mine has been red for about 4 months and I have not changed it lol, but I have noticed NO difference in taste from when I bought the filter brand new. Judging by your post, and from my procedure of leaving the water in the fridge a day or 2 before drinking it, I could just be pouring water directly from the faucet into the water bottles, putting them into my fridge, and drinking them a few days later, right?

Yes. Just put jugs of water in the fridge, try to think about 48 hours ahead. Chlorine obviously has a distinct, pungent odor and taste and that's what offends most peoples' palettes when drinking tap water.

Yes, your filter is fully crapped out if it turns red. I'm also not saying the don't filter anything out - they do - but the amount of contaminant a filter cartridge of that type will a.) see and b.) actually capture are so minimal, I reallly doubt you'd be able to detect a taste difference. You're doing more to help your tastebuds by doing what you have been - filling jugs and putting them in the fridge.

Great reply on all points. Thanks a lot!!

BTW - I had lunch with Eric last week. Looks like he's going to train my girlfriend. I won't thread dreail, will go to PM. :)

Thanks again
Chris

Bluestreak, how long do you think it takes, on average, for a Brita filter to become completely "clogged"?

Hey Bluestreak. Really interesting information! I always wondered why water in the fridge was so refreshing...

Anyway, I have a question: If the Chlorine precipitates out of the solution, does it all settle at the bottom of the container? If so, will drinking the last bit of water also give you a big dose of precipitated chlorine? Is Chlorine insoluable in water at refrigerator temperature?

(sorry for the bombardment...i need my dose of chemistry today :))

1FastGTX - you have PM.

IMSuxok - I really don't know what the effective life of a Brita filter is. I don't have my wastewater treatment textbooks handy here, but breakthrough on a Brita filter will depend on several variables. First is the contaminant levels in your domestic water supply. Secondary to that are the amount of water you pass through the filter (obviously) and I can't remember my equations from my textbooks, but I believe the type of carbon used in the filter (which I don't know what type of activated carbon Brita uses) likely has an impact on the effectiveness of the Brita filter.

mwhalber - You guys are testing the limits of my ability to remember engineering chemistry! :p Class... today we'll be discussing chlorine and disinfection byproducts. Chlorine is usually injected into water as a liquid or gas... here goes.

Chlorine keeps our water safe by combining with several contaminants in our water supply:

-chemicals dissolved in water
-microorganisms
-small animals
-plant material
-tastes
-odors
-colors (aka "turbidity")

These contaminants combine with chlorine as it is added and in turn "use up" chlorine added to the water. This initial chlorination amount is known as the water's "chlorine demand". It is extremely important to add sufficient chlorine to the water to meet the chlorine demand. This is done in a large water tank with baffles in it to provide a specific amount of chlorine contact time.

Secondary to the chlorine demand is the water's ability to provide "residual disinfection" through free chlorine radicals (Cl-) in the water. So... chlorine that does not combine with other components in the water (the "chlorine demand" above) is called free or residual chlorine, and the breakpoint is the point at which free chlorine is available for continuous disinfection. Ideally, free chlorine is in your drinking water supply is at concentrations around 0.3~0.5 mg/l (mg/l is also expressed at "parts per million" or "ppm").

Then there's disinfection byproducts. The one you usually hear most about are called trihalomethanes (THMs for short) are chemicals that are formed, primarily in surface water, when naturally occurring organic materials combine with free chlorine. THMs are known carcinogens (cancer causing agents). The potential for human exposure to THMs from drinking water varies with the time of year, contact time, water temperature, pH of the water, water chemistry and disinfection method (obviously - use other methods of disinfections other than chlorine or supplement the chlorine with other methods and you reduce the ability of free chlorine residuals to create THMs). Although there is a risk from consuming THMs in chlorinated drinking water, the health hazards of undisinfected water are much, much greater. The primary standard (maximum contaminant level) for total THMs in drinking water is 0.10 mg/l, and activated carbon filtration removes THMs from water. This in where Brita pitchers are more than likely aimed - at our fears of THMs in drinking water. Since they contain activated carbon, they can remove THMs. However, considering that THMs are allowed a maximum of 0.1 ppm, you can imagine how small an amount that is and its innocuous to humans over our lifetime because in most domestic water supplies, THMs are even well below 0.1 ppm.

In the end, geez... what a way to answer a question... chlorine precipitates out of your refrigerated drinking waters as a gas. Detectable levels (by taste) of chlorine in water precipitates out within about 48 hours, but you have residual disinfection in your bottled refrigerated water for up to 7+ days. If the treatment plant uses gaseous chlorine, your water will lose its residual disinfection slightly faster than if they introduce liquid chlorine (which has a higher chlorine content - about 5~6% chlorine as opposed to 4% for gaseous chlorine, and liquid chlorine is more stable).

When you open the cap to pour yourself some water, the chlorine goes its merry way. Humans can detect the presence of chlorine at airborne concentrations of 0.5-ppm or greater; since free residual chlorine is usually present below 0.5-ppm (more like 0.3~0.5 as stated above), you can usually just barely detect the scent of chlorine on drinking water as it's dispensed from your faucet. Chlorine precipitates out of hot water faster (the energy created by heat in the water agitates chlorine, moving free radicals through the water faster, causing it to either collide with contaminant matter present or to exit the water as a gas). So if you want your water to clear a little more chlorine faster, put HOT water in a jug and stick it in the fridge. This really isn't necessary, but it would speed up the removal of detectable chlorine a bit faster... don't ask me, I don't know how much faster. :)

Does that answer everyone's questions? ;)

Don't know if this helps anyone, but I have well water and the Brita filter does make a big difference in the taste and clarity of my tap water. It's very noticeable

Thanks Bluestreak!!!

ah thats an eye opener then :) next time the cartridges are due to be replaced i just wont bother and will just fill the containers up and leave them in the fridge as i currently do.


Remove the cartrige though as the carbon filter is a very common place for microbes to colonize.

ATTENTION!!!
To people living in Canada, Ontario....partuculary Toronto.....please do not drink from tap! :p

ATTENTION!!!
To people living in Canada, Ontario....partuculary Toronto.....please do not drink from tap! :p

What's wrong with the tap water in Toronto, besides the taste?

What's wrong with the tap water in Toronto, besides the taste?

Its dirty :(

Its dirty :(

Describe dirty, please. Discolored? Taste? Just something you read/heard? Or results of tests you've had performed on your tap water? (If a test is available, please post the water analysis). Inquiring minds wanna know...

-R

Just to throw this off in a different/similar direction...how about showering in municiple tap water? They clorinate the water supply to kill the bacteria, and that will dissapate if left standing...but doesn't the clorine vaporize at a lower temp than water? Didn't they use clorine gas in the war? Ever feel light headed after taking a nice hot shower(and inhaling all that nice clorine vapor)? When you take a nice hot shower, your pores open up, so you've got that nice mainline effect for the clorine right into your system. Just something else to think about... :confused:

Ever feel light headed after taking a nice hot shower(and inhaling all that nice clorine vapor)? When you take a nice hot shower, your pores open up, so you've got that nice mainline effect for the clorine right into your system. Just something else to think about... :confused:

I've debunked this argument in the past. I don't have much supporting information handy beyond my disinfection textbook, so a good deal of this comes from memory. I'll say up front that chlorine inhalation in showers/baths is negligible and most of the information you'll find on this subject is propaganda perpetuated by water filtration companies preying on public fear of water contamination or possible poisoning from water/chlorine content.

First - residual chlorine will not be absorbed through the skin. Upon contact with your body, the residual chlorine will not be absorbed - it contacts and kills skin cells (remember, chlorine seeks out organics in water and binds to them, thereby killing them - this is the reason skin feels dry after exposure to chlorinated water - lots of dead skin is attached to you). It will not be absorbed through pores, or if enough of it survives to be absorbed, the dose is infinitely small so as to have no negligible effect on the body.

Second, some facts about human/chlorine interaction are as follows for short term, high level chlorine exposure:

- Chlorine vapor (at levels of 5-6 ppm in air) will irritate the eyes. At 15~30 ppm exposure, nose and throat irritation will occur. Drinking levels over 4 ppm can cause throat and stomach irritation, nausea and vomiting.

-Shortly after exposure to 30 ppm or more of chlorine gas, symptoms may be chest pain, vomiting, coughing, breathing problems, and/or excess fluid in their lungs.

- Exposure to 430 ppm in air for 30 minutes will cause death. A single dose of 1000 ppm will cause sudden death.

Now let's do some math.

The average human moves roughly 500 mL of air through their lungs per breath at an average of roughly 12 breaths per minute for normal activity. Therefore, a person will move 6 liters of air per minute through their body.

Water as it discharges from your faucet rarely has more than 0.5 mg/L (0.5 ppm) - it's usually around 0.3 ppm, but we'll assume 0.5 for these purposes. That is, 0.5 ppm of free chlorine for residual disinfection. Chlorine readily vaporizes in normal atmospheric conditions; it is not reasonable to assume that the aerated water discharged from your showerhead immediately and completely releases its chlorine content to the air, but for shits and grins, let's say all 0.5 ppm are immediately and totally released to the air. Let's further assume you shower in an airtight box - no outside fresh air gets in. So, as soon as you open the shower faucet, you're getting 0.5 mg/L of gaseous Cl-. You would inhale:

6 L/min * 0.5 mg/L = 3 mg/min inhaled Cl-.

Now, you're going to take a 10 minute shower. That's 30 mg's Cl- you could totally, possibly inhale. As stated above, exposure to 30 ppm of Cl- would result in a number of unpleasant side effects. However, this 30 ppm is not a feasible ingestion number because not all the chlorine will gaseously precipitate out nor will it be totally inhaled by a person in such a situation. Any gaseous chlorine in this small a dosage will, again, be stripped away by its combining with your bodily tissue, most likely before ever reaching your lungs. And I don't know about you, but when I get out of the shower, I usually feel much better - I'm not feeling nauseous or vomiting as the above exposure amounts would suggest I should be.

The "mainline effect" you speak of is likely due to hyperthermia and increased heart rate due to the increase in body temperature associated with continuous exposure to an atmosphere more than 2~3 degrees above body temperature. Notice how quickly that effect wears off as soon as you exit the shower? Such would not be the case if chlorine were absorbed by your skin; that would mean the Cl- would be in the bloodstream and the only way to strip the toxin would be through liver function. As we all know, the liver takes hours to remove toxins, not seconds or minutes.

So take your hot showers and don't worry about chlorine vapor ingestion, unless you shower with an open bottle of laundry bleach in there with you.

-R

Bluestreak, getting back to the Brita filters, do they do a good job at removing lead and other non-biological contaminants?

Thanks for the thorough debunking of the chlorine inhalation theory, by the way :)

Bluestreak, getting back to the Brita filters, do they do a good job at removing lead and other non-biological contaminants?

In all fairness, Brita filters likely do remove contaminants. How good a job? Without a lab and some special test machinery, I can't tell you. If you'd asked me that question when I was in my senior design classes five years ago, I could have told you. If I had a water/wastewater treatment book handy (I lent mine out years ago and never got it back :d_mad:) I could calculate how long breakthrough (i.e., failure of the filter) takes to be achieved in a Brita filter. I haven't done that in over five years... but I could still pull it off. Maybe I'll dig out my PE study manual and look up carbon adsorption problems for grins.

Activated carbon is a highly efficient water purifier. It's outstanding for applications requiring taste, odor and color (turbidity) removal from water with suspended matter present. It is useful across a wide range of pH levels. It's more used for taste enhancement, odor and color loading removal. The last thing activated carbon does, because it removes the tiniest particles from water, is it adds a "polish" if you will to the water. The water tends to be very clear-looking. It does remove chlorine faster than time will.