We were sat in a bar on holiday having had a few beers (and god knows whatever else!), and 2 of my friends and I ended up talking about me and how I had lost weight etc. I had never really talked to them about it before in detail, they had just heard and seen various things about my lifestyle and diet here and there. There were some compliments had, and various comments about how much I had changed etc. They were generally complimentary about my new appearance and I was flattered to hear one of them say how he was envious about my upper body physique in comparison to his own.

The topic progressed onto how they were actually worried about where I was going and what I wanted to achieve. I made it pretty clear that I know (pretty much) what I am doing and that what I eat is not a health risk. They seemed to think that my ways of eating were in some way dangerous and that this was not safe. I feel that my comments towards carbs and sugars at times when I am with them perhaps contributed towards these assumptions they had made. I explained that I had gained my knowledge from various reliable internet sources (which in itself is another debate as people don't seem to trust internet information). Even though I carry more body fat than the both of them, and also more muscle mass, they seemed to think that I ought not to lose any more weight (fat, muscle, whatever, its the same to them).

I explained that in order to most effectively gain muscle and remain as lean as I wanted I would first have to lose the extra fat that I have. I mentioned that I want to get pretty lean at the moment and then after that will alter my goals in order to become much more muscular. I don't know how they interpreted this but they seemed to think that I am obsessed with becoming really thin and will not stop until I am stick thin - which is something I would never ever want to become.

Their way of explaining their worries sounded very much, to me at least like they were saying I had some sort of eating disorder - which I most certainly do not. Admittedly, neither of them understand much about nutrition or working out in general, but I was just shocked to hear that they thought that I would try to become so skinny that it becomes dangerous. I don't know if they have picked up this assumption from comments I have made, but as far as I am concerned I don't really want to weigh any less than I did 20 lbs ago, let alone another 10 down the line.

They said that I should "stay as I am" because that suits me - which is fine, but surely if I am not satisfied with how I look then changing how I look has got to be a positive change for me personally. I wonder whether they are just used to seeing me how I used to look (much like I am admittedly) and are resistant to change even if it happens before their eyes.

What are your thoughts?

Your friends are taking your body transformation out of context. They speak out of ignorance; while not necessarily ignorant by the definition of the word, your friends are obviously ignorant of training and dieting methods.

It takes a great deal of research, application, trial and error, and perserverance to do the things that JSF inhabitants do. We struggle, detail, learn, gain, lose, and share all of it... together. It's one of the more unique message boards I've had the pleasure of terrorizing on a daily basis because of that fact. If your friends don't understand your transformation, give them the JSF URL and let them discover for themselves.

I grew tired of justifying my fitness quest to the world. I've had many a friend express concern because I won't down half a pitcher at Hooters anymore. They look at me like a madman as I down a chocolate protein shake instead of share in their 100-plate of buffalo wings. They don't understand. Trying to tell anyone that you've gained significant, accurate knowledge from the Internet is the same as trying to sell someone oceanfront property in Iowa... they just won't believe it's there, despite the fact that most of them will surf the Internet in a heartbeat to find any/all information they can about their own hobbies and interests. These are people who don't think outside the box, don't understand the we all take with the proverbial grain of salt the information we gather here, and that we all safely execute our programs to the best of our ability.

There, of course, will always be that one in a million case where it's taken to the extreme. Your friends are concerned about you and that in and of itself is good. All it takes to allay their fears is a quiet, calm conversation explaining your position, where you started and where you're going. If they can't understand or support you at that point (and I've had friends who just can't understand my transformation or my need to continue) then you must agree to disagree and that's that.

Above all, if you're not happy with yourself, you should compromise your goals for no one as long as your goals aren't harmful to you. Your continued participation in these forums is indication enough of that to me, and I don't even know you.

Bottom line? Let them express their fears. Try to allay their fears - you don't have to qualify where you're getting the information, since the Internet is not a trusted source of information to most people. Simply lay your case before your friends, leave it up to them to decide - but let them know you're committed to your path and that it's a healthy one, despite their concerns.

I know your pain, I am continually fighting a similar battle. Many of them aren't friends per se anymore because they only encourage me to remain at their level rather than continue on to become a better person, inside and out. I have enough trouble continually motivating myself without anyone else anchoring me to the physically dismal person I used to be, therefore, if you're not with me, you're against me and I don't have time for you. Period. I've told that to more than one person... you may have to stand up for yourself at some point, too. It'll only get harder, the more fit you become.

Good luck.

-R

I get that from time to time too. I get the "you're already skinny" comments from people. "You don't need to lose more weight". I even had someone throw out the anorexia word once.

I think people in general have a misconception about losing fat. Losing fat, in my opinion, is not the same as losing weight. Personally, I don't give a flip how much I weigh, I want to have a certain level of fat content in my body. If I were the exact weight I am right now but at 10% fat I'd be ecstatic. I think people miss this point.

The other thing is, if people only realized what a chore it can be sometimes to make sure that your body is receiving the proper nutrition that it needs, they might begin to realize that THEY are the ones that have the eating disorders. Pizza, burgers and beer are not wholesome meals. Is it any wonder that obesity is becoming such a rampant problem? You're going to tell me that with the way that people get heavier by the day, that I'm the one with an eating disorder?

Sounds like you've got some good friends that care about you. What a great opportunity to educate them, especially the one friend that is envious of your upper body. Bring them to the gym, show them what you eat. and you might just gain some alies.

Thanks Bluestreak, that proves to me that I am not the only one who has to go through this for the sake of our lifestyle. I sometimes wish that I could just eat normally so that I could just fit in with the crowd, not look akward and just "be normal" in other peoples eyes. One of my friends has become interested in working out, and often asks me for advice regarding excercises, which I take as a compliment that he thinks that I have more knowledge than him. I sometimes become dissapointed that he doesn't take my nutritional advice and remains to eat pretty badly most of the time - albeit it much better than most who are not conscious about what they eat. He claims to be a "hard gainer" because he has a small frame is always very lean. I argue that if he ate in order to build then he would see gains, but it really does feel like it is falling on deaf ears.

Its not that I cannot be bothered with explaining things to my friends, or other people for that matter, but its the fact that I prefer to leave them in their own world and for the to continue to think what they think, trying to change their ideas of what is correct would take me a long time - especially when what I have to say is based on the aforementioned "Internet knowledge".

I think what gets me most about, in my own experience at least, is people who make comments about my diet based on observations they have made, and almost entirely of assumptions based on these observations. For example, when with my g/f I may refuse to eat carbs after a certain time because it does not fit into my daily diet, she takes this as me not eating any carbs whatsoever all day long and that not being healthy "you need carbs for energy", bla bla bla, I sometimes get really tired of explaining and feel like being ignorant myself to some extent, although that is not the person I am unfortunately.

I used to get the same remarks all the time. Running a family owned restaurant, alot of people have seen my physique change- 242 to 167.
When i was cutting really well i got all sorts of questions like "did you want to lose all that weight or are you sick?" i would reply to that one with " yeah, sick and tired of being fat" There was also the rumor that i had cancer. When i saw people i hadn't seen in awhile i was soo happy to see their jaws drop-especially the women ;) You will sometimes see some jealousy as well. My family members were even making comments. I have a customer who was a Mr. Colorado at one time and was always encouraging. He knew what it was about and told me they are not used to seeing me this lean. How how lean a person must be to be impressive. Hope this helps :)

Sounds like you've got some good friends that care about you. What a great opportunity to educate them, especially the one friend that is envious of your upper body. Bring them to the gym, show them what you eat. and you might just gain some alies.

Agreed, his friends have identified that he looks good and has made gains but they are FRIENDS and they are wanting to make sure he hasn't developed an UNHEALTHY obsessive complex.

Telling them your calorie intake vs the normal chart for your sex should be indicative alone of the fact that you are eating well. Then get them to add up their calorie intake, look who's closer to normal.

Perhaps the fact that we had had a few drinks made it more difficult to exmplain my point of view, but I did try to explain that I eat 1800 calories a day and the recommended intake is just over 2000. I'm not in a position to have them calculate their calories, they don't care enough about the point I was trying to make to go to that much trouble.

I do have kind of an obsessive personality I must admit, once I want something that is pretty much the end of it until it has been achieved. But I don't see how my personality relates to me being unsafe in what I eat?

I agree, they are superb friends for being concerned, and for that I commend them, they are some of my closest friends and I will always respect their opinions, however misinformed I think they may be.

Admittedly, neither of them understand much about nutrition or working out in generalThat is exactly why their opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Millions of people have lost weight and suffered such useless "advice" from friends and loved ones. These friends and family are used to seeing a dumpy unfit individual. When that individual suddenly takes the reigns and starts losing weight, he/she often illuminates his/her bystanders to their own shortcomings (being overweight and unfit), which can make them lash out uselessly, often trying to mask their insecurities as "looking out" for the person. Alternatively these people see that the person has lost a lot of weight and unnaturally assume that he'll keep losing it forever and become anorexic, something that is almost always inaccurate.

Keep losing fat and putting on muscle until you're happy with what you've become. Until then, take the advice and negative comments of your peers with a grain of salt. If they're not merely jealoous, they're probably ignorant, and normally a combination of the two. My co-workers have never known me to follow anything but the diet I do now, but even after a year they still find it unbelievable. I joke along with them at times, all the while knowing that they would like the body I have (I'm not being cocky, just honest), and inwardly content that I do eat what I do, even if they make fun of it :)

I've seen your pics and you're not anorexic, so just keep up your great progress and ignore the flak.

BTW, I no longer try to explain to people what I know or why I eat as I do. If they ask I'll mouth a quick reply and move onto something else. Unless a person is truly interested in it (most people are not), I am not going to bother explaining myself and witness yet another person incredulous at my eating habits.

Bluestreak's last paragraph is basically what it's all about. People hate to be left behind while their former peers surge ahead. That's what you're doing.

Everyone kinda already expressed my feelings on this...but my question is: how do you feel about your friends health?

This is a big one for me. I have 2 friends that are overweight (one very much so), one willing ot get in shape (waitin' for him to return to school) and one that is "already in shape" but eats like trash and doesn't really know much about fitness. I don't catch too much of the "concern" type crap from the, just get picked on and the normal "DUDE HAVE A PIECE OF PIZZA" type stuff...my deal is that while they aren't "concerned" like your friends are, I have a legitimate concern for them. Your friends don't want to see you become obsessed with fitness, but I'll bet that you'd really like for them to take the same type of dedication and self-responsible behavior that you've taken on! I do. I really wish my friends were interested in fitness, not just because it would help me (have someone to workout with, better food around the house, etc.) but because I genuinely care about my friends and I nkow that in 5-10 years I'm going to be fit and healthy and they're going to be sick and obese (smoking and drinking are major issues here as well).

I think the dynamic is interesting here...they're overly willing to label your fitness as something unhealthy, but if you try to label their unhealthiness as a lack of fitness I'll bet you hear excuse after excuse after excuse (Let me spare you the time of asking and answer for them: "I don't have the time." "I'm not going to drink protein shakes and eat egg whites." "I want to LIVE." "Even though I watch tv for 5-6hours a day, I dno't have the time dude..."). You should turn the tables on them next time they say you're being unhealthy and tell them that you're concerned about their health (this will shut them up guaranteed). Challenge them to do what you do...see waht comes of that.

You should turn the tables on them next time they say you're being unhealthy and tell them that you're concerned about their health (this will shut them up guaranteed). Yeah, but it's less taboo to call somebody too thin than say "Man, you need to drop a few pounds, fatty." See, I think that most people know that they have to lose weight, and would rather put down somebody else's being too thin, than make issue of their own weight problem (which is a legitimate problem, whereas thinness normally is not).

I'm rather cynical, but I've seen enough people fail at enough things in their lives to realize that most people simply can't be bothered to do what's best for them. They'll take the easy route now and the hard as heck one later (not excercising now, dying from obesity later), as opposed to the somewhat difficult route now, and the easy route later (a little excercise and prevention now to stave off death from heart attack at 50). Whether it's excercise or finances, people just can't be bothered to put in the effort now, so I'm mostly content knowing that I do have the foresight that others lack, and I won't expend energy trying to motivate somebody else, because motivation should be found within, not from somebody else. I spent years training with my best friend and had to watch him all finally throw it away out of apathy. I realized that he needed me to workout. He couldn't do it by himself. A great many people have pervasive self-confidence issues and don't believe they have the power that they do. This saps at their willingness to take things on and assert control over their lives, so many just let their lives assert control over them, like they're going along for the ride instead of getting behind the wheel.

God, but I ramble!

Skoorb, you make a few good points, but I'm gonna have to point out something... you use the word 'they' quite a bit... In fact, a good chunk of the previous posters have too.

They are fat. They are unwilling. They are the ignorant ones. They are the whatever...

Well, to everything you've said, yes and no. It's very easy to overgeneralize in these kinds of ingroup/outgroup situations. 'We' are the ingroup of people who want to change our lives, and 'They' are not.

Take for instance the posters and readers on this forum: the ingroup. There is a great amount of support for those who want to change their physical and mental health, that much is obvious just from reading the forums. There is also a great amount of diversity in those here... Some are more 'hardcore' than others, some are more laid back. I can think of a million examples of this (issues on milk, cereal, hiit vs low-intensity cardio, every supplement, etc...). My point is that there is a great deal of diversity in 'us'. So, why can't there be a great deal of diversity in 'them'?

I remember when I used to down a monstrous glass off iced tea and have a few pizza pockets, watching television during the summer... Over and over again. I was completely ignorant of the fitness world, of the health risks that I put on myself, yada yada yada... What made me want to change it all? It was pretty whimsical actually. I quite literally, 'just felt like changing'. The most nutritional information I got was from reading the entire health section of howstuffworks.com, and frankly, if someone told me to eat 7 times a day, not to train every day, WALK for cadio (psssh! walking?!?!), and start eating eggs again, I would have laughed at them, and probably not have listened to what they were saying.

Now, was I stupid? Nah... Ignorant? yes, but this doesn't mean that I can't change. My brother got into working out a year before I did. He did his research, and started taking supplements and eating a lot. I made fun of him for taking supplements... That was 6 months ago. Things have changed a bit since then (;

So no, I wouldn't recommend ignoring people's requests at proper nutritional/fitness information simply because 'they' wouldn't listen to it anyways. I'm also not recommending scolding people harshly for eating pizza and coke everyday for lunch. People learn at different speeds, and people's attitudes change towards certain aspects of life at different speeds (I doubt ANY of you will disagree with that... if you do, i'd love to talk!)

What may be better than offering specific advice is to just say, 'eat smaller meals more often, and go do some cardio... it's pretty simple actually, the rest are just details' and offer simple sources of information (ie: JSF!). It may also be good to take these people to the gym for a day, show them what you're made of, and just get a chance to talk to them.

(Oi this post is getting long... only a bit more, i promise!)

Although attempting to convince someone of what is 'healthy' (I dislike that word) may seem like a worthy and virtuous cause, it may not actually help anybody. Unless you really respect someone, or have seen their progress and achievements, would you really listen to them when they tell you things which are radically different from the philosophies you are framiliar with?

Ok, I'm done... enjoy the sauce!

Just let your friends know that to get where you want to be in as short of time possible, it requires a bit of "obsessing". The details of the foods you eat and the exercising you do every day has a monsterous effect on the potential goal. Let them know that you are working to be at a certain level and your nutrition and routines are normal for people that want to safely achieve a healthy physique. (Just don't mention the internet in that phrase :) )

Offer to help them out with nutrional hints and advice when they decide they're ready to change.

Yeah, but it's less taboo to call somebody too thin than say "Man, you need to drop a few pounds, fatty." See, I think that most people know that they have to lose weight, and would rather put down somebody else's being too thin, than make issue of their own weight problem (which is a legitimate problem, whereas thinness normally is not).

I'm rather cynical, but I've seen enough people fail at enough things in their lives to realize that most people simply can't be bothered to do what's best for them. They'll take the easy route now and the hard as heck one later (not excercising now, dying from obesity later), as opposed to the somewhat difficult route now, and the easy route later (a little excercise and prevention now to stave off death from heart attack at 50). Whether it's excercise or finances, people just can't be bothered to put in the effort now, so I'm mostly content knowing that I do have the foresight that others lack, and I won't expend energy trying to motivate somebody else, because motivation should be found within, not from somebody else. I spent years training with my best friend and had to watch him all finally throw it away out of apathy. I realized that he needed me to workout. He couldn't do it by himself. A great many people have pervasive self-confidence issues and don't believe they have the power that they do. This saps at their willingness to take things on and assert control over their lives, so many just let their lives assert control over them, like they're going along for the ride instead of getting behind the wheel.

God, but I ramble!

Great post :tu:

As for the thread starter, I also get this off my family... but luckily my friends are pretty fit themselves, so do nothing but help :)

Yeah, but it's less taboo to call somebody too thin than say "Man, you need to drop a few pounds, fatty." See, I think that most people know that they have to lose weight, and would rather put down somebody else's being too thin, than make issue of their own weight problem (which is a legitimate problem, whereas thinness normally is not).

I'm rather cynical, but I've seen enough people fail at enough things in their lives to realize that most people simply can't be bothered to do what's best for them.

Skoorb, I totally understand where you're comin' from. I certainly didn't mean to be like "Yo dude you're a fatass do some cardio!" Thats something I would never do. I meant that just as they pull you aside and say "Hey, I'm concerned about your health" in terms of weight loss, you can do the same in terms of weight gain. People certainly do learn at different speeds, and while motivation comes from within IMO there is a certain stimulus that will push that motivation along. For many of us John Stone is that stimulus. I looked at that guy and said "Whoa, if he can do it why can't I?" That wasn't motivation that came from within...sure NOW the motivation is all within me, but to start with it certainly wasn't.

You're right as well when you say that most people simply cna't be bothered to do whats best for them..but does that mean you shouldn't try? Someone made the comment that "Well, your friends care about you because they want to be sure you're healthy..." So if thats ok (esp. when the person IS being healthy) why shouldn't it be ok for you to take equal concern in their lack of health?

I don't pester my roommates about "You need to lose some wieght" type comments. I lead by example. I skip the 10cent wing nights (tonight) to go to the gym, I decline beer even when I go to the bars w/ them, I wake up everyday at the same time they have to go to work so I can go to the gym, and I keep healthy food around and always tell them to feel free to eat whatever I buy. Do they workout with me? Almost never. Do they understand eating clean, etc? Probably very little. However! My roommate came in today to ask when he could go to the gym since he's registered for classes now (which will be another couple weeks). I told him that since we have class at the same time we could hit up the gym together if he wants. So you see, I didn't say "Hey Mike, you're gettin' fat and unhealthy." I lead by example. I quit smokin' pot, he quit smokin' cigarettes. I go to the gym everyday, now he's interested in the gym. Its a domino effect. I never give up on people, but I'm certainly not impolite either. All it takes is a reason for someone to get motivated to do whats in their best interest, and if I'm a part of that motivation...all the better for both of us!

I think my friends do understand that I have a dedication to changing my body, and appreciate the pain I go though in order to reach these goals. They accept that I eat a more balanced diet than any of them, and they also accept that they are not in the best physical shape that they could be - albeit it currently better than my own. My problem with what they have said to me is that I do not understand how they could think I would take what I am doing "too far" i.e. becoming unhealthily thin or developing some sort of disorder.

I stated to one of my friends that in a years time I would be ripped and a lot more muscular than I am now - he pretty much rejected this comment like it could never happen, as if I could not put muscle on if I so choose. To me this response to my statement proved his ignorance of this subject pretty well - him being one of those friends who eats total crap all the time without seemingly gaining weight or more importantly fat. I don't envy him a bit, while he may look leaner than me right now, I know I have more muscle, and I also know that my body is healthier whatever he says.

I've pretty much given up on trying to give my friends nutritional advice because I don't want them to see me as someone who thinks they know it all and is trying to impose his ways on other people. I have 3 friends who all are members of a gym, one, who I mentioned earlier is really interested in the working out side, and has become pretty consistent, he asks me questions and seeks to improve his technique and form as well as his knowledge of exercises. He understands what I do most, yet it was him who lead the concern that night on holiday. I have 2 other friends who also work out, they will go once or twice a month, sometimes more sometimes less. Neither really understand what I go through and both eat very poor diets - its very hard to try to advise people without sounding like you are telling them what to do.

I know this situation all too well! its not an issue with my friends and most of my family, but the one person who has given the least support to me, and most discouragement has to be my dad
for some reason, to lose weight, you have to cut out essential vitamins and minerals, he would always comment on my eating habits, based of one meal, so if i was eating chicken and broccoli at the time, then he saw me eating it again at the same time, on a different day, that is the ONLY thing i ate, so i was nutritionally lacking and wasting away!
then he gives me these diets in newspapers developed for 40+ year old inactive women, and somehow thinks that they are better, because they are created by the leading science organisation in australia, and for some reason a diet that i write HAS to be lacking in something, he doesnt understand that even though i do eat the same thing every day, my diet has more variety than the average persons diet (like changing the cooking style of a food really makes a huge difference in the good nutritional value, it only changes the taste, and has different amounts of bad fats and carbs)
for some reason to have a complete nutritional plan, you HAVE to incorperate bad foods, like they provide some magical nutrition that can only be made by machines, i wonder how all the cavemen lived :rolleyes:
now that i've finished losing weight, he is less worried because he thinks that im going to start eating crap again, i dont know why people think once your "finished" losing weight, you are going to go back to drinking beers and eating burgers every day, like i would want to destroy all the hard work i've put in and sacrifice all the gains i will make, because i've "finished"
basically pure ignorance with a dash of stupidity, and underestimating how much i've learnt on the internet (which he also doesnt like as a source of info, enen though all he does is sit on the internet learning about dinosaur and useless programming languages, also anything anti-microsoft)

on a different level, my nonna is supportive(she always gives us some "healthy" foods, which arent really healthy, but she means well), but also worried about eating, and doesnt want me to go below my "ideal" weight, although she is very glad i lost alot of weight... but she did come from italy, they were very poor and didnt have much food and so forth, so im very understanding about her concerns, when i had my big cheat day, i made my mum tell her that i ate her pasta, just to ease her up a bit :p (and it was damn good pasta too!!)

one thing that does annoy me, is one of my friends keeps offering me beers, trying to tempt me, i always refuse, he goes "its only one" if its only one, why would it be worth drinking!! i mean i dont really like beer that much, i would much rather eat a slice of pizza than have a can of beer, also he is convinced that you need alcohol to have fun, but i recon you can do so many better things than sit in a bar and drink, losing so many gains for a few hours of "fun" which you will forget anyway, and feel like crap the next day, i'd rather feel good 24/7 by having a good body, rather than feeling a false sence of confidence for a few hours then throwing up!

ok i went on for a little too long, rant/vent over

Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Lets be honest. We tend to get a bit 'obsessed' about food, exercise, and our body.

I think it is mentally not healthy to think so much about what's best for weight loss, and muscle gain. Live a little!

I speak out of experience. I've lost a lot of fat, and gained a good amount of muscle. Now I'm at the point of saying: OKAY, my body is fine now.. I am going to try to maintain this, and live a little.

Family are worse than friends!!

My sister is a nurse, and told me that I looked too thin and unhealty...

But both her and her husband fall well into the obese category, so you have to ask yourself how much is genuine concern from friends and family, and how much is masked envy.

As for obsession.......
Are we not all obsessed ??

We spend "all our free time" in the gym and every meal is a calculation. The change of life we all commit to is definetly a text book case of obsession. But obsession is what drives us forward, as individuals and as a race. It is only media coverage and our memories of "bad" obsessions that leads us to think obsession is bad. If we all had the same obsession it would no longer be obsession, but normality!

So I say.. be obsessed ... take it to the point that you no longer need to think about how often to work out and how often to eat, then it will cease to be an obsession but just part of who you are...

And if you can get some of your unfit family and friends obsessed to, just think of all the workout partners you would have to choose from!

So I say.. be obsessed ... take it to the point that you no longer need to think about how often to work out and how often to eat, then it will cease to be an obsession but just part of who you are...

I totally disagree! It's a matter of priority.

We tend to deny ourselves too much, and forget to just enjoy the finer things in life.

Do you really think, when you lie in your death-bed just before you die, you think: 'well I’ve denied myself everything, but at least I've had a nice body'? No of course not, you probably think: ‘I should have enjoyed life a little more, and shouldn't have worried so much about my appearance’.

Please understand, this is not a personal attack. I have to remind myself to this, again, and again, too.

All I'm saying is our family and friends don't really want to do anything to keep their body's in good shape, but we tend to deny ourselves too much, to do so. The best road to travel, is probably somewhere in-between.

I think you misunderstand me !!!

We are only seen as obsessed because its not what everyone does!!

When your "obsession" becomes part of your life,, the time spent thinking and calculating your next workout or meal is gone!!

This equals more time!!!!
And for me this is valuable time spent with my wife and children..

Hell yes ... enjoy life, live life, love life...

Do you really think, when you lie in your death-bed just before you die, you think: 'well I’ve denied myself everything, but at least I've had a nice body'? No of course not, you probably think: ‘I should have enjoyed life a little more, and shouldn't have worried so much about my appearance’.

This is a fine point, but some may have a different perspective. On my death bed, I don't want to think "Well, at least I got to watch a lot of T.V. and eat plenty of junk food"
I think that steveh is really talking about lifestyle rather than obsession. I'm getting to the point where I'm on auto-pilot, especially during the week. On weekends, I "live a little", and it seems more like a treat when I've been disciplined during the week.

Do you really think, when you lie in your death-bed just before you die, you think: 'well I’ve denied myself everything, but at least I've had a nice body'? No of course not, you probably think: ‘I should have enjoyed life a little more, and shouldn't have worried so much about my appearance’......

I would have to say that living your life a way in which you are happy leading it would be making the most of your life as you see it. Different people enjoy different things, putting one single description on what one must do in order to enjoy themselves is a little presumptuous. I must admit I agree with your point in part because I don't totally enjoy starving myself of the "finer" foods in life, but I should imagine some people do. By the same principle I really enjoy waking up and not having a hangover or always feeling healthy. I went on holiday with my friends last week and allowed myself to eat anything I wanted, and it felt great eating anything I wanted - at the time. Afterwards I would feel totally bloated and could literally feel the grease swimming around in my stomach. I would feel horrible through food at least once a day, I'll not do that again any time soon!

Looking at the big picture eating like we do in order to meet our goals is a huge dedication and also a massive accomplishment when we reach our goals, not to mention the countless hours spent in the gym. Working towards these goals is not just something we have to think about at various times in the day, but is a 24/7 commitment which people don't seem to realise. This feeling of self accomplishment is something that is not often shared by the people around us. I would imagine it is very difficult to quit smoking, but lets be honest all you have to do is stop doing it for X amount of time and your sorted. Changing your entire lifestyle to become fitter and more pleasing to the eye is a total commitment that we make to ourselves and when we reach that goal we have achieved so much more. I don't think people who are outside of "our circle" really understand what we go through in order to look how we do. I have changed my entire lifestyle in order to change my body for the better, and I am sure there are people much more hardcore than I. Trying to explain to people why we live like this is trying to get blood out of a stone in reality.

....All I'm saying is our family and friends don't really want to do anything to keep their body's in good shape, but we tend to deny ourselves too much, to do so. The best road to travel, is probably somewhere in-between.

Enter the regularly planned cheat meal!

All I am trying to say is, maybe it's not healthy to think of Kcalories etc. constantly, and I think we tend to do just that.

I've smoked for 10 years, and smoking tends to be on ones mind 24/7. You only realize it when you've stopped smoking. Now I'm into fitness, and have to say, I am constantly thinking about Kcal's, muscle gain, and fat loss. I'm trying to find some sort of equilibrium. I hope I'll find it.

Their way of explaining their worries sounded very much, to me at least like they were saying I had some sort of eating disorder - which I most certainly do not. ...I don't know if they have picked up this assumption from comments I have made, but as far as I am concerned I don't really want to weigh any less than I did 20 lbs ago, let alone another 10 down the line.

They said that I should "stay as I am" because that suits me - which is fine, but surely if I am not satisfied with how I look then changing how I look has got to be a positive change for me personally. I wonder whether they are just used to seeing me how I used to look (much like I am admittedly) and are resistant to change even if it happens before their eyes...

Our friends and family can feel both threatened and protective of us when we challenge fundamental beliefs that are bolstered everyday by TV Shows and our consumer society. If you had simply started a conversation with them about healthy eating and exercise, they would have disagreed and that would be the end of it. Instead, you changed yourself and it really shows, so you've won the argument by proving it.

You proved that popular beliefs around low-carb, low-fat, and other popular myths are, well, myths. You also proved that most restaurants (Hooters, for example) are not providing healthy food so that you would prefer to eat your own. You no longer eat the same things your friends do and you have lost weight to prove that really works. You also aren't about to be dissuaded and will continue on this path.

This can be scary for those who care about us because you contradict some basic beliefs, in this case about healthy living. You might have seen the same response if you had changed your religion to one requiring different clothes and attending church on Friday nights. You would be living a little differently than you have in the past and you would seem different to your friends-- just like with the diet. You've started living a different way than our society seems to show us, and that's a little threatening to your friends.

My suggestion is to reassure your friends: that you feel really great, that you use a lot of sources beside internet forums for research, and that you want to feel strong and energetic in a way that you haven't for a long time. Let them know that this is growth for you and that you appreciate their support and concern while you are doing it. You'll also have to let them know that you are not stopping and that you think this may be the most important thing you've ever done.

BTW, being a health and fitness nut is very cool.

I totally disagree! It's a matter of priority.

We tend to deny ourselves too much, and forget to just enjoy the finer things in life.

Not true, my friend. Generalizations like that are a smite dangerous.

"Obsession is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated."

Great quote. The catalyst for my physical transformation, as well as my current motivation, was a major change in our lifestyle before I became interested in fitness. Personally, I know that without a major motivating reason, I'd still be a chunky monkey. No bones about it. What I have gained since has only made me regret that I didn't make this change sooner.

An aesthetically pleasing body is an important factor for my wife and I. Fact is, as a result, I've lost my taste for 99% of the garbage I used to eat; I don't believe it's possible to deny oneself something that isn't missed. Now, I'm not saying that a piece of Oreo cheesecake and some cold milk wouldn't disappear in the blink of an eye if you tempted me with it, but it's something I see as an occasional treat - not something I'm denying myself. It's a matter of perspective and semantics.

The increase in energy and quality of life alone that I have discovered by eating better, more natural foods is worth more than all the decadent foods this planet will ever have to offer me.

I will further opine that people are afraid of change (as usual) and are clearly spoiled (at least in the US, they are). I know we're a multinational community, but I can safely say this country is fat. And they like being fat, dumb and happy. The convenience found in meals prepared outside the home (and for the most part, unhealthy meals) has sadly become a priority in a society that moves at a lightning quick pace. A society that prizes convenience above all - sacrificing long-held values left and right to live the laziest life possible in an effort to have more free time. And even then, most people appear lackadaisical at best, despite their continual gobbling up of every modern convenience to be presented - opting for pastimes that, in my opinion, aren't rewarding by any stretch of the imagination.

I simply create a different kind of convenience for myself in the form of pre-prepared, nutritionally sound meals. What's wrong with cutting out refined sugars and overprocessed foods? Nothing. It's a matter of choice.

And is there a happy medium? Yes. We each find it for ourselves. I don't obsess over calories. I don't maintain calorie logs anymore and I've stopped tracking my progress except for my pictures. I've learned to integrate fitness into my life. It's seamless now. I wake, I do my cardio, I go to work, I do my job, I go back to the gym, I complete my workout, I go home and I enjoy my free time as I wish.

Do you really think, when you lie in your death-bed just before you die, you think: 'well I’ve denied myself everything, but at least I've had a nice body'? No of course not, you probably think: ‘I should have enjoyed life a little more, and shouldn't have worried so much about my appearance’.

This is like any economic analysis. Is what you're paying worth what you're getting? Is it a good deal? Depends on the person. I haven't denied myself anything. If I want something, I go for it. Because I have this attitude and I indulge with moderation, I feel as though I've never given up a single thing. Through conscientous application of this attitude, I can look pleasing sans textiles, have my cake and eat it too.

All I'm saying is our family and friends don't really want to do anything to keep their body's in good shape, but we tend to deny ourselves too much, to do so. The best road to travel, is probably somewhere in-between.

You seem to prize self-indulgence to some degree, and that's fine. It seems as though it's something you learned from family (as did I, growing up healthy in a stereotypical Italian household is nearly impossible). My family and friends don't really want to take care of themselves either, and have a hard time understanding our motivations - and in fact, they're ignorant of mine - they have to be. They wouldn't understand, nor frankly, do most people.

It's the ugly "change" word again. Change is perceived as a threat when someone doesn't just say they're going to do something... but they go out an do it. Family and friends are the most susceptible to being affected by your changes because they're the ones who see you most often. Personal experience leads me to believe, in most cases, people don't like to have their untapped potential shoved in their faces by someone who went out and, without consulting them, made wildly positive changes in their lives. I mean... it must really suck to see someone who's glowing with health, exuberant, energetic and easy on the eyes - when they are none of those things but have every bit of the potential to become that way, would that they weren't so lazy.

And, my family at least, tends to be like "Co-dependency Central". Oh my achin' this, oh I went to the doctor for that... I used to be like that. NINE effing prescriptions to fix problems that being overweight caused - and I wasn't obese - just overweight. You know what cleared all of it up? Fitness. I wouldn't trade it for all the world.

This isn't to pick on you; you made many great points that I am, quite simply, diametrically opposed to. I'm passionate about topics like this because my battle occurs every day - I'm surrounded by overweight/obese people who spend plenty of time trying to tear down my efforts... when, little do they know, it's just fuel for the fire.

-R

If this were a forum dedicated to the all-pineapple diet or the latest fad of the month, the obsession would be bad. What we're doing is actually not obsession, it's the practice of moderation. I can have a dessert, just not every meal. I can have pizza, just not 6 giant slices at a sitting.

I just don't see a problem being forced to eat steak, chicken, hamburger -- with whole wheat bun -- along with the fruits, veggies & nuts that I prefer for the rest of my life. About the only thing I deprive myself of is an over-the-top dessert every time I eat out and frequent deep-dish pizzas (mmm).

Moderation is self-control. The problem "obsession" is excess without self-control.

I definitely agree with Bluestreak. There is a relativistic problem here - if you consider the people criticizing you as themselves being misguided or pathological, you're at a bit of an impasse. If they don't acknowledge they're pathological, you're going to seem extreme to them, and if you hold your opinion steady and do not change on their account, they're going to continue to refer to you as obsessive or pathological, and will seem extreme to you.

The catch is that medical science and mountains of evidence are definitely on our side in this one. There is a widespread, fundemental eating problem in America (and a quickly-growing one in the rest of the industrialized world, especially Britain). Heart disease is the #1 killer. So, sure, they can call you obsessed. From their point of view, they're right. But the facts are on your side. So, if they get out of their emotions and into their reasoning faculties, they really don't have a leg to stand on. Eventually, the truth will make itself apparent.

However, there is such a thing as obsessive behavior linked to changes in body composition. There are many people who are obsessed, and there are people with eating disorders who lose too much weight. In our urge to defend ourselves, we shouldn't forget this.

(Of course, it seems oddly unscientific to only categorize an eating disorder as disordered eating that makes you too thin; my guess is that most eating disorders qua "eating disorders" involve weight gain, not weight loss, but I digress)

Anyway, by my estimation (and I haven't been here all that long), the best thing about JSF, other than the information, comradery, and general spirit of the place, is that people are quicker to point out when you're doing too much than they are to point out you're doing too little. Every day there's another topic with the reply "You're not eating enough!" right there under the first post. Overtraining is always pointed out by the regulars and experienced members for what it is.

JSF, as a community, knows that truly obsessive behavior produces sub-optimal results (isn't the body amazing?), and actively discourages it among its members. I think it's more of a force against obsession in the weight loss/muscle gain internet nation than any other place I've been. And I'm grateful for that.

In fact, if I knew anybody truly obsessed with fitness, I'd refer them here. Actually, in the past, I have. It's a good reality-check to talk to other thinking individuals who have taken the subject seriously and don't have a financial stake in it. And maybe even a few who do, but always as a couple of voices among many.

People seem to be vanishing off some rabbit warren here.
Can i restate that you may or may not be partaking in an _-=UNHEALTHY=-_ Obsessive complex but your friends are watching out for you and wish to make sure that you are not heading there.

It's good to keep a clean house, polishing the already clean surfaces 500 times a day is a sign of an unhealthy obsession, anorexia is unhealthy.

This thread was about other peoples perceptions (not the real OPP, but yeah, you know me!). Your mother might bitch about you driving too fast, but she's not in the drivers seat, she doesn't know exactly what you know. There's no harm in her being concerned though, is there?

Facts go a long way to clarifying your position (and reassuring others).

I can look pleasing sans textiles, have my cake and eat it too.


CRACKIN' ME UP!!! LOL!!! "sans textiles" HA! Great use of vocabulary bro!

This is a great thread and a great discussion.

Funnily enough, I had some "worry" issues from the g/f this very morning!! I tried a little harder to explain everything than I normally do and made it clear what my goals are and where I intend to be a little way down the line. I mentioned all of my points which I felt people assumed etc etc, and was able to explain better than normal why I eat the way I do and why I am so dedicated. I think it turned out pretty well in the end, she calls me obsessed, I just passed it off as dedicated. At the end of it, her biggest 3 problems were as follows;

- She thinks that I am doing this whole thing for other reasons, i.e. other women - that’s another thread altogether!! Although this time I think I got through to her about why I am doing this.

- She dislikes the fact that I refuse to go out for a meal with her often because of the crap I will undoubtedly eat. My philosophy is that if I can't eat something which I really enjoy, then I refuse to go out and pay to eat what is essentially very ordinary.

- She would rather I call my scheduled "cheat meals" "treat meals" instead. LOL

All in all I think I may have set her mind at rest a very tiny amount and she understands that I don't want to be skinny any more than she wants to be fat. I had difficulty trying to educate her based on nutritional knowledge that I have based on Internet research, but again, that’s another thread altogether!

- She dislikes the fact that I refuse to go out for a meal with her often because of the crap I will undoubtedly eat. My philosophy is that if I can't eat something which I really enjoy, then I refuse to go out and pay to eat what is essentially very ordinary.


Are you unable to find a place a restaurant that serves you appetising food that you can also take a partner to? The cheat meal means this can be wherever for whatever you please. (Secondary, can't you just make some allowances for your partner?)

She thinks that I am doing this whole thing for other reasons, i.e. other women - that’s another thread altogether!! Although this time I think I got through to her about why I am doing this.I've heard of that before, and it's more worrisome than friends/family dogging a diet. The natural response from you would be to ask if she wants you to become less attractive overall and give up on yourself :) Somebody who doesn't want their significant other to become more attractive may have some esteem issues with the relationship...

First of all I’d like to say that I’m not trying to get down to 8% BF or anything like that. I started looking fat because I just got uncomfortable, but realized along the way that changing my diet just gave me more energy and made me feel better on a daily basis.

I wasn’t originally going to post to this thread, but it’s too enticing! My biggest detractor is indeed my wife, not because she thinks I’m going after other women, but because she knows I have an obsessive personality and is worried that I’m going to do something unhealthy. Recently she got pregnant for the second time, has put on a bit more weight that the first time and this has been great for me. Why, because suddenly she really wants to eat healthier and her investigations have lead her to realizing that I’m not full of shit. In fact, for the first time ever she actually asks me about nutrition.

I used to have ‘cheat meals’ (I did post a comment about them), but I kept feeling bad afterwards (like ill, not bad about eating). Last time I did this I thought I’d really enjoy a bit of cheese cake. It was excellent, but I felt a bit sick after half of it. I’m not sure I’ll ever learn, but I’m getting close.

A lot is about balance. For instance I know whatever I want to achieve, there are certain ‘givens’ in my life, like I will have to eat a family meal around 6 pm and I won’t be able to work out exactly when I want to all the time. As time has gone by though, my wife has got more and more supportive (like not expecting me to eat junk foot when we are out and it’s lunch time) and letting me split dinner into 2 smaller meals.

People change, sometimes those around us come along for the ride, sometimes they don't, question is: do you get off the ride?

She dislikes the fact that I refuse to go out for a meal with her often because of the crap I will undoubtedly eat. My philosophy is that if I can't eat something which I really enjoy, then I refuse to go out and pay to eat what is essentially very ordinary.

I don't want to step into other's relationships, just as much as I wouldn't want someone else stepping in and telling me what to do in mine (which for now wouldn't consist of much anways :D), but still I think this needs to be said.

I think some kind of exception should be made here, and I think this point is rather serious. There HAS to be some compromise for the two of you to go out and eat at a restaurant (for her sake!). Either find some place which serves some good meat & salads, or make it a once a week cheat meal to go out with her... But it doesn't sound like a very good idea to simply REFUSE to go out for a meal with her because you're looking after your diet. This is the kind of brickwall stuff that people DO count as obsessive behavior (at least, I do...).

Again, I don't know anything about the two of you, and I'm certainly no councelling psychologist, plus I could have misread what you were attempting to tell us, but there has to be some kind of compromise for something which sounds 'unhealthy'

Are you unable to find a place a restaurant that serves you appetising food that you can also take a partner to? The cheat meal means this can be wherever for whatever you please. (Secondary, can't you just make some allowances for your partner?)

I don't want to step into other's relationships, just as much as I wouldn't want someone else stepping in and telling me what to do in mine (which for now wouldn't consist of much anways :D), but still I think this needs to be said.

I think some kind of exception should be made here, and I think this point is rather serious. There HAS to be some compromise for the two of you to go out and eat at a restaurant (for her sake!). Either find some place which serves some good meat & salads, or make it a once a week cheat meal to go out with her... But it doesn't sound like a very good idea to simply REFUSE to go out for a meal with her because you're looking after your diet. This is the kind of brickwall stuff that people DO count as obsessive behavior (at least, I do...).

Again, I don't know anything about the two of you, and I'm certainly no councelling psychologist, plus I could have misread what you were attempting to tell us, but there has to be some kind of compromise for something which sounds 'unhealthy'

Yes I agree with both of you about this. I may have been a little harsh when I said refuse. We actually went out for a meal before my holiday, I felt that I owed it to her to take her for a meal since I would not see her for a week. I agree that I should make a compromise with regards to eating out, but I do find it difficult to pay to eat a salad for example when I would rather eat a mixed grill.

The thing is, I will try to aviod eating out etc as much as possible, and then "one of those events" comes along i.e. mates 21st like it is this week - I didn't really want to have a cheat so soon after my holiday but we are going for a meal and then to another city to get totally smashed. Its a birthday ritual and I would not change it for the world. I've got my meal planned out already, I'm ready for it right now. I'm doing the full 3 course thing and I'm going to love it.

Then the week after it is my g/f's sister's birthday where I will unlikely be able to get away without a few beers and a 'healthier' bbq. These little occurences that pop along when you are doing well are partly the reason why I can't give in to my g/f - because wither her I do have a choice about whether I go out for a meal or not etc.

I think you are right, I should compromise with her, I'm going to try and think of a place I can take her that sell some reasonable food which isn't OTT 3k calories in one sitting kind of thing. There is one bonus about having regular but far apart cheat meals - when we do have one together, she appreciates it a lot more.

What I noticed is how twisted people's view on healthy weight is.

I was talking to one of my coworkers and - like most americans - he wants to lose weight. I asked him how much. He told me his target weight. I told him about the BMI tables and even found the healthy weight range for his height. As it turns out his precieved healthy target weight was like 25 lbs higher than BMI 25.

When I told him that based on the BMI tables (and the studies behind them) he should be X lbs he said that there is no way, he would have hollowed in cheeks and would not be healthy. I mentioned to him that I *have* hollowed in cheeks and am at BMI 23 and that I am stronger and feel better than ever before my life, I race my bike and go uphill like there is no tomorrow. But there was just no way to convince him that the BMI 25 weight would be better for him.

I think that being a fatass is becoming such a norm that people just don't see a healthy lean person as normal any more.

It makes me feel ten times better to know that I'm not the only one dealing with this insanity.

I used to think they were jealous. Maybe that's partly true. But some of the people who call me too skinny ARE genuinely concerned. For the most part, that's a GOOD thing. What if I DID have an eating disorder and nobody cared enough to call me on it?

Mostly though, I agree with Bunko. They really have no idea that the weight that I am currently at is a healthier weight than the weight that most of the other average people in the world are at. I look unhealthy simply because I look different than your neighbor. I'm unusually lean; I must be wasting away. :rolleyes: Last night someone told me "Don't be losing any more weight!" It's hard to explain that I'm not trying to lose weight. I'm trying to make healthier diet and exercise choices, and my weight happens to fluctuate downwards when I do that. I'm not starving myself or exhausting myself. I'm eating only the foods that I need and doing the amount of exercise that energizes my body.

Hopefully after talking to me for a bit, it is perfectly clear that I have twice as much energy as I used to, feel twice as good about myself as I did before, and am generally twice as happy about everything in my life. :D

I think that being a fatass is becoming such a norm that people just don't see a healthy lean person as normal any more.

I think that being a fatass is becoming such a norm that people just don't see a healthy lean person as normal any more.You're totally right. But, I think in some ways people say this because they honestly don't know just how heavy they are. I have a friend who says that he wants to lose 15-20 pounds. Having lost that amount myself I can say with certainty that 40 is a better number for him. A guy at work wants to lose 15. I look at his belly and think "Try doubling that". People often don't realize just how fat they are, so if you tell these guys they need to lose twice as much as they think they may respond that they'd look sick or die from a low bodyfat, but that's not even mildly true. Either they don't know how much 30 lbs looks like, or refuse to believe that they're as fat as they actually are.

Additionally, so many people are so overweight now that it has indeed become the norm to be overweight. Those who are now not overweight are a minority - they are abnormal, by definition, and this is skewing the public's perception of what healthy is.

You're totally right. But, I think in some ways people say this because they honestly don't know just how heavy they are. I have a friend who says that he wants to lose 15-20 pounds. Having lost that amount myself I can say with certainty that 40 is a better number for him. A guy at work wants to lose 15. I look at his belly and think "Try doubling that". People often don't realize just how fat they are, so if you tell these guys they need to lose twice as much as they think they may respond that they'd look sick or die from a low bodyfat, but that's not even mildly true. Either they don't know how much 30 lbs looks like, or refuse to believe that they're as fat as they actually are.

I run into that when people ask how much I want to lose. I tell them that to get to my 'ideal' weight I need to lose 65 pounds (240->175). Usually they are shocked and say I'm crazy. Then come the "You like fine" or "You only need to lose 15-20 pounds" comments.

I'm glad they think I look fine but that is not the point. I don't think I look fine and therefore plan on working to lose weight. Maybe I will think I look fine in 20, 30 or 40 pounds but it is my choice to make. I know what makes me happy and that I won't do anything that makes me feel bad so they should have nothing to worry about.

I totally disagree! It's a matter of priority.

We tend to deny ourselves too much, and forget to just enjoy the finer things in life.

Do you really think, when you lie in your death-bed just before you die, you think: 'well I’ve denied myself everything, but at least I've had a nice body'? No of course not, you probably think: ‘I should have enjoyed life a little more, and shouldn't have worried so much about my appearance’.

Please understand, this is not a personal attack. I have to remind myself to this, again, and again, too.

All I'm saying is our family and friends don't really want to do anything to keep their body's in good shape, but we tend to deny ourselves too much, to do so. The best road to travel, is probably somewhere in-between.

I just had to reply, i found this post so stupid.
Personally i find pretty much everything that doesnt lead to some sort of improvement a total waste of time.

I could live my life without getting drunk, eating tons of fat hamburgers without getting depressed on my deathbed over how i "wasted my life" just becuase its not the common way to live.

Dedication and hard work that gives results is what makes me happy. Compared to, say, going out to a bar and have a couple of drinks. Which i personally think is a complete waste of time, simply boring.
Partying? Boring.


I say screw in between.

Im not telling others what they are doing is wrong and my way of living is somehow better in the end, ill let them decide what makes them happiest.
Even though the typical, 'going clubbing on weekends, getting married, have 2 kids, move to a house and get a dog' sounds like the worst possible nightmare to me.

You're totally right. But, I think in some ways people say this because they honestly don't know just how heavy they are. I have a friend who says that he wants to lose 15-20 pounds. Having lost that amount myself I can say with certainty that 40 is a better number for him. A guy at work wants to lose 15. I look at his belly and think "Try doubling that". People often don't realize just how fat they are, so if you tell these guys they need to lose twice as much as they think they may respond that they'd look sick or die from a low bodyfat, but that's not even mildly true. Either they don't know how much 30 lbs looks like, or refuse to believe that they're as fat as they actually are.

Additionally, so many people are so overweight now that it has indeed become the norm to be overweight. Those who are now not overweight are a minority - they are abnormal, by definition, and this is skewing the public's perception of what healthy is.

Thanks for this point of view, it's not one i've come across before (UK here) so it's really interesting to hear a skewed ideal like this. Is this a reaction to the California body beautiful ideal?

I agree, that post was rather stupid. Slithering fat Big Macs down your throat is NOT living life. Eating pizza with grease dripping off is NOT living life. Living life is getting out there and enjoying it 24/7. Which I'd have to say I'm a lot closer to now than before by "living life" aka eating garbage. My confidence has skyrocketed, I feel much more alive, and the looks I'm getting from girls is definitely fine. I wake up every morning ready to attack the new day and love every minute of it.

However, according to some people, I'm not living life. Oops, I'm so sorry. Should I start shoving Double Whoppers down my throat to live life? I don't know but apparently I'm not living it :rolleyes: x infinity

Most of society is getting fatter and because its so politically correct (sensitive), a lot of people really gain that weight without really thinking about it. Even if they are getting fat, nobody can really say anything about it anyway without being called a jerk. So they gain a beer belly but that belly is now considered common fare for people. Then they have heart attacks in their 40s and realize that they should have eaten healthier a long time ago. So instead of doing this after my first heart attack, maybe I should start living healthy now?

Surely 'living life' is doing whatever an individual feels is necessary in order to emjoy their life to its fullest. If eating pizza and burgers and indulging more than the rest of us then so be it. If training in order to improve the temple that is our body is what makes us live life more fully then fair enough. There is no single definition of living life that each and every individual should follow, each one has their very own means of doing so.

The sad thing is that a lot of the population of our world are very overweight and their definition of living life to its fullest is not in alignment with members of a community like ours. That is not to say that they don't enjoy life to its fullest in their mind, its just we could argue they are not based on where we were and where we are now.

Its great to observe the emotions that we all attach to things that we have now deemed bad for us. For instance "Slithering fat Big Macs down your throat" has far more effect for us than simply Eating Big Macs. The first sounds the worst by far as everyone connects eating fat things with being fat and mentioning the throat makes it sound glutinous. Not to mention the Slithering. Damm sure its dead ! I am not complaining its a great tool in some peoples psycological arsnel to think of it in this way. The irony is that it works best on people that are already on the right track as they have the basic BIG MAC = Crap idea to build on.

Just an observation

Wilders

Your friends remind me of people that the Finance guru Dave Ramsey often speaks of. People working hard to get out of debt using particular methods will often hear from their friends "Don't do that! Are you Crazy? Dont' pay off your credit card debt...invest your money instead!".

Problem is, most of these people are as broke if not more broke that the person trying. Obviously the point is don't always take the advice of people who aren't in your shoes.
I know many people who have gotten the same flack, including myself at one time regarding losing "too much" weight. People in general get scared when they're out of their comfort zones, which for human behavior reason often involve OTHER people's comfort zones!
As far as being passionate, or going to far with something, only you can ultimately decide or know that.

As for your friends, they sound like they're pretty good in the caring department, just lack a tad in their delivery. But they do seem like friends. If they weren't you be hearing their comments behind your back from someone else. :tu:

Good luck!

Some of you people haven't exactly read my post that well. Where did I say that living is eating a lot of Big Macs?

I am all for living a healthy life, and restricting oneself. All I'm saying (and I keep repeating myself) is: Look at a lot of the posts on this forum. A lot of people feel terribly guilty if they have a "cheat meal" (using that term says enough i.m.o.). This kind of behavior is an indication of an unhealthy obsession in my opinion. Remember I am not pointing the finger to you guys, this goes for me as well.

(and please don't call my posts STUPID, it's an opinion, if it's not yours or you don't get it doesn't make it STUPID)

you were obviously saying that the finer things in life is unhealthy (otherwise we wouldnt deny ourself)

your post was NOT about obssesive behaviour, it was saying how we probably would regret ourself if we dont have cheatmeals, drink alcohol, etc. etc.
(which i not only know doesnt fit me, but i've also yet to meet a single person who ever regret NOT eating a pizza)

The problem is that you seem to think everybody think and likes the same things as you. Whatever you consider one of the finer things in life, i think i can safely say that i would disagree.


And just as Slithering fat Big Macs down your throat makes simply eating Big Macs sounds worse then it probably is, so is the word obsession making hard work and dedication sound bad.

I consider it stupid because you're insisting that we need to eat garbage, even occasionally, to "live life." Sorry, but I'm living life a lot more with the weight lost than when I was "living life" and getting fatter. Apparently I'm wrong though.

If we used the logic of "living life" then we should regularly call in sick from work to "live life" or miss a bill payment to spend the money on something to "enjoy life." Some people like the benefits of working with 100% attendance at their jobs, paying their bills, and achieving a great body. If thats being obsessed, well, I guess I am.

Ask many of the fit people if they're living life and you'll get an unanimous "yes." Ask many of the slobs eating value meals if they're living life and you'll either get a sarcastic "yes" most likely.

That's where the line is in obsession. I figured out what my preferences are in terms of healthy and treats, and I have a good system of integrating those in to my life. After practice, it's easy to remember and stay on track. This is unique to me, but I would guess I'm not that different from most.

Apart from my diet and exercise, living a good life-- to me-- is about the company I keep. My family, my friends, my collegues. It's also about the adventure of the unknown, including new and unusual foods I have not yet tried.

I've noticed that not spending any money on cheap, convenient (read nutritionally bankrupt) food allows me to enjoy the good stuff in very nice restaurants, albeit less frequently. I really like this mode of living much better-- my palate is becoming more sophisiticated and I even notice atmosphere.

I read an article that this is exactly how the French live. They may be annoying sometimes, but they have excellent foods, wine, and a very low incidence of heart disease.

I think that he's merely talking about balance in life. Although it's a pleasure that most people take too far, eating IS one of life's fine pleasures. Almost everybody enjoys eating nice tasty food (stuff thats' not very good for us). Feeling shame and guilt over a large meal with cheesecake for dessert is something you should feel if you do it twice a day, but if you do it once a month and you still obsess over it, you probably need to slow things down a bit and balance them up.

Frankly for me, I don't enjoy food when I'm eating cleanly. How can I pretend that I enjoy it when I'm eating 1800 calories of clean food? It's no fun. I'm merely eating because I have to. You know, the longer I go eating cleanly the more I enjoy some junk, and I have junk every week or so. I feel no guilt, I'm very healthy, and I don't have to deny myself this pleasure all the time.

One of the best pieces of cheesecake I've ever had was a couple of months ago. I was hungry as hell and I had this sara lee stuff from the grocery store. I put some chocolate syrup on it, and I must say it was not merely good: it was delightful. I actually felt like moaning.

I think that he's merely talking about balance in life. etc.

Exactly right! I probably would have misunderstood my own comments and defended the same principles as you guys, a few months ago. It took me some real self discipline to get the body I have now (with which I am happy now). The avatar is a photo of me, and I am proud to say so. I've lost about 30 lbs of fat to get to this point. So I know it takes hard work and dedication to get to your goals. However, lately I'm beginning to realise that I haven't really enjoyed 1 important aspect of life: VERY TASTY (and regretfully unhealthy) food. One should be able to enjoy such a treat occasionally without feeling guilty.

(And some of you might try more feeling the spirit of what other people mean. I.s.o. just flaming that other person’s opinion. There is no need to get all defensive about it when all I am saying is that we should try to live a balanced life. What's wrong about that? If you like to eat chicken breasts and oatmeal all of the time, you should, and I will absolutely not tell you you are wrong, but if you do enjoy a Big Mac, I think you should eat it once in a while)

One should be able to enjoy such a treat occasionally without feeling guilty. Case in point a friend of mine when he was 17 decided finally to lose his weight. He became obsessed with it and, not surprisingly, upset his entire family when he refused to eat even a single piece of chocolate cake for his father's birthday.

I am saying is that we should try to live a balanced life. What's wrong about that? If you like to eat chicken breasts and oatmeal all of the time, you should, and I will absolutely not tell you you are wrong, but if you do enjoy a Big Mac, I think you should eat it once in a while)

Sounds right to me. I personally like BK whoppers, when I eat meat, I wanted it cooked and charred. In fact, one of the good reasons to get fit and build muscles is so you can eat chocolate chip cookie dough every once and awhile without real harm.

IFrankly for me, I don't enjoy food when I'm eating cleanly. How can I pretend that I enjoy it when I'm eating 1800 calories of clean food? It's no fun. I'm merely eating because I have to. You know, the longer I go eating cleanly the more I enjoy some junk, and I have junk every week or so. I feel no guilt, I'm very healthy, and I don't have to deny myself this pleasure all the time.

One of the best pieces of cheesecake I've ever had was a couple of months ago. I was hungry as hell and I had this sara lee stuff from the grocery store. I put some chocolate syrup on it, and I must say it was not merely good: it was delightful. I actually felt like moaning.

For me there' a fine line there. I found that I THINK I'm going to enjoy the cheescake, my brain even tels me I'm enjoying it - then I feel sick half way through (and I don't think that it is mental). I say if you still get enjoyment our of it, eat it. For me though, I've gone the full circle. Every time I think I've got where I want to be and have started eating a few more 'cheat' items I feel worse 3 weeks later. The problem is my brain is so tuned in to thinking that I want that stuff, but my body is saying - simple foods, lean meat, veggies and fruit please.

Example: the other week I had a good friend round for dinner. My wife decided to get pizza. We always have a few beers (I drink faily expensive Belgian ales to a couple is way enough!). I ate 4 slices of pizza and my body regretted it the whole rest of the evening and the next day. My brain just takes a long time to learn what my body really wants.

I'll be quite happy if I don't eat another slice of cheesecake in my life - but I know I will! I'll think it will give me satifaction, but I'll just get a stomach ache.

I think the idea of saying 'when I look back, how will I see what I'm doing now' is a good one. Are you really working toward a better quality of life, or just folloing the crowd?

(and please don't call my posts STUPID, it's an opinion, if it's not yours or you don't get it doesn't make it STUPID)

Here here...

I may have disagreed with peters posts, but that just makes for a more interesting thread.
Life would be boring if we all thought the same

please keep disagreeing with me :D

For me there' a fine line there. I found that I THINK I'm going to enjoy the cheescake, my brain even tels me I'm enjoying it - then I feel sick half way through (and I don't think that it is mental).


Have half a slice? I certainly notice that if i've been off the coke's for a while and i have a can of coke i get the squirts.