Basically I’d like a Victoria’s Secret model body and I’d like to know how to get one

At the moment, I’m feeling kind of disillusioned with exercise and need some advice.

For the past 2 years I was weight training but never really reached my goals or got anywhere, and to be honest, didn’t really know what I was doing. At the moment, I’m doing a 30 min brisk walk most days of the week, and eating very well, my daily diet as follows:

BFAST: 2/3 cup raw muesli with handful goji berries, tbl spoon linseed oil, heaped tbl spoon fat free natural yogurt, a little soy milk

SNACK: apple

LUNCH: wholegrain sandwich with protein (turkey, tuna, salmon, chicken, egg) with avocado and salad, plus a large side salad (all greens)

SNACK: handful almonds

DINNER: 1/4 protein, 1/4 carb, ½ vegetables. I eat lots of vegetables with perhaps grilled fish and a sweet potato, or a stir fry with chicken, using olive oil. Varies, but the same formula applies.

I don’t drink any alcohol, but have a few cups of tea throughout the day with soy milk.

I think I’d just need to include a bit more protein if I were weight training.

From what I have read, and from a trainer’s advice, I should be doing compound exercises. I don’t want to spend hours in the gym, I’d like to train smart, but I do enjoy weight training and am not adverse to hard work, although my body is naturally long and lean so I think I just need to be doing a little of the RIGHT thing.

Compound exercises to me meaning barbell squats, bench press, lat pulldowns, rows, crunches.

So there it is; I’m currently 5’7” and about 122 pounds, so I believe I could lose a bit of body fat to begin with, but I just really want a healthy body I can take pride in and looks great. If I kept doing that cardio and incorporated 2 days of compound weight training, plus maybe a day of yoga, will I get results? And in regards to compounds, or any weight training, can I do the same thing pretty much indefinitely provided I keep upping the weight? I’m not very familiar with this.

Any help would be much appreciated!

What types of changes are you after? Reasonably, you can expect weight training to give you a leaner and firmer look, whereas Victoria's Secret models are rather soft and curvy. Really, the only way to have a Victoria's Secret model body is by genetics, or by hiring a team of really good cosmetic surgeons. And since you're less than 5'10", the second option really isn't foolproof either. :(

At your current height and weight, if you lose 4 pounds, you'll be listed in the "underweight" range based on your body mass index. I don't agree this this always equates to an unhealthy body weight, but it is something to keep in mind. You are doing the right thing by ensuring that you get plenty of lean proteins and fibrous carbohydrates (especially vegetables) in your diet.

You can become a leaner stronger version of your own body shape, but can't become something you're not.

Your current diet, and current level of cardio plus two sessions of compound lifting should help you towards your goal of less body fat. You could do the same routine for at least 12 weeks if that's easiest for you, and that would be fine. Over the long run, however, for more balanced results, it's usually best for you to change your exercises around a little bit, including dumbbells vs barbells, hand positioning, stance, the number of sets and reps, and the order in which you perform the exercises.

Compound exercises to me meaning barbell squats, bench press, lat pulldowns, rows, crunches.


Guava's giving you good advice, but I wanted to comment here. Compound exercises are basically exercises that involve more than one joint or muscle group. You are right up until the last one. Crunches aren't really a compound exercise (nor really effective at...anything...including reducing belly fat...)

One area you are missing with your list is your posterior chain. Back, glutes, hamstrings. So something like a deadlift will fill that hole. You also don't have a vertical push like a military press. That would work your shoulders. I'd say that one is more optional depending on goals/shoulder health, while posterior chain work is especially important for women because women phisologically tend to be more quad dominant due to hip angles.

Thank you both for your replies.

Guava, that was really helpful, and yes, I suppose my goal is just to be a leaner and stronger version of what I am now, but I'd like to actually achieve this with my training this time!

Are you able to elaborate on the last part though, I'm really not sure about how long you can do one thing for, and what if you want to reach maintenance, etc. I was even contemplating getting a trainer, but I'm not sure how much use this would be. And how many sets/reps I should be doing? :o

I really don't have any specific area I'd like to work on, I'd rather make sure I work everything.

I'm not that great on building workouts, really. :o

What equipment do you have access to?

You might want to check out $tephanie's journal; she's doing the HIT (http://www.musclenet.com/getbulky/Info/TrainingMethods/HIT-FAQ.htm) program, which is pretty good at covering everything.

Check out this link here for the basics:
http://www.stumptuous.com/kristas-kompleat-kompendium-of-workout-routines

In case it's not clear from that link, you can choose your workout from this page:
http://www.stumptuous.com/category/training/workout_ideas

If you find a workout that sounds like it's almost perfect for you, but you don't have the equipment, or you're limited by an injury or other issue, post it in this thread or in a new one, and someone should be able to help you come up with a substitute exercise.

Thanks so much again, Guava, I will investigate those links.

I guess I wondered though, if I did stick to compound movements, incorporating the others MannishBoy mentioned, if I just kept doing them, increasing the weights until I couldn't lift anymore, wouldn't that get me to a maintenance level?

I apologise if this sounds really silly, I just get stressed and confused about having to change things all the time and I worry I'm wasting my time in the gym.

And to your answer your question, I have a gym membership, so have access to lots. :)

MannishBoy, in regards to the deadlift, a barbell squat isn't a good replacement?

MannishBoy, in regards to the deadlift, a barbell squat isn't a good replacement?


No, not in my opinion. While it gets a lot of glute and ham activation if you go deep and have proper form, a back squat it's still a quad dominate lift. Deads require more glute and ham activation, not to mention they hit the lower back a bit more.

You could also do single legged deads, romanian deads, stiff legged deads, glute ham raises, cable pull throughs, dumb bell/kettle bell swings, etc. But deadlifts hit more muscles with a higher weight than you could probably use on any of the other lifts.

Deadlifts are probably the biggest impact lift you can do. Hits about the whole body.

In addition to guava's links, you might read New Rules of Lifting for Women (http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Women-Goddess/dp/1583333398/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251174263&sr=8-1). I've read the men's version, and it's a good beginner/intermediate book based on lifting with big compound lifts.

Both quad dominant and posterior chain dominant types of lifts should be included in a balanced program.

:) Hello, just a thought or two for what it’s worth………..In my experience the best way to start out is to utilize a full body workout incorporating compounds of course without ‘obsessing’ on them………it’s really pretty hard to lift without utilizing compounds unless one is intent on doing machine work and flys. Having said if you are a complete novice seeking the assistance of a trainer would be of great benefit to be sure of proper form and there by maximize your effort and decrease the chances of injury.

Your body weight sounds about right to me………(bearing in mind I’m one of the ‘scrawnier’ members of the forum) so, were I you and unless I sought to bulk in order to become more muscular, that is to say even bigger than my current weight would allow, I wouldn’t worry too much about my diet initially assuming of course that it is a properly nutritious one……….getting started on and looking to judiciously adhering to a lifting regimen is, IMO, the most important element in achieving a new outlook/body shape, one that will become easier once you see the first signs of definition in your body.

Hmmm……..not a lot of ‘how too’ information in the above……..but that said………I’m not known for imparting a lot of ‘how too’ information. I am however (or at least I like to think) known for ‘well wishing’ which I do for you………..wish you well in achieving your desired fitness goals.:D

Thanks, Carole!

I second New Rules of Lifting for Women. You won't spend hours in the gym. For weight loss though you have to have your nutrition under control. I recommend The Fat Loss Troubleshoot if you can get a hold of it.

http://www.fatlosstroubleshoot.com/

http://forums.jpfitness.com/fat-loss-troubleshoot/

Thanks Sent.

What's your opinion on my current diet then? And can you give me a general overview/important tips from the Fat Loss Troubleshoot?

Just make sure you get enough lean protein in and balance the rest. If necessary you adjust from there. Also anything by John Berardi is a good read.

You could start here: http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/7habits.htm

Just apply those 7 rules and you'll be off to a good start. Article is a bit old and he's changed some stuff over the years of course. (You could check out his system Precision Nutrition too) You don't have to eat 5 times a day if you don't want. 3-4 is just fine depending on your situation and how you feel and what your calories are at. Eating 1500 calories a day in 6 meals probably sucks, but as 3, the meals are larger so you don't feel like you're just snacking on nothing all day.

3 days of lifting and a day of yoga would be decent. 1500 cals isn't a bad start point either. You need way more protein than you're getting right now. If you're going to start there, go with 150g protein, 145g carbs, 35g fats. If you're not leaning out, slowly drop carbs until you are. You're fairly slender/small at that weight already, so 1500 might be a bit high actually, depending on how active you are otherwise.

Just make sure you get enough lean protein in and balance the rest. If necessary you adjust from there. Also anything by John Berardi is a good read.

You could start here: http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/7habits.htm

Just apply those 7 rules and you'll be off to a good start. Article is a bit old and he's changed some stuff over the years of course. (You could check out his system Precision Nutrition too) You don't have to eat 5 times a day if you don't want. 3-4 is just fine depending on your situation and how you feel and what your calories are at. Eating 1500 calories a day in 6 meals probably sucks, but as 3, the meals are larger so you don't feel like you're just snacking on nothing all day.

Rule 1 isn't necessary, and is kind of outdated.
Rules 3/4 are excessive. Eating fruits and vegetables is good, but it's completely unnecessary for them to be the majority of your carb intake.

3 days of lifting and a day of yoga would be decent. 1500 cals isn't a bad start point either. You need way more protein than you're getting right now. If you're going to start there, go with 150g protein, 145g carbs, 35g fats. If you're not leaning out, slowly drop carbs until you are. You're fairly slender/small at that weight already, so 1500 might be a bit high actually, depending on how active you are otherwise.

Rule 1 isn't necessary, and is kind of outdated.
Rules 3/4 are excessive. Eating fruits and vegetables is good, but it's completely unnecessary for them to be the majority of your carb intake.

Rules 1 and 4 are to ensure that your blood sugar levels stay within the correct range at the right times of the day, so that your energy intake will power your workouts instead of shuttling fat into your storage systems. For the kind of recomposition that imperfect* is trying to do, they are VERY important rules.

I don't understand why if she is so small, you advised her to eat less. It should be the opposite; small people should eat more, because their goal isn't to be getting smaller.

If I understand your goals correctly, they are to firm up your body; to lose a bit of fat mass, and gain about an equivalent amount of lean body mass. Is that correct? In my opinion, you don't want to be under 1500 calories to do that. 1800-1900 has worked well for me, which I've dropped down to 1500-1600 for short bursts (a month or so) of cutting. But the first time I dipped below 118 pounds, I felt that I looked a little more scrawny than I would have liked to be, and so I spent the next couple of years trying to pack on a little more muscle mass. You can go that route if you'd like, but it's not your only option. :)

Actually, I'd suggest that since you are so concerned about doing things wrong, that you should consider paying someone to build a plan for you. Someone who will monitor your body changes and adjust your intake and activity levels to complement your specific recomposition needs. The advice you will get in a thread from random members is all over the map, because we've all found slightly different strategies that work for us. Nobody can guarantee what might work for you best.

*I really don't like typing that user name. It's so much more productive to focus on the positives.

It seems like nobody has explicitly mentioned two huge aspects.

1. Sleep. You have to be getting good sleep for the exercise stuff to work the way it's "supposed" to. Special attention to sleep the night of a workout.

2. Recovery. You want to get high intensity in your workouts, and this typically means paying attention to how you recover. You can use splits to help muscles recover, but you need rest days to get the metabolism to recover, and to replenish energy stores such as glycogen. Some of your rate of recovery is subject to training - so high cardiovascular fitness can justify a little more workout volume, but if you have too little recovery, then all the other stuff is just spinning the wheels and not getting you anywhere. Just like pumping a swing - you have to get things sort of in synch. On this last point - don't pay too much attention to workout plans that have huge volume and miniature recovery - those can work if you are a twenty year old male, or on steroids, but aren't that reasonable if you are not in those categories.

Guava, thank you, and I think you may be right RE consulting someone with my specific needs, as this thread is getting a bit diverse in responses. I actually have a history with EDs, thus my concern with keeping healthy and on the right track, so it seems I should look elsewhere.

Thanks for that advice, Zen, and to everyone else!

:)

Rules 1 and 4 are to ensure that your blood sugar levels stay within the correct range at the right times of the day, so that your energy intake will power your workouts instead of shuttling fat into your storage systems. For the kind of recomposition that imperfect* is trying to do, they are VERY important rules.

I don't understand why if she is so small, you advised her to eat less. It should be the opposite; small people should eat more, because their goal isn't to be getting smaller.

If I understand your goals correctly, they are to firm up your body; to lose a bit of fat mass, and gain about an equivalent amount of lean body mass. Is that correct? In my opinion, you don't want to be under 1500 calories to do that. 1800-1900 has worked well for me, which I've dropped down to 1500-1600 for short bursts (a month or so) of cutting. But the first time I dipped below 118 pounds, I felt that I looked a little more scrawny than I would have liked to be, and so I spent the next couple of years trying to pack on a little more muscle mass. You can go that route if you'd like, but it's not your only option. :)

Actually, I'd suggest that since you are so concerned about doing things wrong, that you should consider paying someone to build a plan for you. Someone who will monitor your body changes and adjust your intake and activity levels to complement your specific recomposition needs. The advice you will get in a thread from random members is all over the map, because we've all found slightly different strategies that work for us. Nobody can guarantee what might work for you best.

*I really don't like typing that user name. It's so much more productive to focus on the positives.

If you eat pre/post workout and have two other meals somewhere in the day, rules 1 and 4 are so insignificant as to be pointless. If you have ever known anyone that had any meaningful progress merely from eating a few more times a day when their daily macros were otherwise identical, let me know. I'm willing to bet no one here does. I eat 5 times a day spiking plasma leucine between meals to maximize protein synthesis... 4 on my off day when I'm lazy, and I'm making the best progress of my life (both on the previous cut, and now bulking) even though I'm eating less frequently. I believe Chris Mason said he only eats 3 meals a day. A lot of people do great on IF, too. As I said, the eating all day long thing is a bit dated.

I suggested that calorie level to lean out a bit. Recomp could theoretically work, but for someone who has tried before and not made much progress, she will probably do better with visibly faster results, and can put on some mass later on if she wants. She'll probably still gain a bit in the process anyway as she is acclimating to compound lifts. I personally don't have the patience. There are many paths to your goal, Imperfect. Pick one that fits you best.

Basically I’d like a Victoria’s Secret model body and I’d like to know how to get one


Any help would be much appreciated!

I say do whatever this girl is doing. She's in much better shape/fitness than any Victoria's Secret model.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a7Kf1e5lEI

I mentioned the meal frequency thing. As for eating veg/fruit, they are just awesome forms of fiber etc

Article on meal frequency (Im sure you've seen it Xkn):
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html