Hey whatsup guys...I've been PMing people and doing a lot of research for a while now regarding this question but I've gotten no real answer--a lot contradictions...

in creating a diet to accompany my workout (m,t,th,f after work) and cardio (m,t,th,f,s--45 mins on elliptical, 65-75% mhr) routine for my cutting phase i've learned some new things:

1.DONT mix carbs and fats in your meals
2.pro/fat immediately after workouts
3.pro/carb about 45 mins after workouts
4.dex and malto (carbs) should accompany your postworkout shake and should be ingested immediately after workout

now I have some questions...

1.if the dex/malto and protein (whey isolate shake) combination is considered "pro/carb", why should it be ingested immediately after workout instead of 45 mins later?
2.what kind of shake (and how soon) should i drink after cardio? after lifting?
3.finally, in these shakes, what should be the proportion of dex/malto/protein? and how many grams of each should i down (ie 25g malto, 25g dex, 25g pro)?

thanks for all of your help...please keep in mind that i'm attempting to cut up...thanks guys...very much appreciated....

1.DONT mix carbs and fats in your meals
2.pro/fat immediately after workouts
3.pro/carb about 45 mins after workouts
4.dex and malto (carbs) should accompany your postworkout shake and should be ingested immediately after workout

now I have some questions...

1.if the dex/malto and protein (whey isolate shake) combination is considered "pro/carb", why should it be ingested immediately after workout instead of 45 mins later?
2.what kind of shake (and how soon) should i drink after cardio? after lifting?
3.finally, in these shakes, what should be the proportion of dex/malto/protein? and how many grams of each should i down (ie 25g malto, 25g dex, 25g pro)?

Well, I think that the point 2. above is a bit off, can't imagine why anyone would have given you that kind of information... :confused: You should definitely have a pro/carb shake after the workout. And then the answer to question 1. becomes obvious. See e.g. this link (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine03/dextrose.htm).

2. As soon as possible after the workout. I usually get 50% of the shake immediately before hitting the shower and then the rest about 15-20 minutes later.

3. The 25g+25g+25g sounds pretty good. I would do 25g malto + 25g dex and 30g of protein. Ive seen a 2:1 ratio mentioned in many places, so there you would have 50g of carbs and 25g of prot.

Well, I think that the point 2. above is a bit off, can't imagine why anyone would have given you that kind of information... :confused: You should definitely have a pro/carb shake after the workout. And then the answer to question 1. becomes obvious. See e.g. this link (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine03/dextrose.htm).

2. As soon as possible after the workout. I usually get 50% of the shake immediately before hitting the shower and then the rest about 15-20 minutes later.

3. The 25g+25g+25g sounds pretty good. I would do 25g malto + 25g dex and 30g of protein. Ive seen a 2:1 ratio mentioned in many places, so there you would have 50g of carbs and 25g of prot.

...hey thanks petri...quick question...i noticed that dex and malto are basically sugars...though i am currently very healthy, i have a family history of high blood pressure and diabetes...should i hesitate when using dex and malto or even eating a lot of fruits and dairy? (im not a fan of sugar, so other than the malto and dex, fruit, and milk, thats pretty much my sugar intake for the day...let me know what you guys think...thanks

Just like every nutritional component, sugar is necessary. Carbs are sugars. They may be broken down from a starch or you may jsut be ingesting pure sugar, but carbs are sugars. While some people are huge fans of a no carb, the best idea is get a balance and operate on a lower, safe carb regiment. I would go with petri's recommendation. Also, you will see some posts here in there about what types of protein to eat when. This is a big deal if you want to be operating at your most optimal level (stole the optimization from PeteBDawg). Most use a whey early in teh day and PWO but I have read a good deal of information about using milk protein (casein) for your last meal of the day because it is slow digesting and will 1) make sure you have protein all through your sleep so you don't go catabolic, and 2) make sure you still have some in you in the am for morning cardio so you don't go catabolic. If anyone has more info on casein let me know. Good luck man.

...hey thanks petri...quick question...i noticed that dex and malto are basically sugars...though i am currently very healthy, i have a family history of high blood pressure and diabetes...should i hesitate when using dex and malto or even eating a lot of fruits and dairy? (im not a fan of sugar, so other than the malto and dex, fruit, and milk, thats pretty much my sugar intake for the day...let me know what you guys think...thanks

Yeah, I know what you mean, that is my burden as well... :d_frown: Both my parents eat medication for high blood pressure and my father has type-2 diabetes.

I wouldn't hesitate using dex + malto in the PWO shake. However, I do keep track of my calories daily and try to split the intake of cals from prot:carb:fat in 43:37:20 ratio. This means that I will fit the carbs from the PWO shake into those figures. In other words, if I have a gym day then I make sure that I cut out some carbs from some other meal to cover the increased carbs from the PWO shake.

It's very important that you get fast carbs from the PWO shake, even if those were the only carbs you get during the day. Otherwise your muscles will suffer badly after the workout. Basically if you don't get carbs after a workout, you end up being worse after the workout than you would have been without the whole workout!

Yeah, I know what you mean, that is my burden as well... :d_frown: Both my parents eat medication for high blood pressure and my father has type-2 diabetes.

I wouldn't hesitate using dex + malto in the PWO shake. However, I do keep track of my calories daily and try to split the intake of cals from prot:carb:fat in 43:37:20 ratio. This means that I will fit the carbs from the PWO shake into those figures. In other words, if I have a gym day then I make sure that I cut out some carbs from some other meal to cover the increased carbs from the PWO shake.

It's very important that you get fast carbs from the PWO shake, even if those were the only carbs you get during the day. Otherwise your muscles will suffer badly after the workout. Basically if you don't get carbs after a workout, you end up being worse after the workout than you would have been without the whole workout!

hey petri, thanks...its nice to see someone in the same position as me, family history-wise, and to see that theyre still able to accomplish what they need to accomplish...thanks to rich, also in all your help...man, now you've got me reading up on casein, and its so much info (i'll let you know what i come up with :tu:)...but now i have another question...kinda off topic, kinda not...

regarding the not eating fats w/carbs, i've discovered that one of my favorite snacks now are walnuts and raisins...because of the fact that my fats consumption is pretty low during the course of the day, that snack works into my macros (20% fats, most importantly)...i just have a quick question, though...because walnuts are fats mostly, and raisins are carbs, should i separate the two and just eat one as a snack? im afraid of the answer but im ready nonetheless :db: ...thanks guys...

regarding the not eating fats w/carbs, i've discovered that one of my favorite snacks now are walnuts and raisins...because of the fact that my fats consumption is pretty low during the course of the day, that snack works into my macros (20% fats, most importantly)...i just have a quick question, though...because walnuts are fats mostly, and raisins are carbs, should i separate the two and just eat one as a snack? im afraid of the answer but im ready nonetheless :db: ...thanks guys...
Well, can't speak of experience as I don't eat raisins or walnuts that often, but I suppose you could separate them just because of the basic principle for not combining carbs + fats.

Then again, it's pretty hard to totally avoid mixing carbs with fats anyway, e.g. a steak + rice + veggies will contain fats in the steak. I think you could eat much worse things than walnuts and raisins so if they satisfy your cravings and you fit them into your daily nutrients, I can't see much harm in eating them together.

I don't think it is that big a deal in the overall diet...

Well, can't speak of experience as I don't eat raisins or walnuts that often, but I suppose you could separate them just because of the basic principle for not combining carbs + fats.

Then again, it's pretty hard to totally avoid mixing carbs with fats anyway, e.g. a steak + rice + veggies will contain fats in the steak. I think you could eat much worse things than walnuts and raisins so if they satisfy your cravings and you fit them into your daily nutrients, I can't see much harm in eating them together.

I don't think it is that big a deal in the overall diet...

i hear ya, petri...but i think i'll just separate them, just to make sure im taking as much advantage of my cutting diet as possible...thanks for your help :tu:

For the night time snack to hold you over till morning I've been eating Cottage Cheese..like a 1/2-1/3 cup..