If you loose weight by providing a caloric defecit while doing cardio and gain muscle by upping your protein intake and calories. Is it possible to bulk and cut by say taking 500 less calories daily than your supposed to but having 1.5 g of protein per bf.

For example. Today

I had 1500 calories ( I weigh about 195)
and had 2 meal replacements, turkey, tuna, and chicken. My total protein intake was almost 275 g.s

gain muscle by upping your protein intake and calories.

What exercise did you do to gain muscle? Just upping protein doesn't build muscle. Weight training is the most effective means of building muscle.

bump to RTE

I don't think you can cut and bulk quite like what you're thinking, but its possible to gain some degree of LBM and simultaneously lose fat...the problem is that the two are VERY difficult to do at the same time. Its certainly possible depending on your lifting routine to gain some muscle mass...but with a bulk you gain much more than you could on a cutting cycle. Anyone else want to back me up on this?

Friend, you ain't gonna bulk on 1500.
Cut to your goal, then do a bulk if you wish. Do one or the other with 100% effort, save yourself the frustration of working against mother nature.
Good Luck.

You can do both but you have to balance things out carefully. But ofcourse you wont gain as much lbm as if you were bulking, this is due to the fact that losing fat and gainning muscle are two oposite processes called catabolism and anabolism.

If you want to lose fat and build muscle, don't go on a diet-induced calorie deficit but rather an exercise-induced one.

Eat at maintainence levels, get lots of protein, have a good weight-training regime going (such as Max-OT), and do cardio.

The best thing to do is to cut then bulk and repeat. Like someone posted above to try to do both is going against how your body naturally works. You can make it happen but it's difficult.

I'm on this plan where I am cutting BF but I'm working out real hard too and in the last month. My arms went from a 14.5 to a 14 and up to 15 in inches. My chest went from a 42 down to a 39 and now its up to 39.5 but i'm still loosing bf.

I think I"m actually cutting down and putting on serious LBM

It can be done (when I am in a cut fase, I usually gain a little muscle), but it is not the most efficient way. Doing a bulk-, and then a cut fase, is much more efficient, but lots of people get affraid when they begin a cut fase. They cut, for one week, and because they are affraid to lose muscle they decide to stop cutting, and begin to bulk again. You have to decide that you are going to cut for (instance) 2 months. When you've decided this, you don't look back, you keep cutting. The only thing you can do is change the way you are cutting, you can change the cardio, weight lifting ratio, or change your food intake, but that's it. I've talked here about cutting, but the same thing goes for bulking.

Remember, when cutting some of the fat you burn is marbalized in your muscles. This can give the feeling that you are severly increasing lean mass b/c you muscles are filling out. Although some amount of lean mass is possible the rate in which a lot of people cut (2 lbs a week) is not ideal for muscle gain. Sure everyone is different and some gain more that others, but always do what you can to keep what you have and any gains are gravy. If gaining muscle is more important then really consider at what rate you are willing to lose the fat.

Although some amount of lean mass is possible the rate in which a lot of people cut (2 lbs a week) is not ideal for muscle gain.

I agree. If you have a high BF I think you can do both, but not at 1500 cal at your weight and not at 500 cal/day deficit or 2 lbs a week (which is over 1000 cal/day deficit). Both bulking and cutting will be comprimised. Sometimes for steady gains and changes in eating habbits, howevere, it may not be a bad idea to start with. My guess is that as you get closer to your goals you will have to cut then bulk.

So, does that mean I shouldn't bother lifting weights while I'm trying to lose weight? It's just a waste of time?

Just my 20c: I'm doing both and don't see any problem with it. Of course I don't see the weight dropping as fast as it could I'd just concentrate on cutting. But bf% is then more approriate measurement of progress than weight anyway.

I'm also counting on the growing muscles utilizing more energy and thus helping me in cutting. And of course some calories are also burned in the gym while weightlifting.

The rewards should be pretty decent appearance after my cutting is done instead of just skin & bone... :D

So, does that mean I shouldn't bother lifting weights while I'm trying to lose weight? It's just a waste of time?
Absolutely not. You need to lift to try and maintain what lean muscle you have. In the long run this is the best way to lose weight and keep it off. Without a lifting program you will lose some fat, but your muscle mass will deplete over time and you are left being skinny, but with more fat than if you would have lifted weights. Also, it makes it harder to keep the weight off since muscle expends a lot of energy. This is why fad dieteres fail. They lose the weight, but at the price of muscle. When going back to previous habits there is less muscle to burn the fat. Therefore weightloss increases over the previous condition. Any good weightloss program should involve some type of resitance training. Lifting weights is not only not a waste of time, but a neccessity for long term success. Besides who wants to be skinny fat, don't you want to be toned when you lose the fat? :bb:

So, does that mean I shouldn't bother lifting weights while I'm trying to lose weight? It's just a waste of time?

NOoooo!!!! Not a waste of time! Lift weights! You absolutely can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. I did it, I think Duckman did it too, and I'm sure lots of others on this forum. These guys could be right that it's not as effecient, but I'm more concerned with long term goals, so that's the way I did it.

Muscle burns more calories than fat, so reducing your body fat percentage will cause you to lose fat much more quickly. I can eat more now than I could six months ago because of all the muscle that I have.

So, does that mean I shouldn't bother lifting weights while I'm trying to lose weight? It's just a waste of time?

That is incorrect. It is most definitaly not a waste of time. The weights helps to keep your LBM which supports your metabolic rate. If this was the only reason it would make it worth it but i can think of atleast 10 more good reasons.

Widers

One major problem i see a lot around here and in general, is that people go all out on either a bulk or a cut. If they are cutting, they restrict calories WAY to much, and so dont gain, or even loose LBM. When they are bulking, they eat too much, and thus gain BF.

The actual level of calories needed to cut is not as low as you think. Cutting too much is one of those "backwards excersize", like spot burning fat, or "the more i train, the bigger ill get". Sometime with these things, the best option isnt always the one that reads logically in your brain. Your cutting, so your mind says "The bigger my deficit is, the more fat i will loose, and the faster i will loose it. In fact, rarely is your body ever in a state of pure liposis (when your body uses only stored fat for energy). So you will need other energy sources as well. By restricting cals too much, your body will turn to that LBM and use that. So the weight may drop faster, but the BF rate wont change all that much. Yes you'll loose fat, but you'll loose LBM as well. And who wants that ? Visa versa, when you bulk, you think, "The more i eat, the bigger ill get". Again, not entirely true. Your body can only use so much protien for building new muscle tissue. Anything it cant use, it may then use for energy. If you dont use it up for that, you got stored fat. So you end up gaining BF.

My point (its in there somewhere !) is this. If you gain fat on a bulk, your cals are too high, your taking in more then your body needs to grow. If you loose LBM on a cut, your taking in too few cals for your body to function. Take the time to get the balance, get the right blend so your body uses stored fat for energy, but also has reserves to protect your LBM as well.

You cant make the mass gains cutting like you can bulking. But i see no reason why you cant gain some, if your taking in enough cals. And if your bulking, i see no need to gain BF, if you dont eat too much and EAT CLEAN. If you start to stop loosing BF, then drop the cals a bit, and so on.

I did this, and it worked fine. Sorry for the long post, but hopfully u'll find it useful.

Oh, and at 1500 cals, your way too low. I weigh 159lbs and i cut at 1800-1900. You will loose LBM at 1500.

Good post Reno. :tu:

I had 1500 calories ( I weigh about 195)
and had 2 meal replacements, turkey, tuna, and chicken. My total protein intake was almost 275 g.s
Let's play with numbers. According to the Harris Benedict formula (found in the sticky thread (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=1222) under Nutrition), your BMR is about 2050 kcals (I haven't found your height anywhere, I assumed about 180 cm). I haven't found your routine either, so I estimated that you land in the moderately active group, thereby multiplying that figure by 1.55, giving a total of roughly 3150 kcals needed each day (if you're more active, the figure would be even higher still). 1500 kcals would put you at 500 kcals below your BMR, which surely can't produce any muscles.

According to your signature, you've lost 0.2 lbs of lean mass, which I find to be quite extraordinary if you eat that little.

275 g of protein is about 1100 kcals. Comparing this to your every day need of 3150, you eat about 35% protein, which is about where people seem to want the protein. Looking at you actual intake, that figure is 73%. Quite far above any diet I've seen here. Most of that protein will surely be used up as energy, not to build muscle.

I am aware that this post might come off a little negative, but I hope you understand that I'm trying to help.

Oh, and at 1500 cals, your way too low. I weigh 159lbs and i cut at 1800-1900. You will loose LBM at 1500.

Agreed. I'm 176 now, and I'm cutting on 26-2800 k cal...while building lean mass(take a look in the media gallery for my one year anniversary post :tu: )

Thanks for the well thought out responses, all.

Back to the :db:

One major problem i see a lot around here and in general, is that people go all out on either a bulk or a cut. If they are cutting, they restrict calories WAY to much, and so dont gain, or even loose LBM. When they are bulking, they eat too much, and thus gain BF.


Indeed we should gain some perspective here. The difference betwen cutting and bulking, especially for someone getting close to 10%BF may only be a calorie intake difference of 10-20% of your 'normal' daily intake. The way I look at it, however, is what are you going to concentrate on? It's not an all-or nothing, either with food intake or weights vs cardio. BUT if you are trying to lift absolutely optimally for you body, AND doing 5-6 days of 45+ min cardio, my opinion is you are not going to be optimally doing anything. That does not mean you do no cardio when bulking or no lifting while cutting, it just means your priority shifts slightly from one to the other. When bulking I fit in cardio where it make sense, but don't comprimise my bodies ability to recover as quickly as possible for the next session. When I cut, I'm not going to work out 5 times a week because I'll not recover between workouts if I'm also doing more serious cardio and cutting calories by 15%.

My opinion is that for starters just eating right, doing weights and some cardio is the way to go. You'll probably get injured trying to do too much of one thing. But (I think) anyone that has been lifting for a while (say more than a couple of years) should have a lifting routine that is optimized for you body, and if you can still do 5 days of good cardio a week, you could be lifting harder and gaining faster.

Of couse I'm always open to being proved wrong, and often it come down to lifestyle and motivation. If mixing it up keeps your motivated, they you'll definitely do better than is you loose motivation.