I read a very interesting study today that basically found that eating more than 30g of protein in one sitting causes the excess protein to go to waste. Very interesting. I'm thinking about putting this theory to the test in my own fitness regimen by breaking down some of my larger protein meals into two or three smaller ones to see if there is any change. Do any of our nutritional experts have any thoughts on this?

Study finds moderate amounts of protein per meal found best for building muscle.

ScienceDaily (Oct. 27, 2009) — For thousands of years, people have believed that eating large amounts of protein made it easier to build bigger, stronger muscles. Take Milo of Croton, the winner of five consecutive Olympic wrestling championships in the sixth century BC: If ancient writers are to be believed, he built his crushing strength in part by consuming 20 pounds of meat every day.

No modern athlete would go to such extremes, but Milo's legacy survives in the high-protein diets of bodybuilders and the meat-heavy training tables of today's college football teams. A recent study by University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston metabolism researchers, however, provides evidence that strongly contradicts this ancient tradition. It also suggests practical ways to both improve normal American eating patterns and reduce muscle loss in the elderly.

The study's results, obtained by measuring muscle synthesis rates in volunteers who consumed different amounts of lean beef, show that only about the first 30 grams (just over one ounce) of dietary protein consumed in a meal actually produce muscle.

"We knew from previous work that consuming 30 grams of protein -- or the equivalent of approximately 4 ounces of chicken, fish, dairy, soy, or, in this case, lean beef -- increased the rate of muscle protein synthesis by 50 percent in young and older adults," said associate professor Douglas Paddon-Jones, senior author of a paper on the study published in the September issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. "We asked if 4 ounces of beef gives you a 50 percent increase, would 12 ounces, containing 90 grams of protein, give you a further increase?"

The UTMB researchers tested this possibility by feeding 17 young and 17 elderly volunteers identical 4- or 12-ounce portions of lean beef. Using blood samples and thigh muscle biopsies, they then determined the subjects' muscle protein synthesis rates following each of the meals.

"In young and old adults, we saw that 12 ounces gave exactly the same increase in muscle protein synthesis as 4 ounces," Paddon-Jones says. "This suggests that at around 30 grams of protein per meal, maybe a little less, muscle protein synthesis hits an upper ceiling. I think this has a lot of application for how we design meals and make menu recommendations for both young and older adults."

The results of the study, Paddon-Jones points out, seem to show that a more effective pattern of protein consumption is likely to differ dramatically from most Americans' daily eating habits.

"Usually, we eat very little protein at breakfast, eat a bit more at lunch and then consume a large amount at night. When was the last time you had just 4 ounces of anything during dinner at a restaurant?" Paddon-Jones said. "So we're not taking enough protein on board for efficient muscle-building during the day, and at night we're taking in more than we can use. Most of the excess is oxidized and could end up as glucose or fat."

A more efficient eating strategy for making muscle and controlling total caloric intake would be to shift some of extra protein consumed at dinner to lunch and breakfast.

"You don't have to eat massive amounts of protein to maximize muscle synthesis, you just have to be a little more clever with how you apportion it," Paddon-Jones said. "For breakfast consider including additional high quality proteins. Throw in an egg, a glass of milk, yogurt or add a handful of nuts to get to 30 grams of protein, do something similar to get to 30 for lunch, and then eat a smaller amount of protein for dinner. Do this, and over the course of the day you likely spend much more time synthesizing muscle protein."
Other authors of the paper include postdoctoral fellow T. Brock Symons, associate professor Melinda Sheffield Moore and University of Arkansas professor Robert R. Wolfe. The study was supported by funding from the National Cattlemen's Beef Association Checkoff Program and UTMB's National Institutes of Health Claude D. Pepper Older Americans Independence Center.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091026125543.htm

interesting link, thanks for posting it. i have seen this come up often and there seems to be a lot of differing opinions. i personally try and take in 40g of protein six times a day.

I detect a familiar journalistic quirk: the headline bears no relationship with the article (as quoted)!

Ok, before we get our knickers in a twist (as we Britis say), let's have a little think shall we.

They gave volunteers some lean beef, and found [how?] that only the first 30g of protein contributed to muscle growth.

Well, several questions spring to mind. What kind of muscle building program were the volunteers doing. How long had they been doing the chosen program. What was their level of development and commitment in strength training (newbies or vets? weekend warriors vs. competing athletes?

How did that feeding of beef sit with the volunteers remeaining diet for the durattion of the experiement.

Were the volunteers matched according to factors like initial body fat percentage, years of liftingexperience, backgrounddiet, smoking, drinking alcohol, eating junkk foods, eetc.

What neutral susbtsance was used as the placebo in place of beef? When I eat my droë-wors. I feel the beef whipping up an army of aggression in me, while I feel the separated and liquified layer of fat floating in my gastrointestinal system like a soapy slag waiting to be laid waste. I gotta know what placebo would have had me fooled.

Central fact: If you eat more calories over time than you burn or use for muscle synthesis, glycogen, etc, the remainder will be stored as fat

Neverthless, credit where credit due, it settles that thorny age old question that we aks eachother daily: 1. if I eat a huge quantity of protein and sit down in front of the TV for a while (maybe while opening a few beers and packets of hydrogenated potato chips) and wait a while, will I end up looking like arnold*? Or—conversely—2. is any meal of which more than 30g is protein a con, and our last chance to attain chick-puddling hotliness is by making up the calorie numbers with non-protein foods like poptarts, dougnuts, deep fried good-ness-know-what and christ-knows-what-even other sorts of shite.

(P.s. for those here who are not part of the British Commonwealth, the above was a modified form of reductio ad absurdam in which I construct a seemingly violent and hopeless dichotomy, which follows from an unkind interpretation of the premises and is designed to ridicule those premises.)

* in his prime.

Considering it was sponsered by a seller of protein (Cattlemen) I'd say the risk is the study is slanted towards too much protein not too little.

I think the conclusions are pretty decent considering the eating habits of most people I know: little to no protein throughout the day, especially at breakfast (except for the weekends). Spreading out protein seems to me to be good advice.

But I also don't think this study has given much info for those of us really interested in the fitness/muscle building aspect protein consumption.

I'm in no way any form of sciencetist or researcher, but in all the research I have seen (which is admittedly not a huge amount!) about how much protein we need/can use/is worthwhile having at one sitting, I have never seen the effect of digestion time/synthesis time taken into account. Does the 50% spike in rate of muscle protein synthesis last the same amount of time if you've eaten 30g versus 90g? If the rate goes up the same amount but lasts longer the more protein you eat, then it is kind of a wash, isn't it?

And rarely have I seen how often this synthesis rate spike can be induced with 30g of protein. If the study shows that it isn't worthwhile to have more than 30g of protein at one sitting, the next question I want answered is, How long should I wait before the next 30g of protein is going to induce a similar spike? (I have seen this listed as 3 hours, but never is an actual study.)

Interesting, but not entirely accurate relative to some other research I have read. With that said, I think this article I wrote ties in pretty nicely as it addresses some other issues with optimizing protein synthesis:

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/eating-optimally-for-massive-size-and-strength/

Very interesting article, Chris. Thanks for posting it. Question- when looking at the eating plan you posted, when would a person work out during that day? I'm guessing it would be between Meals # 2 and # 3 (since meal # 3 is the Opticen shake).

Sorry about my slightly odd message earlier in this thread. I was dosed up on medication and, though the point I intended to express was unspectacular, it acquired some odd imagery somewhere between brain and keyboard!

Very interesting article, Chris. Thanks for posting it. Question- when looking at the eating plan you posted, when would a person work out during that day? I'm guessing it would be between Meals # 2 and # 3 (since meal # 3 is the Opticen shake).

Actually, training can be at any time. It would not hurt to consume a meal directly after training, but a pre and or PWO shake is perfectly acceptable.

Thanks for posting this. Here is a link to the study's abstract if anyone is interested:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19699838?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed _ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1

This is another one that I will try to take a look at. I'm interested in how they measure protein synthesis.


I doubt that the number is 30 g for everybody, but I think the key take-away point here is that spreading out your protein is important, instead of consuming it all in one or two meals. Since most posters here already do that, I don't think it's too controversial.

Now, what would be really interesting is redoing this experiment post-workout.

Another important point to consider relative to that study is those participating in the study were not performing intense exercise, especially resistance exercise.

I thought about that as well, Chris. How would that effect the results with regard to protein synthesis and building muscle?

Did it mention the time as well? How many weeks?

I thought about that as well, Chris. How would that effect the results with regard to protein synthesis and building muscle?


I think it is significant, but I can't really put a specific number on it. The harder you train, the more your body has to do to recover.

Sorry about my slightly odd message earlier in this thread. I was dosed up on medication and, though the point I intended to express was unspectacular, it acquired some odd imagery somewhere between brain and keyboard!:dance:

I didn't read it carefully until you posted that. Then I went back and had a good giggle. :nod:

2. is any meal of which more than 30g is protein a con, and our last chance to attain chick-puddling hotliness is by making up the calorie numbers with non-protein foods like poptarts, dougnuts, deep fried good-ness-know-what and christ-knows-what-even other sorts of shite.:nono: Nobody needs to eat those things. I think of eating less meet as a great opportunity to eat more fruit, yogurt and oats. :drool:

I think that there are lots of good reasons to eat less protein. a) rice costs less than meat b) potatoes take fewer natural resources to grow than meat c) spinach has a greater nutrient density than meat c) oatmeal will help you move your bowels better than meat will d) it's easier to bring temperature-stable fruit with you for lunch than perishable meat

So, if eating more protein won't guarantee you a better body, then for the sake of your wallet, the environment, your heart, your colon, your kidneys, and your convenience, it might be a pretty good idea to try eating less of it.

Awhile back on the Internet, when it was brought to light that the average human could not digest more than about 25 grams of protein at one sitting (which may or may not be true), those that hawk protein for a living were quick to jump on this statement like rabid pitbulls, claiming that absolutely NOBODY knew how much a person could digest at one sitting...therefore any assumptions were bogus and you should take at least one gram of protein per pound of total bodyweight.

However, they shot themselves in the foot.

Seeing as "nobody Knows" how much a human digests at one sitting, according to the hawkers, then obviously they don't know either.