I'm currently following starting Strength and seeing good gains in Strength and Size. However, my Overhead Press is getting tough. I've been using the Military Press but last workout I had to perform the last two reps as Push Presses.

My goal is to add size and strength. With this in mind, what is the best course to take. Do i stick to strict Military Presses and count this as a stall or do I perform as many Military Presses as I can, switching to the Push Press to complete the remaining reps. Performing Push Presses is going to allow me to continue upping the weight.

Thanks

I'm currently following starting Strength and seeing good gains in Strength and Size. However, my Overhead Press is getting tough. I've been using the Military Press but last workout I had to perform the last two reps as Push Presses.

My goal is to add size and strength. With this in mind, what is the best course to take. Do i stick to strict Military Presses and count this as a stall or do I perform as many Military Presses as I can, switching to the Push Press to complete the remaining reps. Performing Push Presses is going to allow me to continue upping the weight.

Thanks

It's not considered a stall until you miss reps 3 sessions in a row. After a while increasing the weight each session isn't possible and press is usually the one that you'll see this first. Just try again (without the push press) next session, hopefully you'll get more reps, if not try again the session after.

I've had a hell of a time with the press as well actually. If any exercise makes me feel weak it is this one. Microloading helped me, have you tried it?

How long have you been doing the program?

It's not considered a stall until you miss reps 3 sessions in a row. After a while increasing the weight each session isn't possible and press is usually the one that you'll see this first. Just try again (without the push press) next session, hopefully you'll get more reps, if not try again the session after.

Sorry, rather than a stall I meant to describe it as "missed reps".

I'm currently five weeks into the program. This is the first time i've missed reps on an exercise. Microloading is possible and i already had that in mind for when the need arose. It just felt very natural to use the Push Press to hit those two last reps. Did I gain anything from those last two reps?

Thinking about it I probably need to re-phrase the question, so:

Given that the goal is shoulder strength and size, why not just switch to Push Press and put up more weight/reps when a strict press becomes difficult?

Sorry, rather than a stall I meant to describe it as "missed reps".

I'm currently five weeks into the program. This is the first time i've missed reps on an exercise. Microloading is possible and i already had that in mind for when the need arose. It just felt very natural to use the Push Press to hit those two last reps. Did I gain anything from those last two reps?

Thinking about it I probably need to re-phrase the question, so:

Given that the goal is shoulder strength and size, why not just switch to Push Press and put up more weight/reps when a strict press becomes difficult?

If you can't perform the last reps with strict form you could push press the last couple for the extra work, but I wouldn't count them with the actual press reps. I would then stay at the same weight until I could get all the press reps without the push press.

How much are you pressing out of interest? I've seen some of your other posts and it looks as though you still have plenty of scope to stay on within this program.

Sorry, rather than a stall I meant to describe it as "missed reps".

I'm currently five weeks into the program. This is the first time i've missed reps on an exercise. Microloading is possible and i already had that in mind for when the need arose. It just felt very natural to use the Push Press to hit those two last reps. Did I gain anything from those last two reps?

Thinking about it I probably need to re-phrase the question, so:

Given that the goal is shoulder strength and size, why not just switch to Push Press and put up more weight/reps when a strict press becomes difficult?
Starting Strength relies on linear progression. When you introduce the push press, you remove the clear upper bound that the strict press defines, as you are able to shift emphasis toward the legs. The legs are much stronger than the upper body (or at least should be) and the push press naturally bridges the gap between the press and the jerk. So, the trap is that, if you are allowed to include the legs in the lift, there is no longer a reason for your linear progression to stall. Given competency at the push press, you should be able to lift weights up a bit past the point that you can jerk them without a second rebend of the legs (though not to the extent you could with that rebend). This is potentially quite a bit larger than your strict press, depending on the strength of your legs and also your arms in the upper half of the press ROM. Obviously, by the time you reach the limit of your ability to push press, your shoulders and arms are no longer being taxed in the same way as the press taxes them, as the leg involvement can no longer be minimal. (This is one of the reason why the extreme leg involvement of the jerk ultimately causes it to be almost completely independent of your ability to strict press.) Therefore, the only way to keep this change from occurring is to impose some subjective limitation on the amount you allow yourself to use the legs. This is better, but it's still counterproductive, as there's no way to accurately judge whether your lift is "stalling" or you merely didn't let yourself apply as much force as last time.

The dropping back when you've stalled is one of the key points of continuing strength development in Starting Strength, so it's not something you really want to mess with.

If you can't perform the last reps with strict form you could push press the last couple for the extra work, but I wouldn't count them with the actual press reps. I would then stay at the same weight until I could get all the press reps without the push press.

How much are you pressing out of interest? I've seen some of your other posts and it looks as though you still have plenty of scope to stay on within this program.

Thanks Woodan/chicanerous. I'll just discount the Push Press reps and try for the weight again. My current lifts (for 3x5) are :

Squat - 80kg/176lbs
Press - 46kg/101lbs (2 missed reps)
Pendlay Row - 60kg/132lbs
Bench - 54kg/118lbs
Deadlift - 90kg/198lbs

Apart from the Press I feel i've got a good few sessions before I start missing reps on anything else.

Thanks Woodan/chicanerous. I'll just discount the Push Press reps and try for the weight again. My current lifts (for 3x5) are :

Squat - 80kg/176lbs
Press - 46kg/101lbs (2 missed reps)
Pendlay Row - 60kg/132lbs
Bench - 54kg/118lbs
Deadlift - 90kg/198lbs

Apart from the Press I feel i've got a good few sessions before I start missing reps on anything else.

Your press is high compared to your other lifts so it's not surprising you have run into trouble there first. As Gance mentioned, microloading might help you out.

Got the full 3x5 reps at 46kg for the Press tonight.
Will carry on as per the program for now. If and when i actually stall on the Press i'll begin microloading.

Thanks guys:tu:

I am also doing Starting Strength, when I reach a stall I use that same weight for the next week rather than increase. I have not had any problems yet. I just reached failure on my standing press last week at 100 pounds, but broke through it this week!! EAT EAT EAT, i have been drinking half gallon of Whole milk daily with my 3 nitrean shakes and still losing weight!

i currently weigh 158.8 at 5ft 6in and have been doing ripptoes since jan 1st, increase five pound every week.

Current lifts

Squat - 185 lbs
Bench - 135 lbs
Dead - 145 lbs
Bent Row - 140 lbs
ST Press - 100 lbs

I also add 2x8 dips on bench day, 2x8 pull ups bent row day. 2x8 weighted decline situps every workout.


My quick question is,

Can I add in Chest Flys/ dumbbell chest, on chest days?
Or Biceps on Back days?
I have been adding these along with the extras listed above, is this considered over training?

Spendy to drink that much milk, wow.

I am also doing Starting Strength, when I reach a stall I use that same weight for the next week rather than increase. I have not had any problems yet. I just reached failure on my standing press last week at 100 pounds, but broke through it this week!! EAT EAT EAT, i have been drinking half gallon of Whole milk daily with my 3 nitrean shakes and still losing weight!

i currently weigh 158.8 at 5ft 6in and have been doing ripptoes since jan 1st, increase five pound every week.

Current lifts

Squat - 185 lbs
Bench - 135 lbs
Dead - 145 lbs
Bent Row - 140 lbs
ST Press - 100 lbs

I also add 2x8 dips on bench day, 2x8 pull ups bent row day. 2x8 weighted decline situps every workout.


My quick question is,

Can I add in Chest Flys/ dumbbell chest, on chest days?
Or Biceps on Back days?
I have been adding these along with the extras listed above, is this considered over training?

Uh, the milk thing sounds fabulous. I couldn't do that without gaining a ton of weight.

I like the dips and pullups. I would ditch the situps and not bother with the flyes. In your situation the dips are way better than the flyes. The dips are way better than the flyes.

If you want to add? Add load to your squat and dead. Forget decorating your work with small stuff until your squat and dead are respectable. Otherwise I worry that all that wonderful milk isn't really doing that much for you.

Your press is decent, and very good job rowing heavier than your bench. :tucool:

I'm currently following starting Strength and seeing good gains in Strength and Size. However, my Overhead Press is getting tough. I've been using the Military Press but last workout I had to perform the last two reps as Push Presses.

My goal is to add size and strength. With this in mind, what is the best course to take. Do i stick to strict Military Presses and count this as a stall or do I perform as many Military Presses as I can, switching to the Push Press to complete the remaining reps. Performing Push Presses is going to allow me to continue upping the weight.

Thanks

I would stick with the military's.
Don't give in. Stay with it for a couple of weeks, then see what happens.

Sure you can push press it. Fight the military and maybe next cycle do some push press's.:tu:
You're eating and resting enough, right?

Hello Spartan!

I was curious as to what your full routine is. How do you split it up? I'm looking at several similar numbers as you (though, mostly not quite that high) and am trying to figure out a plan for myself.

I looked for a journal of yours to find it doesn't yet exist. Welcome to the forums!

I would stick with the military's.
Don't give in. Stay with it for a couple of weeks, then see what happens.

Sure you can push press it. Fight the military and maybe next cycle do some push press's.:tu:
You're eating and resting enough, right?

Don't know if you saw my reply from yesterday but I stuck with the Military Press and got the reps I couldn't do last time.

Glad I asked here and stuck with it because now I know that i've made some progress with the lift. My other lifts are improving session to session because I still think i'm working up to my natural limit.

Definitely eating enough. Infact I increased my intake earlier than needed and put on a little too much weight. Shouldn't be a problem as I should be able to shed it through the summer. Resting enough too.

Don't know if you saw my reply from yesterday but I stuck with the Military Press and got the reps I couldn't do last time.

Glad I asked here and stuck with it because now I know that i've made some progress with the lift. My other lifts are improving session to session because I still think i'm working up to my natural limit.

Definitely eating enough. Infact I increased my intake earlier than needed and put on a little too much weight. Shouldn't be a problem as I should be able to shed it through the summer. Resting enough too.

Good work, that's what it's all about. Progress. I used this workout for a while and looking at you numbers you should have plenty of room to improve on this program. Keep with it and it should do you well. :tu:

Hello Spartan!

I was curious as to what your full routine is. How do you split it up? I'm looking at several similar numbers as you (though, mostly not quite that high) and am trying to figure out a plan for myself.

I looked for a journal of yours to find it doesn't yet exist. Welcome to the forums!

Hi Falhurk,

Workout A

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Dips 3xF
Weighted Decline Crunch/situp 2x8

Workout B

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pendlay Row 3x5
Chin-ups 3xF
Weighted Decline Crunch/situp 2x8

Possibly found the info for this program at the same place as FiDdyNiCk.

Alternately performed M/W/F. For the three main lifts each session i've been adding 2kg/4.4lbs each session. That was too little progression for my Deadlift though so I upped the weight during the third week because it was feeling too easy.

To give you an idea of progress i've performed 14 session and my lifts from session one to now are:

Squat 56kg --> 82kg
Bench 40kg --> 54kg
Deadlift 68kg --> 90kg
Press 36kg --> 46kg
Pendlay Row 50kg --> 62kg

Do need to start a journal, so will look to do that. Thanks.

Ah, interesting. Is that the Rippletoe's beginning strength (I think it was) plan?

Hi Falhurk,

Workout A

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Dips 3xF
Weighted Decline Crunch/situp 2x8

Workout B

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pendlay Row 3x5
Chin-ups 3xF
Weighted Decline Crunch/situp 2x8

Possibly found the info for this program at the same place as FiDdyNiCk.

Alternately performed M/W/F. For the three main lifts each session i've been adding 2kg/4.4lbs each session. That was too little progression for my Deadlift though so I upped the weight during the third week because it was feeling too easy.

To give you an idea of progress i've performed 14 session and my lifts from session one to now are:

Squat 56kg --> 82kg
Bench 40kg --> 54kg
Deadlift 68kg --> 90kg
Press 36kg --> 46kg
Pendlay Row 50kg --> 62kg

Do need to start a journal, so will look to do that. Thanks.


There will come a point where you will most likely have to reduce the frequency of the workouts.

As you get stronger along with the effort and added weight on the the bar I feel you may not recover as well.

A good solid A B would look like this:

A. Tue.
Crunch-1x12
Squat-3x5
Stiffs-1x12
Bench-3x5
Row or Pulldown-3x5
Static holds for time-2x60 sec.
B:Fri
Side bend-1x12
Deadlift-3x5
Press-3x5
Curl-3x5
Calves 2x12
The above wil work wonders if you stick with it, don't add or take away; a person could literally stick with the above for a solid year without making changes.

I witnessed a guy go from 190 to 247@17% with the strength to match doing just that.

http://www.realstrengthrealmuscle.com/

Ah, interesting. Is that the Rippletoe's beginning strength (I think it was) plan?

It's basically Rippetoes Starting Strength but with a few changes, like the Pendlay row instead of the Power Clean etc.

I really like the simplicity of it. It allows me to concentrate on improving the big compound lifts. I'm gonna run it until I stop making progress which should then give me a really solid base to build on.

If you are interested I have used a logbook calculator that makes it easy to plan your progress/warmups etc. http://www.scribd.com/doc/3382978/Starting-Strength-Logbook-Calculator

The point of adding whole milk to your diet is for the extra calories, along with the fat/protein intake at the same time.

If you're still loosing weight despite drinking that much milk, your FOOD intake needs to be changed. Add more meat.

Protein + fat = awesomeness.

Uh, the milk thing sounds fabulous. I couldn't do that without gaining a ton of weight.

I like the dips and pullups. I would ditch the situps and not bother with the flyes. In your situation the dips are way better than the flyes. The dips are way better than the flyes.

If you want to add? Add load to your squat and dead. Forget decorating your work with small stuff until your squat and dead are respectable. Otherwise I worry that all that wonderful milk isn't really doing that much for you.

Your press is decent, and very good job rowing heavier than your bench. :tucool:

zenpharaohs,

what can I add on my bench days to help build my chest?

My chest is heavily lacking as you can see, I can cleanly row more than my bench? Are dips are the only thing I need to do?
Maybe up the sets? I do 2X8 and I don't seem to improve on my bench? Still reach failure every progression and have to go back a week, so I added 2 sets off 50lb[per arm] flyes.

Quit sit ups? what about my six pack I am looking to get in June!


Spartan88,

That's great you add 5 pounds per workout! I am still adding 5 per week, with progression for 8 weeks! I tried this same workout last year but I ate low calories, and it ended quick with results that really upset me considering it was my first time. This year I am going to build a base for 3-4 months, then cut it for 2 months! after reading i have learned, and I also take pictures 1st of every month to keep me focused!

You won't get a 6-pack from doing situps.

You need to cut the body fat for that.

zenpharaohs,

what can I add on my bench days to help build my chest?

Quit sit ups? what about my six pack I am looking to get in June!

A: Squats and deads? Until your squat is 315# and your dead is well above that, you should make best progress by jacking up your big lifts. After those two lifts, I would say the dips and pullups, rows and bench, are where your upper body focus should be. The shoulder girdle ends up being some pretty big hunk of muscles and you don't get a big hunk of muscles unless you stimulate systemic muscle growth - not just local stuff at your stage of the game. Go on a breathing squat program when you get through Starting Strength. That's usually good for some mass.

You can make sure your dips focus on chest by adopting the proper grip. There's a guy here called mastover who is a big fan of dips, and he has the best information on that. You probably want to load up those dips too.

Now I have a big chest and upper back, but I never focus on hypertrophy. I just like heavy big compound lifting because it's fun and convenient. Nutritionally? I enjoy drinking milk. This has the side effect of I have added about 30 pounds of lean mass in about four years, and removed about the same amount of fat. But I'm not really that interested in bodybuilding so much as I am interested in fitness and strength. So questions about advanced chest hypertrophy are not really for me. But just general hypertrophy? Big compounds and eat up.

B: And yeah, quit situps. It's time you could spend doing squats or deads. You probably have more than enough rectus abdominus. If you want to show it off, you have to diet. Abs come more from diet than exercise. If you want to show your abs and pack on muscle that is possible, but it's a lot more difficult than adding the muscle first, and then cutting fat down to show the abs.

A: Squats and deads? Until your squat is 315# and your dead is well above that, you should make best progress by jacking up your big lifts. After those two lifts, I would say the dips and pullups, rows and bench, are where your upper body focus should be. The shoulder girdle ends up being some pretty big hunk of muscles and you don't get a big hunk of muscles unless you stimulate systemic muscle growth - not just local stuff at your stage of the game. Go on a breathing squat program when you get through Starting Strength. That's usually good for some mass.

You can make sure your dips focus on chest by adopting the proper grip. There's a guy here called mastover who is a big fan of dips, and he has the best information on that. You probably want to load up those dips too.

Now I have a big chest and upper back, but I never focus on hypertrophy. I just like heavy big compound lifting because it's fun and convenient. Nutritionally? I enjoy drinking milk. This has the side effect of I have added about 30 pounds of lean mass in about four years, and removed about the same amount of fat. But I'm not really that interested in bodybuilding so much as I am interested in fitness and strength. So questions about advanced chest hypertrophy are not really for me. But just general hypertrophy? Big compounds and eat up.

B: And yeah, quit situps. It's time you could spend doing squats or deads. You probably have more than enough rectus abdominus. If you want to show it off, you have to diet. Abs come more from diet than exercise. If you want to show your abs and pack on muscle that is possible, but it's a lot more difficult than adding the muscle first, and then cutting fat down to show the abs.

Point taken, abs are out!

Today I focused on 4X12 dips after my squat/bench/dead day, just get a lacking of chest, both by strength and looks!

What would you recommend for a workout to start studying when April/May rolls around and I want to try cutting? That will be 4 months. Or should I continue to Stay on Starting Strength and cut calories?
Do not want to be huge but look physically fit, and still be able to handle a bit of cardio since I race motorcross.

315 is a long was away! I am only at 190 on my squat!

Point taken, abs are out!

Today I focused on 4X12 dips after my squat/bench/dead day, just get a lacking of chest, both by strength and looks!

What would you recommend for a workout to start studying when April/May rolls around and I want to try cutting? That will be 4 months. Or should I continue to Stay on Starting Strength and cut calories?
Do not want to be huge but look physically fit, and still be able to handle a bit of cardio since I race motorcross.

315 is a long was away! I am only at 190 on my squat!

Make sure you are benching with good form. I've fallen into this trap. All my lift have progressed nicely other than my bench which has remained pathetic for a year. I did some research and I came to the conclusion that when I bench I wasn't actually targetting the pectoral muscles, more the anterior delts and triceps.

It's only today that I'm starting to correct this so I can't say that what I'm about to try is going to work yet. Suggestions I've come across though are not to lock out the lift and really focus on and squeeze the pecs when you lift. You may well have to reduce the weight now that you are focusing on the underdeveloped pecs.

I hope this will work as I am really lagging in this area. My current max lifts are 160kg deadlift, 136.5kg squat and only 80kg bench.