These are my beginning pictures. Stats are below:


Height: ~ 6'3"
Weight: ~ 210lbs
Body Fat: Can't get a straight answer, probably in the 20's
Measurements: Don't really care
If you have any input on the use of FatTrack II digital calipers please share ('http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=4978')!

Wow, this was a bit harder than I expected... oh well :o

http://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040204F.jpghttp://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040204S.jpg

My goal is 8% bodyfat, I don't care how long it takes. I want "noticeable improvement" by my birthday (June 9th) so I guess I better get back to work :db: :bb:

Good luck man! You look a lot better than I did when I started, so work hard and you'll get to where you want to be before you know it. Keep us posted on your progress!

:tu:

:tu: good luck to you daveo :D

Yo Daveo,
Welcome to horrible world of posting you photos online! :D I know it was a tough decision, as I did it also. Hey, although you don't necessarily care about measurements they can be a great motivational tool along with weekly photos. In my case, I was getting fairly discouraged with not dropping weight. I tend shed and gain weight very easily but after 3 weeks I had only lost 5 lbs. Normally I would of dropped at least 15 lbs in that time. My only guess is that I'm putting on muscle for almost each pound dropped. Anyway, I took measurements and I'm glad I did. I lost a number of inches from various segments of my body. So even w/ little weight difference the size difference made me stick to my current program. It only takes a few minutes each week. Best of luck to ya!

[QUOTE=daveo]Measurements: Don't really care
QUOTE]

These are my beginning pictures. Stats are below... Well it's been two weeks now and according to my spreadsheet (see below) I've lost 2 lbs. Wow :rolleyes:

Those aren't the kind of gains (err, losses?) that others have seen, so I'm mildly down because of that. However, I think this is a good time to review my diet and see what I can improve. I know I need to cut my sugar intake. Currently the majority of my sugar comes from fruit. After a bit more reading I've learned that fruit is taboo while cutting (my goal, if you couldn't tell), so I'll try restricting fruit to before noon, and then limited to bananas (my fav!)

Because of my crazy school/work schedule my workouts are like this:
Monday: ~ 3:30 PM, Lifting (Pec's, Delt's, Tri's)
Tuesday: ~ 6:00 PM, Cardio (HIIT, Abs)
Wednesday: ~ 3:30 PM, Lifting (Legs)
Thursday: ~ 6:00 PM, Cardio (HIIT, Abs)
Friday: ~ 7:00 PM, Lifting (Back, Bi's)
Saturday: <after I wake up>, Cardio (HIIT, Abs)
Sunday: <after I wake up>, Cardio (HIIT, Abs)

I don't put specific times for the weekends because I'm becoming more sleep deprived as the semester goes on. Some weekends I wake up ~ 7:00 AM, sometimes not until 10:00 AM. Ugh.

As I've said, I could use some help with my diet -- please look at the attached spreadsheet and point out anything that catches your attention. At the present moment (6:30 AM PST) I've forgotten my camera and can't upload my weekly pictures from last night -- whoops. I'll do that tonight when I get home.

NOTE: The spreadsheet was created with the OS X version of Excel, so the fonts may be a little big or you might get funny warnings. Ignore those, it should open without incident.

TAYL.

Daveo- congrats on the commitment to improving your body. Never forget this is a very hard step in the process. Don't be frustrated with your results yet.

For your diet- I would cut out the cereal and bread at 7 p.m. In my opinion that's too many carbs that late at night. Instead aim for a lean protein source (i.e. chicken) and a low GI carb (green veggies) I think this will make a huge difference.

Also, for your breakfast, it seems that you're eating a bit much between 5:30 and 6 a.m. If my math skills are correct, you're taking in ~635 calories for breakfast. Could you seperate these meals more?

Hope this helps.

For your diet- I would cut out the cereal and bread at 7 p.m. In my opinion that's too many carbs that late at night. Instead aim for a lean protein source (i.e. chicken) and a low GI carb (green veggies) I think this will make a huge difference. Sole, thanks for the feedback. :nod:

I've just recently noticed a trend of advice in this direction, and have changed my plans accordingly. I'm starting to take timing into account, which is new. I suppose it's good to get that change done early rather than later! I've decided to be very choosy on carbs & sugar after noon. I think on lifting days I'll have a banana with my protein shake. I've seen other members have decent results with that. Since I'm semi-veggie I'll try shrimp/fish instead of chicken, and broccoli :tu:

Also, for your breakfast, it seems that you're eating a bit much between 5:30 and 6 a.m. If my math skills are correct, you're taking in ~635 calories for breakfast. Could you seperate these meals more? Word. It's the apricots that are killing me there, I think. I looked for the no-calorie Atkins syrup that John mentioned, but have yet to find it. Maybe I'll just use Sweet & Low or some other aspartamine? I've tried stevia, but I think I'd have to dump the whole bottle in :spaz:

I've put up a screenshot ('http://spaz.mootech.net/training/new_diet.jpg') of 2 days I've planned out. Keep in mind the schedule above when looking at the timing. Cardio is around 6:00 PM and lifting is around 3:30 PM. Are these on the right track? Suggestions for changing them?

Wow what program are you using there for the screenshot? is that excel?

Wow what program are you using there for the screenshot? is that excel? That's Excel on OS X ('http://www.apple.com/macosx'). Making Excel look nice and colorful isn't too rough -- look at the cell formatting options.

OS X has a built-in screen capture utility called Grab that's really quite nice. It saves the file as a TIFF, then you can use Preview ('http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/preview/') (which can open just about anything!) to save it as a GIF/JPEG/whatever.

Since OS X is based on PostScript, when you take a normal screen shot (Command-Shift-3), it's saved as a PDF. I think that's cool :tu:

These are my beginning pictures. Stats are below:




Height: ~ 6'3"
Weight: ~ 210lbs
Body Fat: Can't get a straight answer, probably in the 20's
Measurements: Don't really care
...


My goal is 8% bodyfat, I don't care how long it takes. I want "noticeable improvement" by my birthday (June 9th) so I guess I better get back to work :db: :bb:


Oh boy howdy I better get back to work! Got back from the gym yesterday after a trip to see the body fat analysis girl. Luckily I've lost a few pounds since that picture, I've averaged 206 for the last 7 days. (I weigh every morning, then average out for 7 days and call that my weight in most calculations).

23%. Ugh. I was hoping for something a bit lower :( Then again, lower than 25% is better than I honestly expected. If I was higher than that I'd probably shoot myself :rolleyes:

It looks like I've got a lot of work to do. That's OK -- I'll have much better before & after pics, like John :D

Yeah, that's the motivation! It's easy to say "yeah well I was a slob (@ 15% BF) and now I'm @ 8% BF and I rule!" Yeesh, that's nothin!
It's gonna be much more valuable for me to say "Well I was a total pig @ 23% BF, and now I'm freakin' HOT @ 10%, just wait until I'm lower!"

Yeah, that'll be very impressive, like John & Black Beauty :claplow:

I'd like a diet critique, so here's what I'm eating.

Lifting Days
5:30 AM Protein Shake (2 scoops) + vitamins + fiber supplement = 255 calories, 3g fat, 13g carbohydrates, 3g sugar, 44g protein.

7:00 AM "Sausage" pattie + dried apricots = 290 cals, 3g fat, 29g carbohydrates, 15g sugar, 11g protein.

9:00 AM Almonds + Cashews = 330 cals, 27g fat, 14g carbohydrates, 2g sugar, 12g protein.

12:00 PM Rice + Fiber cereal (white rice until I'm out, then brown) = 360 cals, 1g fat, 94g carbohydrates, 0g sugar, 8g protein.

<Class & Lifting workout>

4:30 - 5:00 PM Can of Tuna + Protein Shake + Banana = 536 cals, 6.5g fat, 39g carbohydrates, 17g sugar, 82.5g protein

7:00 PM Broccoli (or some other veggie) + Cottage cheese = 130 cals, 2.5g fat, 10g carbohydrates, 5g sugar, 16g protein

Totals:
1901 Calories
387 calories from fat (20.36% of total calories)
796 calories from carbohydrates (41.87% of calories)
694 calories from protein (36.51% of calories)
39g of sugar

That took forever, I'll get back to work and post my cardio-day diet later. Any thoughts on what's above?

That took forever, I'll get back to work and post my cardio-day diet later. Any thoughts on what's above? Alright, here's the info:

Cardio Days
5:30 AM Protein shake + fiber supplements + vitamins = 225 calories, 3 g of fat, 13g of carbohydrates, 3g of sugar, 44g of protein..

7:00 AM Quick Oats + artificial sweetner = 230 calories, 4.5g of fat, 40.5g of carbohydrates, 1.5g of sugar, 7.5g of protein.

9:00 AM Dried Apricots + cashews = 290 calories, 14g of fat, 35g of carbohydrates, 16g of sugar, 6g of protein.

12:00 PM Can of tuna + rice (white until I run out, then brown) = 475 calories, 2.5g of fat, 70g of carbohydrates, 0g of sugar, 43.5g of protein.

4:30 PM Veggie dog + Cucumber (or other green veggie) = 115 calories, 1g of fat, 14g of carbohydrates, 6g of sugar, 15g of protein.

<Class & Cardio>

7:30 PM (more or less) Shrimp + frozen veggies + 1/2 avocado + protein shake = 587 calories, 18.3g of fat, 22.4g of carbohydrates, 4.2g of sugar, 83.7g of protein.

Totals:
1947 calories
389.7 calories from fat (20.02% of total)
779.6 calories from carbohydrates (40.04% of total)
798.8 calories from protein (41.03% of total)
30.7g of sugar

Any comments?

Lifting Days: I would have that bananna and a protein shake about 30-60 minutes prior to your workout. After you're done working out, I would have another protein shake mixed with some high GI carbs like dextrose. Personally, I go with 48 g of protein and 50 g of carbs for my post-WO shake.

If you're concerned about your carbs, I would also switch to something like a turkey sandwich on whole wheat bread for your 12:00 PM meal. You can find bread that has ~ 10-20ish g of carbs per slice. Depends on your preference.

Well, it's been 49 days since that first picture. I'm down to 198.6 for a total loss of 10.5 lbs so far. That's all well and good except yesterday I went to get my body fat tested and it's still at 23% :mad:

The military method ('http://www.he.net/~zone/prothd2.html') puts me at 21%, averaging the two puts me at 22%.

Have I mostly been losing water? I know my diet's been good. My cardio is just catching up though, could that be the problem? I used musclemedia.com ('http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp')'s HIIT plan to work up to a 23 minute cardio session with 15 HIIT intervals lasting 30 seconds each. That is:
4 minutes warm-up
30 seconds hard (90% max HR)
30 seconds soft (60% max HR)
... repeat 14 more times ...
4 minutes cool-down

BTW, that really is 90% max HR according to my Polar HRM. Since I'm 23 my naive max HR = 220 - 23 = 197. 197 * .90 = 177. During the hard intervals I'll get up to 180 sometimes, and as low as 175. I think that's close enough to 90%.

Should I change up my workout some, or have I just been fooling myself into thinking I've been doing enough cardio for the past ~ 2 months? This is pretty discouraging :d_frown:

You sound like your happy with the weight loss, but concerned about BF %. I can relate. I don't trust the accuracy of the various methods of testing BF.
How is your lifting going? I've started to take the attitude that while cutting, as long as my lifting weight is staying the same in some muscle groups or even increasing in others, I'm making progress while losing weight.

How is your lifting going? I've started to take the attitude that while cutting, as long as my lifting weight is staying the same in some muscle groups or even increasing in others, I'm making progress while losing weight. Lifting is going pretty well. I've seen increases across the board (newbie gains) which is good. I feel stronger, for whatever that's worth.

Do I have unrealistic expectations for the accuracy of these measurments? She did the 3-point measurment: quad, side, top of chest. What's the typical range of error? I've heard +- 5% which is appalling by my standards -- that's down right quackery!

Lifting is going pretty well. I've seen increases across the board (newbie gains) which is good. I feel stronger, for whatever that's worth.

For me, it's worth alot!
I didn't take BF measurements when I started - I lost 40 pounds, kept consistent with cardio and lifting. I just measured BF% using various methods (calipers, mybodycomp.com, military) - and it came out anywhere from 16% to 20%. This really discouraged me, so now I'm taking the "out of sight, out of mind" approach to BF - and focusing on weightloss and strength.
I'm sure some will disagree and say that measuring BF is very important, but I feel I'm going to ignore it for awhile.

YOU CAN DO IT DAVEO! :gl:

From what I can see Daveo you are doing all the right things. Just keep doing what your doing and the results will come.

If I had to be picky I might say that you are eating a little bit too little. At 6'3 your a big guy. I'm 5'8 and the lowest I eat is 1900 cals a day. I'd say 2200 would be better but as with everything its just an estimate and that might not even be the prob. It may be worth looking if after 6 weeks you still dont make suitable progress.

Also its only a small point but what is with the dried apricots? High GI and you dont seem to be taking them after a workout.

You know what your doing so keep it up :tu:

Marcus :tucool:

Also its only a small point but what is with the dried apricots? High GI and you dont seem to be taking them after a workout.

They don't have a lot of calories so the high gi rating isn't really a problem. They contain beta-carotene and lycopene which protect LDL cholesterol from oxidation thus helping to prevent heart disease. Also they're a great source of fiber.

If I had to be picky I might say that you are eating a little bit too little. At 6'3 your a big guy. I'm 5'8 and the lowest I eat is 1900 cals a day. I'd say 2200 would be better but as with everything its just an estimate and that might not even be the prob. It may be worth looking if after 6 weeks you still dont make suitable progress. I've been following the (body weight in lbs * 10) - X rule. The BMR calculations I've seen seem too complicated to be good estimates, IMO. Then again "for every problem there is a simple, elegant, and wrong answer", so who knows :confused:

I'm seeing the weight come off, just not as much of it as fat as I'd expected according to the BF measurments: about 4lbs lean & 4lbs fat. I've decided to give this another month. If there's still no changes at that point I'll try bumping the calories. I'm losing overall weight pretty well, it's just the distribution of fat/lean that I'm concerned about.


Also its only a small point but what is with the dried apricots? High GI and you dont seem to be taking them after a workout. Yeah, plain oatmeal (in water, not milk!) is nasty and those help :)
I couldn't find any Atkins syrup like John uses, and the artificial sweetners don't help much unless you dump in a bucket of it. Then again I know how to adapt and could probably get used to it and drop them. I think I read somewhere (can't remember the source) that high GI in the morning isn't as bad as high GI at other times. Also, FWIW those make up the bulk of my sugar intake: I'm averaging 36g/day, and they're pretty rich in potassium, which I worry about getting enough of.


You know what your doing so keep it up :tu: Thanks. That means a lot :nod:

Side note: I'm quite pleased that I continually need less assistance doing dips :claphigh:

quite simply i find accuracy for lbm and BF% to be just crap. I try not to let it bother me becuase everytime i test it, by various means, i get a bunch of different results, i'm at about 4% variance on % and 5kg for LBM.

Go with the str gains and weight loss, along with abdomen measurements and how clothes are fitting. Keep checking lbm/bf % but just be aware it's way inaccurate so you really need a longer period to see patterns.

Oh boy, it's time for a 2 month update. Month 1 just flew by and I didn't notice any change. I happen to know myself well enough that I need to see big changes to feel good. You know the type? I don't scratch my nose right when it itches, I wait until I go nuts. That way the relief is that much better.

To get a few things out of the way:

The pictures are at different times of the day, on different days
The lighting is terrible in both sets -- I'm totally washed out
The camer angle & distance is different in both sets
I'm not photgenic ;)
Alright, enough stalling.

Better? Worse? No change?

http://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040204F.jpghttp://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040403F.jpg
http://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040204S.jpghttp://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040403S.jpg

For those of you who said "no change" I have one thing to point out: I was pushing 38" pants when I started. I found an old pair of 36" and tried them on today -- they fit PERFECTLY. That made my 2 months seem totally worth while :)

Other stats:

BF: 23% - 19-20%
Weight: 210 - 195lbs
Height: Remains constant at 6' even (I never measured before)
Waist: 38" - 36"
Biceps: emerging, slowly
Shoulders: ditto
Calves & quads: showing up nicely, but not enough to warrant a photo. Sorry ladies ;)
My lifting has gotten much better: I need less assist and can push more weight. I've graduated to "full" HIIT (23 minutes total, 15 intervals of 30sec on 30sec off). I now mix it up with 45 min up hill (max incline) walk (3 mph) when I have time.

I look forward to comments & tips! Criticize as you see fit.

Oh boy, it's time for a 2 month update. Month 1 just flew by and I didn't notice any change. I happen to know myself well enough that I need to see big changes to feel good. You know the type? I don't scratch my nose right when it itches, I wait until I go nuts. That way the relief is that much better.

To get a few things out of the way:

The pictures are at different times of the day, on different days
The lighting is terrible in both sets -- I'm totally washed out
The camer angle & distance is different in both sets
I'm not photgenic ;)
Alright, enough stalling.

Better? Worse? No change?

http://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040204F.jpghttp://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040403F.jpg
http://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040204S.jpghttp://spaz.mootech.net/training/20040403S.jpg

For those of you who said "no change" I have one thing to point out: I was pushing 38" pants when I started. I found an old pair of 36" and tried them on today -- they fit PERFECTLY. That made my 2 months seem totally worth while :)

Other stats:

BF: 23% - 19-20%
Weight: 210 - 195lbs
Height: Remains constant at 6' even (I never measured before)
Waist: 38" - 36"
Biceps: emerging, slowly
Shoulders: ditto
Calves & quads: showing up nicely, but not enough to warrant a photo. Sorry ladies ;)
My lifting has gotten much better: I need less assist and can push more weight. I've graduated to "full" HIIT (23 minutes total, 15 intervals of 30sec on 30sec off). I now mix it up with 45 min up hill (max incline) walk (3 mph) when I have time.

I look forward to comments & tips! Criticize as you see fit.

Wow dude! That's some crazy progress man...it's exciting!! :D But what I find more exciting is the potential that you have man. You've got really wide shoulder imo and a great body to put muscle on. Keep on doing what you're doing b/c it's working!!

:gl:

Better? Worse? No change?

a noticeable change for the better I'd say. a lot less gut and you're on the way to having just the one chin.

I'm doing basically the same thing though my rate of change has been ploddingly slow (see whingy post in the Weight Training forum which I'm desperate for someone much smarter than I am about this stuff to analyze). maybe this weekend I'll take another pic for comparison. I sure feel lots stronger and better overall but dammit...

oops, sorry, this isn't about me :)

wow! your progress is really exciting! You and me are int he same boat (I was 6'3" 220lbs when i started) but i dont have any starting pics. Ill post some pics pretty soon of my progress, but me and you are strikingly similar. :)

im excited to see how we both turn out. keep up the good work! you look awesome :spaz:

Thanks a lot for the feedback :D

Brice: shoulders + back due to massive amounts of swimming during the formative years. Once I get a pool near by (walking/biking distance) I'm 99% sure I'll drop the HIIT and other forms of cardio and just swim until I can't get my hands up to the steering wheel :D

born sleepy: Take the pictures! I cannot emphasize enough how much they help. How dumb do you think I felt putting up the first set with no "after"? :o I might end up printing out a small copy of that first one when I'm done cutting and stick it in my wallet :)

Marcman: Like I said, I've only ever been 6'. I managed to get 6'3" stuck in my head somewhere. Anyway, get some pics taken (even if you don't post) and we can have a race ;)

Great progress daveo! Only 2 months? wow. Very big changes :tucool:

:claphigh: :claphigh: :claphigh: :claphigh: :claphigh: :claphigh: :claphigh: :tu:

I see big improvements in your face, neck, and waist area. It's a pretty drastic change. :tucool:

Swimming is great exercise but I don't know how effective it is at fot loss. :confused: I've known some great swimmers who had reasonably high bodyfat %'s no matter how hard they trained-and some were 1500m champions so they did massive amounts of cardio. I don't know what it is about swimming-it's an awesome cardio workout, stretches you out, works the shoulders and back and abs, but for some reason doesn't burn fat well for many people. There have been numerous studies on it too so I'm not just basing this on anecdotal evidence. Swimming a lot must raise the metabolism, but maybe because you don't have to work so hard to cool your body(the water is doing that for you) then the body doesn't burn as many calories during the workout?

If I had your physique I would focus on a solid weight training routine (which you have), and I would get my cardio from the stairmaster, running, cycling, or even boxing/kickboxing.

You have a huge ribcage which would provide the foundation for a big chest, back, and shoulders. :flex:

you look like you've lost about 30lb, seriously. I've lost 25 so far and you show much better improvement than i do, your bellybutton was in a direct line down from your nipples, now it's about an inch and a half inwards, and your face shows a huge difference, it's much leaner and it's not just becuase of the new hair cut and the smile.

keep up the good work :)

Swimming is great exercise but I don't know how effective it is at fot loss. :confused: It's effective enough. For one summer (between Jr & Sr year in High School) I swam 2hrs 5 days a week. I had a 34" waist that summer. It may not be the fastest, but it works pretty damn well :)

What I really meant was that I'm happiest when I can swim at my leisure. Most of the concerns about my body drop away at that point. I'd lose motivation and any sense of urgency :)


If I had your physique I would focus on a solid weight training routine (which you have), and I would get my cardio from the stairmaster, running, cycling, or even boxing/kickboxing. I'm switch-hitting with the bike & walking. So far so good!


You have a huge ribcage... Tell me about it. Some days it drives me nuts!

Great job so far! I can easily see the difference at your waistline. It's a dramatic change in 2 months.

:claphigh: