This whole post regards strength, not size.

I read somewhere that you can get great results by first doing an exercise using heavy weights and going quite slow, working your slow twitch muscle fibres for maximum strength, and afterwards doing the same exercise with explosive force, working your fast twitch muscle fibres to get more explosive overall. Does anybody know if this is good or bad?

The reason I'm asking is that I would really like to increase my explosive force, since I want to get faster and more agile. I don't want to sacrifice my raw strength to do this though, so I was wondering if this is a good way, or I should rather change my program from slow twitch to fast twitch for a few weeks every now and then.

I did try to search for this, but I couldn't find anything. If you know a thread on this topic, please post it.

Basically, if you want to increase your explosive strength, you want to work on power. Power being, moving as much weight as fast as possible. Instead of doing the typical 70-80% sets at a 3/1/1 tempo, you want to bump your weights to 85-100% and step up your tempo to AFAP.(as fast as possible) The obsticle that you need to overcome is the govenor built into your central nervous system. Basically...you want to reset that govenor. If you also want to work on your agillity at the same time, you may want to incorporate some medicine ball passes, ladder drills, and plyometrics. If you had a place where you could slam a medicine ball against a wall for a few sets, that would be great. Or, if you have a partner that you could really whip a medicine ball back and forth with, that would be ideal. So it would go weight training, then reactive training, and both should be incorporated in the same session. I'm really only skimming over the surface on this one, but if you'd like, I could put together a more detailed w/o...and you can give it a try.
Remember, in regards to speed, strength, and agillity, you really need to work on teaching the CNS to be able to react to all of those variables at once.

Basically, if you want to increase your explosive strength, you want to work on power. Power being, moving as much weight as fast as possible. Instead of doing the typical 70-80% sets at a 3/1/1 tempo, you want to bump your weights to 85-100% and step up your tempo to AFAP.(as fast as possible) The obsticle that you need to overcome is the govenor built into your central nervous system. Basically...you want to reset that govenor. If you also want to work on your agillity at the same time, you may want to incorporate some medicine ball passes, ladder drills, and plyometrics. If you had a place where you could slam a medicine ball against a wall for a few sets, that would be great. Or, if you have a partner that you could really whip a medicine ball back and forth with, that would be ideal. So it would go weight training, then reactive training, and both should be incorporated in the same session. I'm really only skimming over the surface on this one, but if you'd like, I could put together a more detailed w/o...and you can give it a try.
Remember, in regards to speed, strength, and agillity, you really need to work on teaching the CNS to be able to react to all of those variables at once.
Thanks for the reply Kino. I have a few questions on what you wrote if you don't mind.

You say that you should up the weight when going for explosive strength. What is the benefit from doing high weight low reps over low weight high reps when it comes to fast twitch muscle training?

Reactive training is a new expression for me, is that the same as using explosive force?

When you write "So it would go weight training, then reactive training, and both should be incorporated in the same session.", does it mean that I do all my weight training first, and then move to reactive training (explosiveness), or does it mean that I use every exercise like that?

I appreciate your willingness to help with my program. I've seen that you helped other members before, and I might just pm you some day. I'm not looking for something too far from my own program though, just so you know.

Again, thanks for your time.

You say that you should up the weight when going for explosive strength. What is the benefit from doing high weight low reps over low weight high reps when it comes to fast twitch muscle training?

Look at the term explosive strength. Explosive strength does not mean moving some pandy ass amount of weight in your own time. Explosive strength depending on your definition, would probably be most closely related to the term power. Power meaning moving as much weight as possible as quickly as possible. When I think of power, or explosive strength, I'm thinking about somebody cleaning 400-500lbs. Explosive force, would be refering to a rep tempo...Explosive strength, would be the result of training. Two totally different animals. I was mistaken, in stating training formats that would be most advantagous to speed and agillity, which is the part of your post that most stuck out.

Reactive training is a new expression for me, is that the same as using explosive force?

Reactive training is another term for plyometrics or power training but more emphasizes how the body "reacts" when coming into contact with the ground, or another surface. One of the primary objectives of including reactive training in a training program is to learn to effectively slow the body down and absorb force properly through the body.(such as proper landing technique, or catching, redirecting, and throwing a medicine ball) Another primary objective of reactive training would be to learn to move at faster speeds when needed.

When you write "So it would go weight training, then reactive training, and both should be incorporated in the same session.", does it mean that I do all my weight training first, and then move to reactive training (explosiveness), or does it mean that I use every exercise like that?

If you were looking to do Power Training, it would be a strength exercise first, then another exercise at maximum speed with a lower weight/resistance....IE: 10% Bodyweight.
For Chest...
2 Arm Dumbbell Chest Press 5 Reps at 85% intensity, AFAP, followed by 10 Medicine Ball Chest Passes at about 3% bodyweight, Explosive(force)
For Legs...
Leg Press 5 Reps at 85% intensity, AFAP, followed by 10 Squat Jumps, Explosive.
You can also incorporate ladder drills, and other quickness and agillity training methods, based on the desired results.
This is an effective method of retraining the CNS to adapt to rapid changes in acceleration/deceleration.

I appreciate your willingness to help with my program. I've seen that you helped other members before, and I might just pm you some day. I'm not looking for something too far from my own program though, just so you know.
Again, thanks for your time.

Once again, I think that I misread your initial post, in thinking that you were looking to train for SAQ.(Speed/Agillity/Quickness)
As far as training slow twitch/fast twitch fibers in the same session, I've really only seen the two day take on this. Such as calf training...I've seen training two different days, for the different muscles involved.
Day 1
1. Seated single calf raise 4 Sets 12-20 Reps to failure
2. Cable dorsi-flexion 4 Sets 6-12 Reps to failure
3. Seated calf raise toes in 2 Sets 2-15 Reps to failure
Day 2
1. Standing single calf raise 4 Sets 6-9 Reps to failure
2. Donkey calf raise 4 Sets 6-9 Reps to failure
3. Machine calf toes-out 2 Sets 8-12 Reps to failure

I also know of working a typical slow twitch muscle with high 100 rep step bombs. But my understanding of that method is to perform the 100 reps on a recovering muscle group, not on the main group that you are working. Where you are not going for a training style, but a hormone and in this case mitochondria effect within the fiber itself.
(please don't ask me to explain that one...because that sentence is all I understand...LOL)

[LATE EDIT] Vince Gironda did advocate a 12,8,6,20 format, but that was not a rep format to follow on a continuous basis. That was to use in a case where your current training had gone stale. So something such as that rep sequence, would not be considered training slow and fast twitch muscle fibers at the same time. You've peaked my curiousity...so I'll probably see what I can find out about this. I've never had the need to train in such a fashion before, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a good method.

I'll read post 2 or 3 times in the future before responding... :lol:

Look at the term explosive strength. Explosive strength does not mean moving some pandy ass amount of weight in your own time. Explosive strength depending on your definition, would probably be most closely related to the term power. Power meaning moving as much weight as possible as quickly as possible. When I think of power, or explosive strength, I'm thinking about somebody cleaning 400-500lbs. Explosive force, would be refering to a rep tempo...Explosive strength, would be the result of training. Two totally different animals. I was mistaken, in stating training formats that would be most advantagous to speed and agillity, which is the part of your post that most stuck out.
I might have a somewhat twisted idea of different expressions, since english is not my first language. Still, I think you mostly have the right idea about what I was after posting this thread.

It is speed and agility (a word I translate as "the ability to change directions quickly") that I'm after. The reason being playing football, and wanting to be quicker on the field. Better acceleration, higher top speed, smaller turning radius... It would all make me a better player. It would mainly have to do with the legs, but arms come into play when blocking and such.

Anyway, what I was thinking about upping the weight is that if I did that, I would not be able to move it that fast, which feels contradicting to wanting to work the fast twitch fibres. I don't need to clean 400 lbs if I want to meet my goal, I need to be able to move my body as fast as possible. To me, it would make more sense to start with teaching myself how to move a little weight fast, and then moving up later. Since force equals mass times acceleration, I would rather be able to accelerate moderate weights fast than high weights a little slower, if that meant loss of highest possible acceleration. Oh, this is probably confusing...
Reactive training is another term for plyometrics or power training but more emphasizes how the body "reacts" when coming into contact with the ground, or another surface. One of the primary objectives of including reactive training in a training program is to learn to effectively slow the body down and absorb force properly through the body.(such as proper landing technique, or catching, redirecting, and throwing a medicine ball) Another primary objective of reactive training would be to learn to move at faster speeds when needed.
I think I understand this.
If you were looking to do Power Training, it would be a strength exercise first, then another exercise at maximum speed with a lower weight/resistance....IE: 10% Bodyweight.
For Chest...
2 Arm Dumbbell Chest Press 5 Reps at 85% intensity, AFAP, followed by 10 Medicine Ball Chest Passes at about 3% bodyweight, Explosive(force)
For Legs...
Leg Press 5 Reps at 85% intensity, AFAP, followed by 10 Squat Jumps, Explosive.
You can also incorporate ladder drills, and other quickness and agillity training methods, based on the desired results.
This is an effective method of retraining the CNS to adapt to rapid changes in acceleration/deceleration.
So, in short, I do a heavy set (4-6 reps) AFAP, and imediately after do a explosive set, moving small weights fast? Would it be bad to use the same exercise for this, or do I need to switch?
Once again, I think that I misread your initial post, in thinking that you were looking to train for SAQ.(Speed/Agillity/Quickness)
As far as training slow twitch/fast twitch fibers in the same session, I've really only seen the two day take on this. Such as calf training...I've seen training two different days, for the different muscles involved.
Day 1
1. Seated single calf raise 4 Sets 12-20 Reps to failure
2. Cable dorsi-flexion 4 Sets 6-12 Reps to failure
3. Seated calf raise toes in 2 Sets 2-15 Reps to failure
Day 2
1. Standing single calf raise 4 Sets 6-9 Reps to failure
2. Donkey calf raise 4 Sets 6-9 Reps to failure
3. Machine calf toes-out 2 Sets 8-12 Reps to failure
I do want to train for SAQ, but not at the expense of gaining raw strength. I may be a little off though, since I try to do all of my exercises fast, not lower/pause/up like many suggests. Taking this into consideration, I'm more and more curious about trying what you suggest.
I also know of working a typical slow twitch muscle with high 100 rep step bombs. But my understanding of that method is to perform the 100 reps on a recovering muscle group, not on the main group that you are working. Where you are not going for a training style, but a hormone and in this case mitochondria effect within the fiber itself.
(please don't ask me to explain that one...because that sentence is all I understand...LOL)
I promise, I wont.
[LATE EDIT] Vince Gironda did advocate a 12,8,6,20 format, but that was not a rep format to follow on a continuous basis. That was to use in a case where your current training had gone stale. So something such as that rep sequence, would not be considered training slow and fast twitch muscle fibers at the same time. You've peaked my curiousity...so I'll probably see what I can find out about this. I've never had the need to train in such a fashion before, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a good method.
It's always nice to inspire somebody. I'm very hungry for knowledge myself, even though I tend to be picky about it when it comes to training, since there are so many different techniques that all have been proven and stuff.
I'll read post 2 or 3 times in the future before responding... :lol:
Why? I think you're seriously on to something, and I'm at least loving the feedback. I'll spend some time looking into it.

The fast twitch muscle fibers are the ones doing most of the work in an explosive movement, and in a max effort lift, even if the weight isn't moving that fast. If you are pushing as much(speed or mass) as you can, you are using fast twitch fibers.

Low rep training is where you develop explosiveness. Lifting sets of 3 to 5 at 85% to 100% intensity will develop limit strength. Explosive lifting will help develop your CNS to improve your RFD(rate of force development) But reps should be kept low so that you are working at full capicity. You could probably throw a medicine ball a lot of times, but only the first few(3-5 for most athletes) are going to be as fast as you can throw, then the speed will drop off, and you should stop.

Olympic lifting is great for developing speed and power. Power Cleans are one of the most common exercises you will see in a college athletic training room. Pulls are also a good option, They are basically a dynamic deadlift(the first part of a clean, but you don't have to catch the bar). These exercises work the extension of the ankles, knees, and hips in an explosive manner.

Performing an explosive exercise directly following a max strength exercies fo the same movement as Kino suggested is usually refered to as complex sets. They are often used for improving explosiveness. You can use the same exercise, if it can be performed both as a max strength and an explosive movement. Squats and sauat jupms work well. Bench press doesn't work quite as well because it is harder to do a ligh weight explosive bench press, most people don't like throwing the bar, but a medicine ball works great. There are many options for complex sets.

The fast twitch muscle fibers are the ones doing most of the work in an explosive movement, and in a max effort lift, even if the weight isn't moving that fast. If you are pushing as much(speed or mass) as you can, you are using fast twitch fibers.

Low rep training is where you develop explosiveness. Lifting sets of 3 to 5 at 85% to 100% intensity will develop limit strength. Explosive lifting will help develop your CNS to improve your RFD(rate of force development) But reps should be kept low so that you are working at full capicity. You could probably throw a medicine ball a lot of times, but only the first few(3-5 for most athletes) are going to be as fast as you can throw, then the speed will drop off, and you should stop.

Olympic lifting is great for developing speed and power. Power Cleans are one of the most common exercises you will see in a college athletic training room. Pulls are also a good option, They are basically a dynamic deadlift(the first part of a clean, but you don't have to catch the bar). These exercises work the extension of the ankles, knees, and hips in an explosive manner.

Performing an explosive exercise directly following a max strength exercies fo the same movement as Kino suggested is usually refered to as complex sets. They are often used for improving explosiveness. You can use the same exercise, if it can be performed both as a max strength and an explosive movement. Squats and sauat jupms work well. Bench press doesn't work quite as well because it is harder to do a ligh weight explosive bench press, most people don't like throwing the bar, but a medicine ball works great. There are many options for complex sets.
Thanks for the reply. I think I'm actually getting the hang of what you guys are saying now, and I'm mighty curious to give this sort of thing a try.