Hi everyone, first let me summarize the situation:

I am 27, 6’2”, about 219 lbs (23% bf according to mybodycomp.com). I have been on a first time cut since April this year, at which time I believe I was 240-245.

I have been keeping close watch on the macro’s with an average 40/40/20 c/p/f intake (I did realize sugar was still around 150gm daily and cut it to 40 average last month) and calorie intake (average 2190 – 5 small meals a day) for the last 3 months (last month adjusted cardio within 65% mhr after picking up a hrm).

I have a three day a week split lifting routine, and do cardio at least 30 min in the am (pre breakfast) about 4-5 times a week. I pretty much stick to this 7 days a week, but try to throw in cheat or carb up days (last cheat day I just about puked from the butter/oil coated food eating out, uck!). My job has me sitting for most of the 8-9 hour workday (go walk outside when I can).

Long story short, my measurements (with the exception of 2” gain on my chest) and weight have not changed (more than 1/8” or 2-3 lbs) over the last three months, period. This leads me to believe I am either at maintenance, need to drop more cals/up cardio, or change something in the diet.

Looking at my story above, does anyone have a thought about what can get this cut moving again? I am eager to start gaining! :)

After being on a caloric deficient diet for a long time your body starts producing chemicals that make the further loss of fat very difficult. If you're doing the same routine as before, even improving your BMI, and you have stopped losing fat then your body may be entering a starvation mode. The last thing you want to do is drop calories and up cardio. Your body should require more calories now just for maintenance than it did before. Fat doesn't need to be maintained but muscle does. Try incorporating the cheat DAY again. Every seven to ten days. The added caloric intake for these days shoud be roughly 1000 cals. It varies depending on the person. Some go with 500 cals. This will stop the body from producing the fat saving/storing chemicals, (doesn't need to with all those cals), and you're on your way again. My wife ran into this exact same problem. Just so you know our cheat day is usually something like eggs, bacon, sausage and french toast with butter and syrup. That's just for breakfast! A clean meal. Maybe taco bell for lunch. A clean mean. Then pizza or the like later on. Her fat LOSS immediately jumped back up to an average of 2lbs a week after being stalled for weeks. I like to tell her, "sometimes you have to eat to lose fat". Of course this is combined with cardio and exercise. Hope this helps.

Well, after a good hard look at the diet, I am going to increase my intake 500 for 2-3 days, then another 500 after that and stay there for 2 weeks. It should be interesting to see what happens...

i hate to do this to you after you have made a decision but i think your calories were about right. they may have actually been high. i am about you height and weight and i have been eating between 1600 and 1800 calories a day to lose weight and it has been working well for me. at 2200 i would still be losing weight just more slowly. maybe you could post what some of you meals look like. if you had the last few days on a spread sheet you could post that would be helpful. maybe its not so much how much you are eating but what you are eating. if you get to 3200 calories a day you really will most likely be in the bulking category.

I agree. It may be what you are eating..not how much.

Maybe you're carb sensative, I was atleast, only when I started a diet with 40/40/20 - protein/fat/CARBS ratio's I started to loose some good fat.

Try 3 days with low carb 2200 cals, and 1 day 2800 with 60% carbs, to loadup on carbs again.

because if I am eating this much and still losing, I am scared to start bulking!

I will get a typical day's meal up here later tonight, I know the problem lies there, but everyday I find something that contradicts what I discovered the day before..uugghh!

Thanks in advance for the help!

I finally downloaded John's spreadsheet, and plugged my last day at 2200 into it - :o I have been using DietPower to log my foods, etc...I now realize it is not so great as it seems to be. (I tried it as a diet manager for a week, and it kept dropping my cals 200 a day when I didn't loose a pound from the day before, I stopped when it was telling me I should be eating 1100 cals, should have known then). :d_frown:

Hi everyone, first let me summarize the situation:

I am 27, 6’2”, about 219 lbs (23% bf according to mybodycomp.com). I have been on a first time cut since April this year, at which time I believe I was 240-245.

I have been keeping close watch on the macro’s with an average 40/40/20 c/p/f intake (I did realize sugar was still around 150gm daily and cut it to 40 average last month) and calorie intake (average 2190 – 5 small meals a day) for the last 3 months (last month adjusted cardio within 65% mhr after picking up a hrm).

I have a three day a week split lifting routine, and do cardio at least 30 min in the am (pre breakfast) about 4-5 times a week. I pretty much stick to this 7 days a week, but try to throw in cheat or carb up days (last cheat day I just about puked from the butter/oil coated food eating out, uck!). My job has me sitting for most of the 8-9 hour workday (go walk outside when I can).

Long story short, my measurements (with the exception of 2” gain on my chest) and weight have not changed (more than 1/8” or 2-3 lbs) over the last three months, period. This leads me to believe I am either at maintenance, need to drop more cals/up cardio, or change something in the diet.

Looking at my story above, does anyone have a thought about what can get this cut moving again? I am eager to start gaining! :)

Hey cabinboy,

I believe the problem lies within your cardio routine, I don't believe that 30 minutes is nearly enough to burn a significant amount of fat as your body does not even begin to mobilize the fat stores until at least 20-30 minutes into your cardio session. I would say that you need to increase the duration of your cardio to at least 45 min - 60min a day. Sometimes I go even longer than that.

I would also advise cutting down on your carbs to about 30% and upping your protein to 40%. Make sure that all of the carbs you are consuming are in the beginning part of your day prior to cardio are low gi, and complex (Sweet potatoes, Green beans, Broccoli, Cauliflower, etc). The key is manipulating insulin.

There are lots of resources online that will describe this much further in-depth if you do a google search.

I would also recommend if you have enough self control and determination, replacing your "cheat days" with "carb up" days.

Ingest an increased amount of low gi, complex carbs rather than slimy, greasy foods. Have whole wheat pasta for dinner, or make a sandwich on whole wheat bread. Try to stay away from eating fats and carbs simultaneously, as the insulin response will cause you to store fat up to an hour after the ingestion of a high GI food.

Hope all this helps.

Hi there, I think I'm having the same problem here, I've been on a caloric resticting diet for about 6 months, 2 months ago I eat everything i like and start cutting last month, the result was great but now I'm starting to hold on fat again... Any nutritional advice? I do cheat day once a week.

Well, I had about 2800 cals yesterday (after cardio burn) and gotta say, I felt like the Hulk last night and had an awesome lift! Hence the excitement to start bulking, it was great...

I am going back to my normal food sched (around 2190) and will log for a couple days, then post here for comments, as I realize from all your great replies that I just don't quite understand how everything works yet.

I just started 65% hr cardio in the am on an empty stomach last week, when I picked up a hrm. Before that I was actually doing 30-35 min at what turned out to be about 90-100% mhr. So I am working up to more time with the slooowww cardio.

I do have to add that until a couple weeks ago, I spent the summer mountain biking from 10-15 miles everyday - along with cardio in the am and lifting...so diet really has to be the issue, I didn't loose a thing all summer. :o

My take on this is that you have to kick your metabolism in the groin. Hard.

If DietPower tells you that 2200kcal is good for cutting, then I'd increase to 3000-3200 for three days and then go back to 2200k cal. I've done that every time my fat loss stops and it works every single time. My cutting diet is about 2800 k cal, so I eat like 3800-4000 k cal on those days :eat:

Your sixpack is made in the kitchen. Plain and simple.

you didnt say that you were using dietpower from the start. i also use dietpower and trust me its a good program. for your first week on dietpower you should be setting it to maintain your weight so the program can "learn" your metabolism. then create a new diet based on your goals after that week. if you start right off with a diet you will get some crazy numbers that will eventually level out but in the mean time Dietpower will bring up those crazy numbers. i made the same mistake too. it will make a huge difference in the numbers the program gives you. make sure you weigh yourself under the same circumstances every time too. i also dont weigh myself daily and put it into the program. the program cant account for water fluctuations that you will see on a daily basis. once a week will be fine.

Ok, so recomendations so far:

- Diet Power is effective, but start with a maintenace goal for a week first, then set to a loose goal. Does DP loose what it has learned about metabo when you change goals?

- My metabo sucks at the moment, and I need to ramp it up. Eating big for 3 days to a week may help.

- I need to up my cardio to at least 45 min per session. Should I do cardio like this everyday, even on lift days? And/Or does my situation sound like HIT would now be a better benefit?

Two big ones for me in this mystery - How long should I stick with a routine before deciding that it is not producing the results I am after and to change it up (maybe I have been changing to often) AND figuring out a macro nutrient setup that works (and isn't all chicken breasts and protein powder).

I want to keep this progress up as a discussion, because this seems to be a popluar problem around the board - maybe details of my methods to finding a solution will be helpful for everyone. Thanks again!! :D

DP remembers everything.

Also check this out: http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=5937

- Diet Power is effective, but start with a maintenace goal for a week first, then set to a loose goal. Does DP loose what it has learned about metabo when you change goals?

when making a new diet click the button that says assume i am a new user.

My metabo sucks at the moment, and I need to ramp it up. Eating big for 3 days to a week may help.

maintaining for a week should help

I need to up my cardio to at least 45 min per session. Should I do cardio like this everyday, even on lift days? And/Or does my situation sound like HIT would now be a better benefit?

thats a personal decision. try one for a couple weeks and see how it goes. if you are not satisfied with the results try the other. i would personally do 30-45 minutes of steady cardio in a fasted state but thats just me.

Two big ones for me in this mystery - How long should I stick with a routine before deciding that it is not producing the results I am after and to change it up (maybe I have been changing to often) AND figuring out a macro nutrient setup that works (and isn't all chicken breasts and protein powder).

you could change your routine every week if you wanted to. just be sure to change it occasionally. my macros usually break down to about 20% fat 30% protein 50% carbs. sometimes i am not even close to that so again thats a personal decision. a good rule is to get one gram of protein per pound of body weight and keep the fats at 20% filling in the rest with good carbs. you can adjust this anytime.

:gl:

Ok, as promised, here is today's foods, which is about an average of what I have been (it's a bit lower today as it's a day off from wo) - with note that I reset DietPower to maintain and will stay there for a week, then head back down. I think I can see where improvements can be made (sugar for sure), but what I don't understand yet is good carbs/bad carbs, carb/fat timing, and foods that might be better than others. I will keep searching and learning, but any help is greatly accepted! :D


8:00 AM - Cal total:568 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
Fruit smoothie w/ whey --- 278 / 2.6 / 0.7 / 42.3 / 35 / 25
1 cup Uncle Sam Cereal --- 190 / 5 / .5 / 38 / .5 / 7
1 cup Fat free milk --- 80 / 0 / 0 /11 / 11/ 8
One a Day vit supplement --- 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
1 Fish oil soft gell --- 10 / 1 / .5 / 0 / 0 / .5
1 Flax seed oil soft gell --- 10 / 1 / .5 / 0 / 0 / 0
2 vit E soft gell --- 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Meal Totals --- 568 / 9.6 / 2.2 / 93.5 / 46.5 / 40.5

10:00 AM - Cal total:12 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
Tall Americano, no sug/crm --- 12 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
Meal Totals --- 12/ 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1

12:00 PM - Cal total:484 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
1 pbj sandwhich, nat PB --- 484 /19 / 2.5 / 20 / 9 /16
Meal Totals --- 484/ 19 / 2.5 / 20 / 9 / 16

2:30 PM - Cal total:256 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
Tuna Salad on Wheat Pita --- 256 / 3.5 / 1 / 24 / 2 / 31
Meal Totals --- 256 / 3.5 / 1 / 24 / 2 / 31

4:30 PM - Cal total:250 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
PB Cliff Bar --- 250 / 6 / 1.5 / 40 / 18 / 12
Meal Totals --- 250 / 6 / 1.5 / 40 / 18 / 12

6:00 PM - Cal total:81 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
1 Apple --- 81 / .5 / .1 / 21 / 18 / .3
Meal Totals --- 81 / .5 / .1 / 21 / 18 / .3

7:45 PM - Cal total:730 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
4 oz Mahi Tuna Steak, grilled --- 50 / .5 / 0 / .5 / 0 / 10
8 oz Alaskan Cod, grilled --- 420 / 3.2 / .4 / 0 / 0 / 92
1 cup brown rice --- 218 / 1.7 / .3 / 44 / 1 / 5
6 oz green beans, steamed --- 42 / 1 / 0 / 10 / 0 / 2.5
Meal Totals --- 730/ 6.4 / 10.7 / 44.5 / 1 / 110.5

10:00 PM - Cal total:269 --- Cal/Fat/SatFat/Carb/Sugar/Protien
1 bananna --- 149 / .7 / .2 / 37 / 1 / 2
1 srv SportPharma whey shake --- 120 / 2.5 / 1 / 4 / 3 / 22
Meal Totals --- 269 / 3.2 / 1.2 / 41 / 4 / 24

Days Total Cal: 2650
Percentages (carb/prot/fat): 48%/35%/16%

Quickie here..

I am taking fish and flax oil (see menu above) - how should I figure these into my fat intake for the day? They really don't have much of a calorie count - do they just fall into a general fat category? :confused:

make a custom food with dietpower using whatever it says on the label per serving. you might already be getting enough EFAs with your typical days diet as it is. how do your fats break down without the supps.

There's no spot for "fish oil" in the nut input...just fat, sat fat, etc... typical fats are like the menu above, if that makes any sense..

fish oil is just a way off getting fats. under quick food tab plug in total fat and break down the saturated, polunsatureated, and monounsaturated. also put in any other nutrients for that particular supplement. then just add it to the dictionary so you can use it over and over.

i quickly scanned your diet and quicly added up the grams of sugar you are getting daily. you get almost 100 grams. thats very high. im going to put my diet for today and yesterday in your journal. its not perfect but maybe you can get ideas on how to decrease your sugars.

Great, any guidence helps!

I did cut out sugars last week, down to around 40-50 for the day, what is a suggested amount for cutting?

i know that dietpower wants me to stay under 60g sugar a day so i aim for that.

where do I see in DP the recomendations it makes for your daily intake of macros? The bar chart? or is there a place where it says for example "Rec Daily Sugar: 60gm"..?

it doesnt recomend macros. across from the food log tab click the nutrient summaru tab. it will break down vitamins minerals macros etc. for me to get 100% RDA in sugar i need x number of grams.

Think I've got the DP under control now - sorry to make this thread into a DP tutorial.

On a good note, the scale this am told me 217 - something is working! (I haven't been able to break past 218 since I started).

Thanks again! :claphigh:

Think I've got the DP under control now - sorry to make this thread into a DP tutorial.

actually a DP tutorial thread would be dead useful. i've had it installed a few weeks, but finally got it running from yesterday, entering new foods is a total pain sometimes but having the f/p/c piechart is useful. i used to be a math geek, but a lot of the whole diet stuff is so over my head, hopefully this'll help me :D

shame its so americanised, when i'm british, but hopefully i can work out everything different. Water, Municipal is tap water yeah?! not a word we tend to use here much! but if anyone who knows the program well could start a thread, i know i'd be really greatful as i'm sure i have a ton of questions to ask :)

I know what you mean pho..I have decided to not be such a numbers whore - and just enjoy life. :)

One thing I wish DP would do is let you say what macro ratio you want to follow, and then suggest day menus from the database of foods it has/you have entered.

Guess that would make it too easy...

One thing I wish DP would do is let you say what macro ratio you want to follow, and then suggest day menus from the database of foods it has/you have entered.

Guess that would make it too easy...

things just got easier. under the option tab at the top( i think i dont have it in front of me) click on adjust PDAs. you can adjust all your macros and even vitamins, minerals, fiber etc. if you really wanted to. dont worry about playing with it, there is a reset to defaults button at the bottom of the screen.

yeah, i just found that myself, and entered 40p/40c/20f then adjusted it slightly to allow a lil bit of michelob ultra/coors light every now and then ;)

It would also be nice if it allowed you to enter food for the following day AND see the nut summary for that day. You can enter ahead of time, but it won't show you the possible percentages..it would help with planning if it did.

Cabinboy
If your senitive about carbs,,the 40/40/20 might not work well for you..
I'm senitive to carbs so I'm trying the CKD diet , It's a BBB cutting type diet.. Low - carb.. more info..http://www.c-k-d.com/forums/

If your cutting why are you eating dairy, breads, sports bars, peanut butter etc??

because it's all about learning..

After a good week at maintainence, resetting DP, and trying to learn the most I can to develop a better cutting diet, I am starting anew. I will still most likely have to stay in the 2200 cals range for cutting...gotta get those in somewhere...with exercise. I will be dropping the diary for the most part, only a yougut in my post lift shake. And, yes, no more Clif bars, and bread limited to sprouted grain whole wheat, hopefully no more than a slice a day. The pb is natural, unsalted, and in small amounts. Mostly chicken, fish, beef, veggies, and brown rice for me.

I am learning about timing - that is where my next step takes me in this whole game.