I got this idea from someone who is a member of this community awhile back. I just wanted to see what others thought about it. I normally have eggs, bacon, and sausage after morning cardio. I'm going to begin HIIT tomorrow though so I can speed my metabolism. I'm not sure how though, since I work out 6 days a week and I know you shouldn't do weight training and HIIT on the same day...does anyone have a suggestion or two?

Mick

Presumably this would be recommended in an effort to dissuade the body from using food calories, instead of fat calories post-carb, to aid with fat burning.

Whether this is generally a good idea or not, it's definitely _not_ if your cardio is morning cardio. The last thing you need is to wake up hungry, do cardio, and then burn away muscle mass for an additional 3 hours.

i would definitely get some carbs in directly after hiit

the argument is that if you consume carbs after cardio, you'll be burning carbs instead of fat...is this not correct?

if you dont consume carbs after hiit your body could switch to burning muscle due to depleted glycogen

thats not a problem with "slow" cardio

So, I need to have carbs after HIIT but not after slow cardio? What about doing HIIT on the same day as weight training?

So, I need to have carbs after HIIT but not after slow cardio? What about doing HIIT on the same day as weight training?


hm. what about it? thats fine. i do cardio first thing in the morning and then again in the evening. at least 7-8 hours apart is what is recommended.

any activity that keeps your heart rate above 75-85% for prolonged amounts of times... anything intense.... have some fast acting carb after.
those are my thoughts on the subject.

so like, a dextrose + whey shake


thats why having carbs after "slow" cardio isnt necessary, it is below 75% (most of the time) therefore you arent depleting glycogen and dont need carbs

I normally have eggs, bacon, and sausage after morning cardio.


Why are you even bothering to waste your time? With a breakfast like that, you might as well forget all the exercise.

I'm obviosuly exaggurating, but I think you get the point...


Carbs after HIIT is fine. When I used to do HIIT, I'd wait about 45-60 mins and then eat my complex carb/protein meal.

eggs are a good thing to have after cardio

Why are you even bothering to waste your time? With a breakfast like that, you might as well forget all the exercise.

I'm obviosuly exaggurating, but I think you get the point...


Carbs after HIIT is fine. When I used to do HIIT, I'd wait about 45-60 mins and then eat my complex carb/protein meal.

why is this not a good breakfast? The bacon is turkey bacon, the sausage is veggie sausage, and the eggs are simply eggs...

if you dont consume carbs after hiit your body could switch to burning muscle due to depleted glycogen

thats not a problem with "slow" cardio

Wrong, if you don't consume PROTEIN, your body will turn to its own PROTEIN stores (muscle). If you have carbs, this will not prevent your body from consuming your own muscle if you are already in a catabolic state.

The only macro-nutrient your body actively needs in large quantities is protein (I'm simplifying things a bit). This is because your body is composed of muscle tissue (smooth and skeletal) that is constantly moving through the cellular cycle of growth, reproduction, and death. In this process, essential amino acids (protein) are required, but the body cannot supply them internally, so they must be consumed. In any activity, such as weight traiining or cardio, this cycle of 'protein consumption' continues, sometime accelerating. If you don't have enough protein in your blood stream to feed this process, your smooth muscles take nutrient priority, and your skeletal muscles provide the protein (IIRC, no linkage for the link nazi's).

Because protein is such a terrible energy-source (it requires something like 30% of the energy stored in the protein just to convert it to glycogen, again no link for the link nazi's), your body turns to protein only as a last resort. In low-intensity cardio, because you don't leave the aerobic threshold, once your body runs out of carbohydrates to replenish it's glycogen stores, it can then utilize it's fat stores to feed it's glycogen stores. Fat stores take much more time than carbohydrates to convert to glycogen, but because low-intensity cardio is within the aerobic threshold (fat burning threshold, per se), your body is able to exclusively use fat stores, and perhaps a minimal amount of protiein if the intensity is too high, to feed your muscles and fuel your cardio.

In the case of HIIT, because the intensity is so high, your body moves above the aerobic threshold and into the anaerobic threshold. Anaerobic exercises depend more on carbohydrate stores, as they are much more demanding in terms of glycogen. As your carbohydrate stores deplenish, your body turns to your fat stores to fill in the gaps in your glycogen requirement. However, there is a limit to how fast your body can mobilize fat stores for conversion to glycogen, and so your body must fill this new gap in the glycogen supply by turing to protein stores as a last resort. And so, when you do HIIT, your body increases it's protein consumption.

Now, to answer the OP's question about whether he should weight till 3 hours after HIIT to eat, the answer is no. Eat some protein 1 hour before HIIT ideally, and eat a small meal (<300 kcal, pref low-fat) immediately after. Beyond that, resume your regular eating schedule.

Hope all that has helped someone, I think I'll copy that and save it for later questions.

That was a great read. Specifically, my ? was should I not consume carbs for three hours after a normal 45min. cardio session on a stationary bike? I eat immediately after morning cardio, the breakfast I mentioned. But I do work out first and then do cardio.

Mick

why is this not a good breakfast? The bacon is turkey bacon, the sausage is veggie sausage, and the eggs are simply eggs...

Ahh... you neglected to mention those facts. Regular sausage and bacon is terrible for you. Full of saturated fat. What you're having isn't too bad at all. I would add some carbs in there however.

god this shit gets too confusing
just exercise and you will get results
my brain is going to explode

just exercise and you will get results

Nah, you can exercise all you want. If you eat like shit then you're NOT going to see results; or at least the ones you are hoping for...

actually, I think it's fascinating. It just feels like I my stomach should already be gone. I know I started cardio only a month and half ago but my diet is good as far as I know and I work out everyday except for Sunday.

I got this idea from someone who is a member of this community awhile back. I just wanted to see what others thought about it. I normally have eggs, bacon, and sausage after morning cardio. I'm going to begin HIIT tomorrow though so I can speed my metabolism. I'm not sure how though, since I work out 6 days a week and I know you shouldn't do weight training and HIIT on the same day...does anyone have a suggestion or two?


Mick's following the fat burning, post cardio meal that a certain trainer on this board (I assume) would most likely advocate. SO after asking a question involving a different type of cardio (HIIT), at a later time of day, for a completely different purpose (boost metabolism) he asked about what to eat after that type of cardio.

Mick explained he had a high fat/high protein meal after his morning cardio. This was all understood, then someone said...

What you're having isn't too bad at all. I would add some carbs in there however.

god this shit gets too confusing
just exercise and you will get results
my brain is going to explode

See why people get confused?

Basically, even though I have read about it elsewhere on this board, ***Here is exactly what a person should do to MAXIMIZE Fat-Loss, if that is one of their primary goals.***


1) Cardio should be done in a fasted state first thing in the morning. If you still want to lift weights, lift on a day without cardio, or do the weight training 8 hours after morning cardio.

2)It should be 45 minutes in duration at 60-70% of your Max Heart Rate

3) If you put carbs in your body after low-intensity cardio, when your goal is to shed bodyfat, you will be shooting yourself in the foot. Why would you put in the time to do all this cardio, then kill your progress because you couldn't fix your meal plan to avoid carbs for 3 hours after low-intensity cardio. So don't do it.

Or else...

4)The reason you do low-intensity cardio is to eventually get your bodyfat low enough to have visible ab development. If you keep putting carbs in your body after low-intensity cardio you will just continue spinning your wheels longer than you need to, so either experiment with multiple meal plans until you find something that works for you... OR use something that has been proven to work.

Thus the main point to drill home is this:If your goal is to get your body fat VERY LOW, and it is the only reason you are doing fasted-state morning cardio, it would benefit you to not purposely injest carbs for a 3 hour period after low-intensity cardio.

This is coming from someone who has done nothing but read the information on these boards, and has recognized how some people achieved such great fat loss results. If I'm wrong, then I'd love to be told otherwise, but I'm pretty sure that is nearly the exact formula.

First of all, he asked about HIIT PWO nutrition. If he wishes to do HIIT in the A.M. fasted, then it's his choice. He may suffer muscle loss, but many do it. I cannot see waiting 3 hours for carbs after HIIT. Thus, I insisted he add them into his PWO meal. I personally used to eat 1 hour after my HIIT when I did it. I no longer do...

3) If you put carbs in your body after low-intensity cardio, when your goal is to shed bodyfat, you will be shooting yourself in the foot. Why would you put in the time to do all this cardio, then kill your progress because you couldn't fix your meal plan to avoid carbs for 3 hours after low-intensity cardio. So don't do it.

There is no way you HAVE to wait 3 hours. I've seen more than enough people get extremely cut up and not wait more than an hour to eat carbs after cardio. You are free to disagree, but I think saying you MUST wait 3 hours to ingest carbs is a bit overkill.

That was a great read. Specifically, my ? was should I not consume carbs for three hours after a normal 45min. cardio session on a stationary bike? I eat immediately after morning cardio, the breakfast I mentioned. But I do work out first and then do cardio.

Mick

Really, there's no reason not to, especially if you plan to work out (weights) within that three hour period, you'll need carbs to fuel workout. But as far as whether you SHOULD eat carbs within those three hours, probably not for the best fat-loss results. But there's really no point in imposing time restrictions on when you have carbs. If you feel like having some, have some, but don't have excessive amounts. I like to have a piece of fruit after a workout, after cardio, whenever, and though a piece of fruit is high in carbs, one nectarine only has 70 kcal in it, so I'll burn that off just off my BMR in an hour, so no need to worry.

POINT: My point is, it's best if you don't have carbs, or have only a little carbs, but the fact is that the point of the cardio session was to burn bulk calories, which was accomplished, do don't worry about carbs afterwards, so long as you did the cardio in a fasted/glycogen depleted state. If you're that concerned about how much fat you're burning the rest of the day, the best bet is a low-carb, low-fat diet. Just be warned that these diets are difficult to maintain for any more than 2 weeks at a time.

ok. Thanks to everyone.
Apparently I've been screwing up by working out on an empty stomach and then immediately doing slow cardio for 45 min. Then eating a no carb breask fast. I'm changing my cardio to HIIT starting today so I'll begin to have carbs after cardio.

How does this sound....

having a protien shake then lifting first thing in the morning. How long should I wait to do HIIT?

You really are helping. These questions may seem to be tedious but bare in mind, my routine is getting a much needed shake up...THANK YOU. :)

How does this sound....

having a protien shake then lifting first thing in the morning. How long should I wait to do HIIT?Hey Mick,

I would just add, make sure your pre-workout shake contains some good carbs as well, to fuel you through your workout.

I'd wait as long as possible after your morning workout (>7-8 hours) to do your HIIT. How many days a week will you be doing both? Ideally you'd be doing 3-4 days of lifting, and 3 (maybe 4) days of HIIT, with only one overlap day where you do both. (JMO, as I know I couldn't handle more than that.)

:gl:

Egg-whites - not whole eggs, and a couple of strips of bacon are fine for breakfast following a fasted-state cardio session. That's basically an all-protein breakfast with a little fat through natural food sources and is in no way detrimental to you provided it's factored into your macronutrient ratios for the day. Avoiding carbs for the first couple of hours post-cardio is suggested to prevent the body from going to those ingested carbs for energy rather than fat stores. It helps teach the body that fat is its preferred food source at this time - and it'll get used to it.

I made it from 13% to 11% in just two weeks using a similar idea for the early portion of my day. Unfortunately, as my sig tells, recent events and the hurricane-induced inability to follow my diet set me back a little. I'll get back where I was in a few weeks.

If you do HIIT, yes, you need a good protein source and some carbohydrates PWO to replenish muscle glycogen and prevent catabolism.

Hey Danny. I've been wondering about you as I've not seen you on the forums in some time. I've started something new today. I've completely revamped my routine :eek:

I've chosen to adopt John's first cutting phase program as far as lifting and cardio. BUT, I see that he was only working each muscle group once a week. I have been working each twice a week, which I prefer. But at the same time, he's obviously done something right!

what would you suggest on this?

Mick,

Yeah, it's been a weird summer for me. I won't go into details, but I'm essentially just getting back into the gym after 2+ months off, so I feel ready to start posting on the JSF forums again. :)

So when you say you're adopting John's initial cutting program, does that mean you're doing fasted-state HIIT 6-7 mornings a week? I guess I'm confused, b/c earlier in this thread you mentioned lifting in the mornings and HIITing later in the day. Maybe you could list out your daily routine/split?

Regarding lifting, working each muscle group once a week should be plenty, especially if you're using the big compound lifts. I can't imagine doing deads or squats more than once a week. A solid 4-day split would be fine... But if you're seeing results working everything twice a week, I'd say press on!

Well, I'm not doing MAX-OT. If I would gain more muscle by working them once a week rather than two, obviously that's what I would do.

As far as the HIIT, I'll work out first thing in the morning after having a shake and the several hours later I'll do HIIT. So, no, I would not be in a fasted state.

So does this mean I really just need a high protein low carb meal after my cardio if I am doing low intensity (65-75%)?? Man this really is confusing. I do cardio in the morning and wait 40 minutes until I eat, At this meal shoul I have a high protein, low carb meal? This is my question?

pretty much. As I understand it...if you have carbs after slow cardio, you body burns the carbs first and then fat.

Mick

actually, I think it's fascinating. It just feels like I my stomach should already be gone. I know I started cardio only a month and half ago but my diet is good as far as I know and I work out everyday except for Sunday.

Patience my friend, patience. Good things will come in due time.