Hi, I was wondering about something. I can buy cans of tuna for under $0.50 each, which is practically all protein. The protein in tuna is by far cheaper per gram than any protein supplement that I have seen on the market, plus I like the taste of tuna.

I was wondering if using just canned tuna (in water) as my protein supplement would be good, or if there is some added benefit that the protein supplements have that tuna does not have. Does anyone know what the differences are, and if the protein supplements are really worth paying almost twice the amount per gram of protein than what tuna provides?

Hi, I was wondering about something. I can buy cans of tuna for under $0.50 each, which is practically all protein. The protein in tuna is by far cheaper per gram than any protein supplement that I have seen on the market, plus I like the taste of tuna.

I was wondering if using just canned tuna (in water) as my protein supplement would be good, or if there is some added benefit that the protein supplements have that tuna does not have. Does anyone know what the differences are, and if the protein supplements are really worth paying almost twice the amount per gram of protein than what tuna provides?

While Tuna is a great source of protein, the protein powders also have their benefits. I think the most important reason is that liquid protein is digested much faster than any solid protein. Also, the suppliments have different types of protein that do different things. For example, if you get a WHEY protein suppliment...whey is the fastest digesting protein, this should be taken post workout. If you get a Blend protein suppliment.... a blend is a mix of different protein geared to be slow releasing, this could be taken before bed so that you digest the protein throught the night. I eat plenty of tuna, so dont get me wrong...but i think the use of both would be optimal.

The only difference I know is that the different types of protein act differently to help repair the muscles. for instance, whey protein is good right after a workout because it goes straight to the muscle. but, a different type of protein would be good to take right before bed so it keeps feeding the muscles protein over an extended period of time.....
but whey protein isn't real expensive, and i don't think buying cans of tuna would be much cheaper.

I think you would be fine using tuna as your "protein suppliment". The difference between whey and tuna is that whey digests faster.

Where do you get cans of tuna for 50 cents? Is it decent tuna, that's so cheap! Is it 6 oz?

Don't forget about the mercury and other toxins in tuna. You probably don't want to eat too much of it. I think >3-4 cans a week and you're getting into dangerous territory.

Don't forget about the mercury and other toxins in tuna. You probably don't want to eat too much of it. I think >3-4 cans a week and you're getting into dangerous territory.

Unless you are pregnant or a newborn, I'm not sure I'd worry too much about the mercury in tuna.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/admehg3.html
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html


If you've got some articles that specificly show a link between health problems and the mercury in tuna for healthy middle-aged males, I'd be glad to see it.

I can get Starkist tuna(pink) for $.49 per 6oz can. I have since upgraded to the Starkist white albacore tuna which I think is much better. $1.69 for a 3.5 serving ez pouch.

The only difference I know is that the different types of protein act differently to help repair the muscles. for instance, whey protein is good right after a workout because it goes straight to the muscle. but, a different type of protein would be good to take right before bed so it keeps feeding the muscles protein over an extended period of time.....
but whey protein isn't real expensive, and i don't think buying cans of tuna would be much cheaper.

Is there some evidence to suggest whey goes straight to the muscle? Or is this what the articles say put out by the manufacturers who want to sell you whey? Whey IS rapidly digested. In fact, it is so rapidly digested, that much of it is oxidized. This means instead of being used for tissue repair, it is converted to sugars and burned for energy.

Jeremy

Hi, I was wondering about something. I can buy cans of tuna for under $0.50 each, which is practically all protein. The protein in tuna is by far cheaper per gram than any protein supplement that I have seen on the market, plus I like the taste of tuna.

I was wondering if using just canned tuna (in water) as my protein supplement would be good, or if there is some added benefit that the protein supplements have that tuna does not have. Does anyone know what the differences are, and if the protein supplements are really worth paying almost twice the amount per gram of protein than what tuna provides?

Tuna is a fine protein to supplement with. Here's the thing ... if you can get all of your protein requirements in with whole foods, by all means do it. It is the best way to go.

It is when you cannot eat more, i.e. get stuffed, with whole proteins, or are at a job or in some situation where you can't get the whole foods, that a shake comes in handy to add extra proteins.

The idea that protein powders themselves benefit beyond whole foods is simply a very successful marketing ploy from the supplement industry. You have so many people convinced that protein powders are the key to gaining muscle, etc, when bodybuilders are paid to endorse certain proteins, entire magazines are funded by supplement companies that sell proteins, and websites with articles are also backed by those supplement companies, so a lot of seemingly well-meaning articles are actually content used to draw visitors in order to upsell products.

If you look at the history of bodybuilding, going back to the 1900s and coming to present times, you'll see that there are plenty of incredible physiques built before the 70s, when the dairy industry was fined by the federal government for dumping "toxic" waste (i.e. whey) and had to scramble to find a way to inexpensively dispose of this byproduct from the manufacture of cheeses. They came up with a brilliant plan and you can see the results today - people still are brainwashed into saying whey is the best protein, when in fact NO protein is superior, it is the variety of proteins you get throughout the day that count.

Just because whey is a waste product in the manufacture of cheese does not mean it is a bad protein. It certainly has its effects. I agree it is best taken post-workout, but not because of any anabolic effects. The truth is, protein turnover is a process that takes DAYS so to think that having some surge of protein will suddenly build muscle post-workout is simply buying into media hype. The truth is that during training, you use something called branched-chain amino acids for energy (up to 20% of your calories come from these) so supplying them after a workout (whey is rich with BCAAs) can replenish that supply. The thing is, whey is so rapidly ingested that the majority is more than likely oxidized and burned for energy. There are health benefits - i.e. it has been shown to boost the immune system and perhaps help the body with its glutamine supply as well - so I'm not writing it off, just mentioning it is not the holy grail that it is made out to be.

Jeremy

The truth is that during training, you use something called branched-chain amino acids for energy (up to 20% of your calories come from these) so supplying them after a workout (whey is rich with BCAAs) can replenish that supply.

Anybody have any good sources of reading with regards to BCAA's? I read an article on them in a fitness mag not all that long ago and it confused me more than anything...

Anybody have any good sources of reading with regards to BCAA's? I read an article on them in a fitness mag not all that long ago and it confused me more than anything...

Here ya go (http://www.getbig.com/articles/protein.htm)

Just a read to back up what Jeremy posted above...

Protein Requirements For Exercisers and Specialized Formulas (Whey Products)

Rationale for Protein Supplementation

Because of protein's structure and function, this may be the easiest supplement to rationalize. But in a healthy population, protein supplementation is difficult to defend, at least in its general use among athletes. The concept that "more is better" is the conventional thinking of many users of protein supplements, especially in the bodybuilding community. Athletes tend to base their diet decisions on nutritional advice from their peers, nonscientific mentors, heroes, or idols-rather than peer-reviewed, scientific literature.

No evidence has shown a constant, linear increase in muscle mass or performance, related to protein intake. Thus, there is a physiological threshold for incorporating dietary protein into fat-free mass (FFM), or for using protein as an immediate energy substrate.

Fat-free mass (FFM) includes all portions of body tissues that do not contain fat: skeletal bones and muscles, skin, organs, and body water, as well as hair, blood, and lymph. In clinical studies, an increase in FFM usually equals an increase in skeletal muscle. Energy is the capacity to do work. The energy in food is chemical energy, which can be converted to mechanical, electrical, or heat energy.

Exercise intensity and mode, goals, type of protein and total energy intake-singularly or in any combination-influence the individual requirements for optimal protein intake. There are several reasons for ingesting supplemental protein.

To enhance recovery after exercise. One defensible reason to ingest supplemental protein is to get amino acids quickly into the blood following exercise. Research using protein and carbohydrate supplements before and after weight training has shown an enhancement of anabolic hormones compared to a non-supplemented state. Theoretically, this would enhance recovery, allowing the body to spend more time on building muscle rather than repair.

In weight reduction programs. Protein supplements replace whole food proteins to eliminate unwanted calories in order to maintain equal or positive nitrogen balance during body fat reduction as cosmetic athletes must do to compete.

Convenience. Protein supplements are used in situations when whole food is not available or not an option as with early morning workouts.

Cost. Marketers often purport lower cost per gram of nitrogen when compared to foods.

Effect of exercise on protein needs. As early as 1981, scientists Lemon and Nagle studied the effect of exercise on protein requirements. Following this review, scientists began to recommend protein intakes for athletes above the RDA. While the effect of exercise on protein metabolism was found to vary by exercise type, protein can supply from 4% to 10% of exercise energy needs. Exercise increases the oxidation of amino acids and the rate of protein turnover in lean body mass during recovery.

Furthermore, cardiorespiratory exercise alone contributes to an increase in protein requirements, 594-605 as does resistance training. Since endurance and strength training modes of exercise elicit different morphological adaptations-protein needs, when participating in both activities, may be greater than the highest recommendation for strength training. 609,610

Metabolism refers to the utilization of nutrients in the body-the process, by which substances come into the body and the rate that they are utilized. Lean body mass (LBM) includes all skeletal bones and muscles, skin, organs, and body water, as well as hair, blood, and lymph.

Effect of negative energy balance on protein requirements. For athletes and others pursuing body fat reduction, body fat loss goals require that a caloric deficit be maintained until the goal is reached. These individuals seek to modify their body composition. During a negative energy balance, amino acids are used to assist in energy production.

Body composition is the percentage of the body composed of fat vs. lean body mass. Body composition consists of specific categories, such as the percentage of bone mineral, body water, and hair.

In athletes, anaerobic or aerobic exercise depletes glycogen, causing an increase in gluconeogenesis. Glycogen is the principal storage form of carbohydrate energy (glucose), which is reserved in muscles and in the liver. Gluconeogenesis is the formation of glucose from fatty acids and proteins rather than from carbohydrates.

The increase in gluconeogenesis is supported by the release of branched chain and other amino acids from structural proteins in order to maintain glucose homeostasis during exercise. The hypocaloric diet establishes less than optimal glycogen stores-and when combined with increased glycogen demand during exercise-protein's energy utilization is increased. The loss of lean body mass in sedentary persons during a negative energy balance can be reduced by increasing the amount of protein in the diet, leading to a more rapid return to nitrogen balance.

Collectively, these studies show an increase in protein utilization during a hypocaloric diet, with effects that can be exacerbated by exercise.

Protein and the bodybuilder. Bodybuilders during energy balance (off-season) should follow the same protein recommendations as strength athletes. However, during negative energy balance enroute to competition-level body fat, protein requirements may dramatically increase.

To reach competitive levels of body fat, calorie intake is continually lowered while exercise-including cardiorespiratory, weight training and posing-is increased. (Competitive levels of body fat are generally unhealthy and impossible to maintain for prolonged periods.)

Each component of this regime may have additive effects on protein requirements. The body's survival mechanisms, related to increases in energy expenditure and decreases in food supply, are probably highly active during this period, forcing a continued reduction in food intake to achieve the goal. However, because of protein's anabolic requirements, protein cannot be lowered. In fact, protein intake may have to be increased in the final few weeks before competition.

During this period, the body must have an option in the use of available food for energy or muscle support. The body does not have a choice with dietary carbohydrates or fats, making them the only dispensable calories. Therefore, protein intake could be dramatically increased to theoretically lessen the obligatory loss of lean tissue during these drastic measures. It is quite common to see these athletes consuming the majority of their calories from protein in the final weeks before competition. However, during the off season, when athletes returned to normal food intake (protein at anabolic requirements and energy needs met primarily with carbohydrate and fats) and energy balance-a better anabolic environment would exist compared to maintaining this high protein intake all year.

Effect of protein on satiety. Protein's role in satiety is an important consideration. As with all macronutrients, protein activates specific satiety mechanisms and may be more satiating than fats and carbohydrates. Protein-induced suppression of food intake in animals and humans is greater than its energy content alone. This suggests that protein has a direct effect on satiety. In studies of rats and humans, a pre-load of protein suppressed their food intake for several hours, and to a greater extent, a similar energy load of fat and carbohydrate.

Athletes seeking fat loss may benefit from the satiating properties of protein. Individual digestive physiology may help determine comfort with different percentages of the macronutrients. Macronutrients are nutrients that are ingested in large quantities on a regular basis. They include proteins, carbohydrates, fats, and water. All the macronutrients are necessary to normal functions.

Macronutrient intake may include protein intake above recommendations (but within healthful guidelines) in order to feel satiated and energized daily. This would assist athletes in program adherence. In summary, protein's effects on well being and satiety may assist athletes in complying with the energy intake needed for their goals.

Whey Protein Products

Research on Specialized Protein Formulas

In recent years, marketers' focus on protein products has been to build "the perfect protein". Their objective has been an enhancement of protein synthesis, compared to food protein or standard protein supplements.

Whey protein hydrolysates are the in-vogue protein product. Special processing of whey protein-which has the highest biological value of any protein-yields small peptides that are absorbed faster into the blood stream than free-form amino acids. 644 In addition, these special blends have been found to provide greater nitrogen retention and protein synthesis in starved animals, 645,646 burn patients, 647 and during enteral feeding of hospitalized patients, 648 when compared to other proteins. The amino acid profile of whey protein (very high in branched-chain amino acids)-combined with a manufacturing process that yields the ideal peptide lengths for rapid absorption-probably gives this special blend its benefits to injured, diseased, or starved recipients. The relevance of this to well-fed, healthy athletes is probably non-existent. However, for bodybuilders, wrestlers, or other weight-conscious athletes preparing for competition (these athletes are generally underfed and overtrained at this point), these formulas offer a viable way to meet requirements with fewer calories.

Summary

Exercise mode and intensity, current athletic condition, energy intake, goals, and type of protein can affect protein requirements additively. The timing of available amino acids (pre- and post-training), reduction of calories (while sparing nitrogen losses), convenience, and possibly cost-they are all defensible conditions for protein supplements to be a benefit. On the other hand, if athletes meet their requirements with food, and they maintain their desired body fat levels-no substantial evidence exists that (1) using protein supplements to replace food or (2) increasing protein intake above requirements-will enhance performance or adult skeletal muscle hypertrophy

Protein Bioavailability and Rating may also be a legitimate reason to look into whey supplementation.

http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/proteinrating.html

Not all proteins are created equal...

Anybody have any good sources of reading with regards to BCAA's? I read an article on them in a fitness mag not all that long ago and it confused me more than anything...

I don't have any specific sources, but essentially these are amino acids that have a structure which allows the body to quickly deaminate them (remove the nitrogen part) and use them as energy. The demand for these increases during intense, anaerobic training such as weight lifting, sprints, bouts during basketball games, etc.

The myth that low carb advocates love to spread is that if you restrict carbs, your body is "forced" into burning fat. The reality is that during intense training, up to 20% of your caloric needs are met by oxidation of protein. This isn't a bad thing. Again, you'd think this means you are simply burning muscle tissue. Not true. Your amino acids are circulated in your blood stream in a tightly regulated "bank" called the amino acid pool. As you consume foods throughout the day, amino acids are deposited into the bank, and as your demand for these increases, they are withdrawn. This is why it is another outdated myth that you must eat a complete protein at every meal - in reality, you could eat rice this morning and beans in the evening and be fine.

Because the demands for specific amino acids such as glutamine and branched-chain amino acids are so high during intense training, it makes since to replenish this. Whey is a good supplier of both, and the best all-natural source of BCAAs is egg whites.

I'm not bunking getting quality proteins in during or after training. My point is simply most people over do it, thinking more is better, and most people mistakenly believe this leads to muscle growth. What it leads to is potentially faster recovery, so your body can focus on growth, not in the hours immediately following training but during the diurnal cycles that last for days AFTER the training session.

Jeremy

Where do you get cans of tuna for 50 cents? Is it decent tuna, that's so cheap! Is it 6 oz?

Bumblebee tuna from Sams, buy it in the packs of 12 for under $6. :D It is not albacore, but I like it.

Please see http://www.allthewhey.com/compare.html - 2nd and 3rd tables.