At our local BX they have an incredible deal on both Centrum and Century multivitamins. Since they are both well-priced (I am on a budget) I was thinking of getting them. How good are either of these brands? How good for someone with limited cash?

At our local BX they have an incredible deal on both Centrum and Century multivitamins. Since they are both well-priced (I am on a budget) I was thinking of getting them. How good are either of these brands? How good for someone with limited cash?

I wouldn't recommend those. Centrum scores about 4.1% out of 100% for providing the spectrum of what you need, according to Lyle MacDonald's Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements.

Century doesn't do much better.

Keep in mind that multivitamins that shoot for 100% of the DRV are going to be a BAD choice. Why? Because this is a bare minimum for survival, and doesn't take into account interactions. Quality vitamins will probably never fall exactly 100% except for a few, because they are adjusting other nutrients up or down based on what research shows is healthy and also based on how they interact.

I would be skeptical of any one-a-day. The half life of some vitamins in your body is only a few hours, so if you are only taking one-a-day, you are losing out on some of those for the most part of the day. This is why many of the higher quality brands have them split out into AM and PM packets, or individual bottles that you can take throughout the day.

Finally, most vitamins will only go for what the FDA has established a DRV for so they can brag about the 100% on their label. Good companies will go beyond that to not what the FDA has established a DRV, but rather what science has established is healthy. So ones that are quality will also contain one or many of the following: CoQ10, alpha lipoic acid, vandyl sulfate, phenolic compounds, grapeseed extract, bioflavanoids, inositol, choline, etc.

Hope that helps ... instead of blowing $10 on a cheap multi, I would spend it on fruit and vegetables and take advantage of what nature has to offer, until you can afford a quality pharmaceutical grade multi.

Jeremy Likness

What reasonably priced multi-vitamin would you recommend instead? I'm almost to the point of needing new vitamins. Thanks.

What reasonably priced multi-vitamin would you recommend instead? I'm almost to the point of needing new vitamins. Thanks.

I spoke to this in a different thread ... basically, the one I recommend, that I use, my wife, my children, my mother, my grandmother, etc etc is one I sell, so there is bias. I also don't know what you mean by "reasonably priced."

My experience is that people think spending $30 / month on cable and $50 / month on high speed internet and $20 / month on CDs and $200 / month on eating out is reasonable, but their vitamin (which is more important than all of the above) should be $5 / month. I can't compete with that ... that is cost-conscious thoughts, rather than value-conscious thoughts.

My grandmother, who was value conscious, used to spend nearly $100 on her vitamins. I was able to save her that because the multi we have combines into one product what many people need to take several different products to achieve.

The vitamins I have are $39.95 / month supply before taxes and shipping. If that is reasonable to you, send me a private message and I'll send over more details.

Jeremy

Step back and think about this a second... our evolutionary predecessors didn't have the advantage of pharmaceutical grade multi-vitamins yet they survived just fine. Granted, they weren't into bodybuilding, but they survived.

Please expound on this... eating the reasonably healthy diets that most of us (I hope) here eat, can you expound on how it is possible that despite our dietary vigilance, we are so short of the necessary vitamin intake that a high-end multi-vitamin is required? One could easily conclude that if we're eating healthy food and exercising, your local supermarket shelf could fill the void with a Centrum-type multi-vitamin.

I understand your point as to the "one-a-day" concept being inherently flawed in that some vitamins have a short-lived bioavailability to the body once ingested. Certain vitamins would only be available for very short periods of time leaving the rest of the day unfulfilled in the context of that one vitamin. Perhaps another question is this: what vitamins have very short bioavailablilties? Which of those vitamins are important enough to daily functioning and bodybuilding that might necessitate an investment in a high-quality multi-dose, multi-vitamin?

Personally, I have a hard enough time getting in my meals throughout the average workday - I'm far too busy to be bothered by taking separate packets of vitamins at different times (as has been the case with vitamin systems I've been asked to evaluate in the past) to keep certain vitamins more readily bioavailable.

In the context of a healthy diet and exercise program and in conjunction with a good-old standby vitamin akin to what's available at (insert grocery store here), isn't that enough? What do you truly gain by investing in higher-end multi-vitamins over say, Centrum or your average grocery store brand? Is their purity or quality control really that poor?

As usual... apologies for the length, but when I get to thinking while typing... this happens.

-R

Step back and think about this a second... our evolutionary predecessors didn't have the advantage of pharmaceutical grade multi-vitamins yet they survived just fine. Granted, they weren't into bodybuilding, but they survived.

Please expound on this... eating the reasonably healthy diets that most of us (I hope) here eat, can you expound on how it is possible that despite our dietary vigilance, we are so short of the necessary vitamin intake that a high-end multi-vitamin is required? One could easily conclude that if we're eating healthy food and exercising, your local supermarket shelf could fill the void with a Centrum-type multi-vitamin.

I understand your point as to the "one-a-day" concept being inherently flawed in that some vitamins have a short-lived bioavailability to the body once ingested. Certain vitamins would only be available for very short periods of time leaving the rest of the day unfulfilled in the context of that one vitamin. Perhaps another question is this: what vitamins have very short bioavailablilties? Which of those vitamins are important enough to daily functioning and bodybuilding that might necessitate an investment in a high-quality multi-dose, multi-vitamin?

Personally, I have a hard enough time getting in my meals throughout the average workday - I'm far too busy to be bothered by taking separate packets of vitamins at different times (as has been the case with vitamin systems I've been asked to evaluate in the past) to keep certain vitamins more readily bioavailable.

In the context of a healthy diet and exercise program and in conjunction with a good-old standby vitamin akin to what's available at (insert grocery store here), isn't that enough? What do you truly gain by investing in higher-end multi-vitamins over say, Centrum or your average grocery store brand? Is their purity or quality control really that poor?

As usual... apologies for the length, but when I get to thinking while typing... this happens.

-R

This is kind of along the lines of what I was wondering. I'm not looking for a multi to provide ALL of what I need for a daily requirement of vitamins so much as I am looking to boost what vitamins I already get. I eat a very balanced diet with plenty of fruits and veggies every day. Basically, I am looking for a multi to help bridge the gaps in whatever vitamins I might need a little more of. I'm looking for a multi to simply supplement my healthy diet.

Step back and think about this a second... our evolutionary predecessors didn't have the advantage of pharmaceutical grade multi-vitamins yet they survived just fine. Granted, they weren't into bodybuilding, but they survived.

I agree ... I used to think the exact same way, and it really isn't my position to try to change those beliefs. I think you have a great line of reasoning. I can only share what changed my own thoughts and beliefs. For example, when obtaining my Specialist in Performance Nutrition certification, I learned these reasons supplements can be important:

1. People today don't chew well enough and eat too fast. Those evolutionary partners you were talking about had more time to enjoy their meals.

2. Hot liquids were only introduced into our diets in the past thousands of years after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, and these can cause inflammation of digestive linings, drop secretion of digestive fluids and inhibit uptake of vitamins and minerals

3. Alcohol is a recent phenomenon in our evolutionary history and can affect much of our digestion and metabolism. In fact, it is well known that alcoholics are severely deficient in many nutrients. Occassional drinkers suffer the same fat to just a lower extent.

4. Smoking - even second-hand smoke - causes similar issues

5. Overcooking - cooking is a recent addition to our evolution, and it is well-known and documented that cooking destroys (via oxidation) heat succeptible vitamins such as B, C, and E groups. Boiling vegetables removes B and C groups as well as destroys many minerals. Microwave radiation destroys some such as vitamin B6.

6. Food processing - freezing food can significantly reduce vitamin E levels. Vitamins B1 and C are also greatly diminished during food processing.

7. "Convenience diets" depend on highly refined foods that are stripped of nutrients

8. Antibiotics while invaluable in fighting infection also fight off healthy bacteria/fauna in the gut which help us ingest certain nutrients

9. Food allergies can force individuals to omit entire foods groups and thus groups of valuable vitamins and minerals

10. Crop nutrient losses - food crops are depleted due to poor soil management. One U.S. government study showed a 68% decline in levels of essential minerals in crops over a 4 year period!

11. Stress - we undergo much more stress today than even centuries ago. This increases the body's requirements for Vitamins B2, B5, B6, and C.

12. Air pollution increases requirements for Vitamin E.

13. Oral contraceptives decrease absorption of folic acid and increase needs for vitamins B6 and C and possibly zinc and riboflavin

14. Lack of sunlight creates greater demands for Vitamin D

15. Bio-inviduality means there are wild fluctatuions from person to person relative to the minimum needs established by the RDA

16. Low body reserves - the body only stores certain levels of certain nutrients. Canadian autopsy data shows that up to 30% of the population has reserves of Vitamin A so low as to be considered at risk

17. Athletes and people who train consume more food than the norm and also place their bodies under stress which increases their demand for nutrients

18. A recent study of thousands of individuals found that not a single one received 100% of ALL daily vitamins and minerals per the low-level RDA .. in other words, every single person was deficient in at least one vitamin or mineral despite how low the DRVs are set


Please expound on this... eating the reasonably healthy diets that most of us (I hope) here eat, can you expound on how it is possible that despite our dietary vigilance, we are so short of the necessary vitamin intake that a high-end multi-vitamin is required? One could easily conclude that if we're eating healthy food and exercising, your local supermarket shelf could fill the void with a Centrum-type multi-vitamin.

Logic would seem to dictate that, but even the Journal of the American Medical Association released a statement that even in healthy adults, a multivitamin appears to protect against many degenerative diseases. This goes back to the evolution argument. In our past, we died from external causes - hunting, natural disaster, etc before we reached older age. The life expectancy is decades higher than it was just centuries ago. This exposes our bodies to accumulative free radical damage that is not the norm from our past ... which is perhaps why every week there is a new journal study out touting the benefits of additional supplementation. Heck, in the last 4 months of my newsletter, here's the research bytes I've collected:

Selenium May Protect Against Prostate Cancer
Vitamin supplements lower diabetic retinopathy risk
High Homocysteine and Bone Fracture Risk
Antioxidants and Asthma Prevalence
Dietary calcium and fracture risk
Calcium - Not Just for Bones
Benefits of Lutein - New findings from the Lutein Antioxidant Supplementation Trial (LAST)
Lack of vitamin D is associated with insulin resistance and beta cell dysfunction.
Folate Intake may be Linked to Ovarian Cancer
Folate Intake Related to Stroke Risk in Men
Glucosamine May Do More Than Simply Reduce Osteoarthritis Pain
Micronutrient Deficiency and DNA Damage
Antioxidants Appear to Protect Against Type 2 Diabetes
Antioxidants and Physical Performance in the Elderly
Asthma Prevalence in Youth Linked to Serum Antioxidant Levels

Then there's the recent JAMA article:

Mokdad AH, Marks JS, Stroup DF, Gerberding JL Actual causes of death in the United States, 2000. JAMA. 2004 Mar 10;291(10):1238-45.

That states the second leading cause of death in the United States is poor diet and lack of exercise. Poor diet, according to JAMA, includes not supplementing with multivitamins.

Here is a PDF document that covers JAMA's position on multivitamins:

http://www.naturalphysiques.com/doc/jama.pdf

I understand your point as to the "one-a-day" concept being inherently flawed in that some vitamins have a short-lived bioavailability to the body once ingested. Certain vitamins would only be available for very short periods of time leaving the rest of the day unfulfilled in the context of that one vitamin. Perhaps another question is this: what vitamins have very short bioavailablilties? Which of those vitamins are important enough to daily functioning and bodybuilding that might necessitate an investment in a high-quality multi-dose, multi-vitamin?

Personally, I have a hard enough time getting in my meals throughout the average workday - I'm far too busy to be bothered by taking separate packets of vitamins at different times (as has been the case with vitamin systems I've been asked to evaluate in the past) to keep certain vitamins more readily bioavailable.

In the context of a healthy diet and exercise program and in conjunction with a good-old standby vitamin akin to what's available at (insert grocery store here), isn't that enough? What do you truly gain by investing in higher-end multi-vitamins over say, Centrum or your average grocery store brand? Is their purity or quality control really that poor?

Yes, their purity and quality control really is that bad. In a recent study at Yale New Haven Hospital, it was found that many multivitamins were made with the wrong ratio and/or form of nutrients. Of 257 products tested, only 49 were judged to be adequate - and this is at the minimum level of adequate. The problem with those products is that there is no guarantee you are even getting the low levels the label claims. What's worse, they are guaranteed to be in the cheapest form which is not always the best.

Case in point - a recent study suggested supplementation with selenium (200mcg/day) can decrease risk from death of ALL CAUSES by 50%. However, this was with the organic form of selenium, not the synthetic form which is far less bioavailable. However, the organic form is more expensive so most companies will trim costs and give you less than what science has shown to be optimal/effective. Many of the forms of the nutrients are not even in forms that are readily digestible - they simply pass through because it costs more to chelate them to citric acids or amino acids so that digestive enzymes pass them into your portal vein for processing by the body.

As usual... apologies for the length, but when I get to thinking while typing... this happens.

-R

No problems! The bottom line is this ... if you don't have the time to invest in a health insurance policy, that is fine. Many people live long, healthy lives without ever taking a vitamin. This is very true! Entire cultures have been studied. So I don't doubt it is possible. However, I know the power because of what I have witnessed. My wife and I both enjoy the improved quality of sleep we obtained since we started taking a quality multi ... and the enhanced recovery ... and the fact that we have not had any major sickness or illness. It could very well be coincidence. However, after attending a seminar in which people who had fibromyalgia, multiple scelerosis, chronic arthritis, and other diseases, who had suffered in pain for years taking the traditional medical approach, who had clean and healthy diets, but who suddenly were able to see their symptoms reduced or even eliminated and could stand pain-free and tearful eyed to proclaim how powerful taking quality nutrient supplements was for their lives, it changed MY life. My opinion is that if it can help reverse the symptoms for them, how much more powerful will it be as a preventative measure to not have to undergo that pain in the first place? So for me, I'm really beyond concerning myself with evolution or how many studies there are ... I've witnessed the impact on others' lives first hand and enjoyed the quality of life it created for my wife and my children (yes, my wife and I are blown away at how our daughter has gone thorugh so many wonderful, positive changes simply through adding a pharmaceutical multi to her diet). So for us, the investment is well worth it!

And I'm not even asking anyone to invest in what I have ... mine is not the only company offering pharmaceutical grade multis. There are a few out there, but again, it takes a commitment to health and a value-conscious approach to even consider it. Most people try my product for 30 days "just to see" and I have only had a very insigificant percentage not notice a major change.

Jeremy

I agree that a good daily multi is essential. You might want to look at Beverly's Multi Pak, or Super Pak, at $17.95

I think that you'll find that they've got just about everything covered, and I don't find too many that'll dispute Beverly's product quality.
I'm only listing the links below, because their suggested price is $28 for a 30 day supply.

Multi Pak
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?number=BV012&back=yes&dept=1425&last=1425
Super Pak
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?number=BV017&back=yes&dept=1425&last=1425

I'm not suggesting that these are better than what Jeremy is recommending, and I have no intent on getting into a long discussion over what is better than what. (my typing skills suck, and I don't have the nutrition portions of my course work with me today :rolleyes: )
My experience has been that the line of products offered through direct sales are very often superior than those sold through retail.
However, I do believe that you will find the majority of the items that Jeremy suggested you look for in a daily, included in Beverly's line.
Just another option.

Jeremy,

I've heard that a diet low in vitamins can lead to overeating, based on the idea that the body will ask for more and more food (beyond its caloric needs) just to get the vitamins and minerals it wants. So, I wanted to ask you whether you've ever seen someone who has started taking good vitamins experience a drop in food cravings or a decrease in the number of calories they feel like eating. Could an increase in vitamin consumption lead to a decrease in some kinds of overeating?

I agree that a good daily multi is essential. You might want to look at Beverly's Multi Pak, or Super Pak, at $17.95

I think that you'll find that they've got just about everything covered, and I don't find too many that'll dispute Beverly's product quality.
I'm only listing the links below, because their suggested price is $28 for a 30 day supply.

Beverly is a superb company!! I was using their multis before I switched to my current brand, and I agree, they are fantastic. We switched because for some reason the Beverly gave my wife headaches (I didn't have any issues). With the new multi, she doesn't get headaches and we both noticed improved energy and quality of sleep even beyond the Beverly. However, from a health perspective, I agree that they are solid and they dose their vitamins based on an active weight lifter, not on the DRVs. They are also pharmaceutical grade.

I agree, this is not the place to debate what multi is best or even whether you should take a multi. It's a great place to share information and facts and ideas, and allow people to do their own research and make their own decisions.

Jeremy

I've taken Cooper for quite a while and been very happy. I went off them for a while and the decreases in my energy were slight but perceptible. I did quite a bit of research before selecting Cooper...looking at how much of which vitamins and in what forms they should be.

http://www.coopercomplete.com/

NOTE: Even though I work out pretty intensely, I don't take the elite athlete vitamins because of the reasons listed on his website. Be sure to READ that info before selecting that version.

I have NO affiliatation with this company BTW. I just dig their stuff.

just wondering what people thought of this (http://www.swisse.com.au/swissemensformula.htm) multi
its an aussie brand, and it seems pretty good, it has added herbs and other nice things
it seems alot better than the AST stuff, but im not sure! its more expensive, is it worth the extra $$? (only like $3 more expensive)

I'm an Aussie also and would be very interested if Jeremy (or anyone else) is aware of a pharmaceutical-grade multi that would be available down here. Or maybe what I should google to come up with an answer? The results from googling "pharmaceutical grade multivitamin" weren't very helpful. :p

the multi i linked to above is an aussie one ^^ (swisse)

i got it for $26, $10 off normal price, it seems like a very good multi, just want some comfirmation :)

I'm an Aussie also and would be very interested if Jeremy (or anyone else) is aware of a pharmaceutical-grade multi that would be available down here. Or maybe what I should google to come up with an answer? The results from googling "pharmaceutical grade multivitamin" weren't very helpful. :p

The multi I have is available in Australia. We have a distribution center right there. As for the other multi that was linked, I'll do a comparison and post it here later. Private message me if you're interested in the Australian price list.

Jeremy

The multi I have is available in Australia. We have a distribution center right there. As for the other multi that was linked, I'll do a comparison and post it here later. Private message me if you're interested in the Australian price list.

Jeremy

Okay, the comparison will take too long ... they're using mg for example for Vitamin E, which is different depending on the source because it has to be converted to IU. The ingredients look great - just glancing over it, for example, the Vitamin E is the d-toco form instead of the dl-toco (the d-toco has been shown to be more active in the body), I like that it has grapeseed extract and even ginkgo biloba, which is great for brain function, I just can't get a grasp on the amounts just yet ... what I have is all IU and their chart is mg, so I'd have to do some digging.

Jeremy

I just purchased two months supply of Beverly Multipak. Here's my question. I am 60 years old, do 45minutes a day cardio and work out with weights three times a week. Nothing significant, just keeping in shape. A friend told me that the Beverly Multipak is too much vitamin for someone of my age with the amount of exercise that I do. Is he right?

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that both aging and exercise increase your body's needs for vitamins minerals, amino acids etc, so if anything you should probably be taking at least as much, if not more, than a guy ten years younger.

Is the iron content safe? I have read that too much iron is very harmful.

I just purchased two months supply of Beverly Multipak. Here's my question. I am 60 years old, do 45minutes a day cardio and work out with weights three times a week. Nothing significant, just keeping in shape. A friend told me that the Beverly Multipak is too much vitamin for someone of my age with the amount of exercise that I do. Is he right?

The MultiPak is just their daily vitamin pak, and is much different than their SuperPak which is designed for indivisuals who train heavily.
I would suggest that you contact Beverly directly if you have any questions at all regarding any of the Beverly line.
http://www.bodybuildingworld.com/
I think that you will find them very helpful, and eager to answer any questions, or concerns.