Hi guys,

I had a successful cut using SGX last summer and I’m about to back into another cut using SGX again – however the thought of going through all that early morning cardio again is mind-numbing to say the least.

To have a two-pronged question:

1. If you have done SGX before, what was you opinion of Mastover’s programme?

2. Would you try and tinker with SGX to get some high intensity / shorter duration cardio?

I've done SGX before but I haven't worked with Mastover. But I will say that I didn't like SGX (let me be clear the program was def. effective, I just didn't like it), so I would probably go with Mastover.

I've worked with both of those guys, and I had markedly better results when I was working with Mastover (and I did FAR less cardio). As I progressed Mastover made significant, major adjustments to my diet and training. I feel Aram's attention to detail benefited me a great deal. Also, Mastover is an absolute joy to work with. Adding him as a sponsor here was an easy choice, and choosing to work with him again on my upcoming cut was an even easier choice. No comparison, really.

I've worked with both of those guys, and I had markedly better results when I was working with Mastover (and I did FAR less cardio). As I progressed Mastover made significant, major adjustments to my diet and training. I feel Aram's attention to detail benefited me a great deal. Also, Mastover is an absolute joy to work with. Adding him as a sponsor here was an easy choice, and choosing to work with him again on my upcoming cut was an even easier choice. No comparison, really.

ouch on Swoles behalf, I was going to post a thread about which of these two guys would be more beneficial in relation to cutting, but I think I got my answer now.

ouch on Swoles behalf, I was going to post a thread about which of these two guys would be more beneficial in relation to cutting, but I think I got my answer now.
I'm only stating my honest opinion. SGX was a solid program, but IMO it has not evolved and is pretty far behind the times. One of the things I like most about Mastover is he's always looking ahead, and keeps an open mind. :nod:

I'm only stating my honest opinion. SGX was a solid program, but IMO it has not evolved and is pretty far behind the times. One of the things I like most about Mastover is he's always looking ahead, and keeps an open mind. :nod:

I haven't worked with Mastover but that's the general impression I get. SGX was a great program for me and it worked really well, but I got the impression that Swole was doling out pretty much the same program to everyone, whereas Mastover tailors his programs a bit more to the individual. I could be wrong, of course :)

The only thing about SGX that I would rate as "bad" is the amount of cardio: 45 minutes of LISS every damn day got boring fast.

I'm only stating my honest opinion. SGX was a solid program, but IMO it has not evolved and is pretty far behind the times. One of the things I like most about Mastover is he's always looking ahead, and keeps an open mind. :nod:Sadly, I think this is very true. Chris was a pleasure to work with, and was very polite and prompt. I in no way feel like I was ripped off with his programs or anything like that. I WAS a satisfied customer.

However, I never felt like he stayed 'current'. He dismissed new ides that differed from his fitness ideologies pretty quickly.

On a side note, I ironically just removed his forums from my favorites folder this morning cause of the severe lack of activity on them. That place is a serious ghost town these days. Then this thread pops up...weird.

Sadly, I think this is very true. Chris was a pleasure to work with, and was very polite and prompt. I in no way feel like I was ripped off with his programs or anything like that. I was a satisfied customer.

However, I never felt like he stayed 'current'. He dismissed new ides that differed from his fitness ideologies pretty quickly.

On a side note, I ironically just removed his forums from my favorites folder this morning cause of the severe lack of activity them. That place is a ghost town these days. Then this thread pops up...weird.

hmmm very strange indead, could this be the beginning of the end for SGX?

Sadly, I think this is very true. Chris was a pleasure to work with, and was very polite and prompt. I in no way feel like I was ripped off with his programs or anything like that. I was a satisfied customer.

However, I never felt like he stayed 'current'. He dismissed new ides that differed from his fitness ideologies pretty quickly.


U literally just read my mind.

This thread is a great example of this:
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=11026&highlight=swolecat

it features a debate between 2 gurus, alan aragon and swolecat.

U literally just read my mind.

This thread is a great example of this:
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=11026&highlight=swolecat

it features a debate between 2 gurus, alan aragon and swolecat.Ironically, I think Alan called it correctly over 4 years ago in that thread when he said this:
from one professional in this field to another, your track record/history is all you need? - phooey. everyone needs continuing education, that's one thing that should never cease to be nurtured, especially if you're a practitioner in this field. trust me, i can easily flex my own resume to wow people & use it as a crutch for stagnation & an excuse to avoid intelligent discussion, but screw that.
I almost hate to be even contributing in this thread because I really did enjoy my time working SC's plans. I just want to be honest.

What John said (in both posts).... with no hesitation.

I've worked with both of those guys, and I had markedly better results when I was working with Mastover (and I did FAR less cardio). As I progressed Mastover made significant, major adjustments to my diet and training. I feel Aram's attention to detail benefited me a great deal. Also, Mastover is an absolute joy to work with. Adding him as a sponsor here was an easy choice, and choosing to work with him again on my upcoming cut was an even easier choice. No comparison, really.

Never did SGX, but I can vouch for Mastover. Simply put, his plans work. Plus, he's a great to work with. Just a quick review of his posts here on this forum will reveal the kind of helpful and knowledgeable person he is.

Just out of interest i had a quick look today for the SGX thread or posts from Swole...i couldn't find it....does this mean he's no longer around? And i take it he's no longer a sponser here, and that Mastover is his 'replacement', as such?

I've been on both, currently on Mastover's.

SGX got me to be the leanest I have ever been. So I can't complain about that. Getting cut was the goal.

I'm currently leaning out, very successfully (at least I think so) with Mastover. I think Mastover has more options, nutrition only (which is what I purchased), training only, nutrition and training. With SGX you have to purchase the whole thing.

I think I remember John still doing his own thing while SUP2 but I'm not sure how effectively he feels Swole adjusted his calories for his type of volume. (NOT SPEAKING FOR JOHN HERE JUST SOMETHING I'VE WONDERED).

Also the diet seems less restrictive with Mastover. I can't say for certain about his training methods, but I would assume that Mastover changes things up for you. SGX had the same workout. I like variety.

And I think Mastover prices are very reasonable.

I was on SGX and its killer especially if you have a physical job - light headed constantly hungry etc but it worked and worked well but it was a very hard program to stick to. I didnt mind cardio at all but once it got into the 3rd or 4th month that's when I really lost the drive. But was already seeing great results. When i relaxed on the SGX diet (few extra carbs nothing major) I noticed i would stack the weight back on in a matter of weeks which I really hated. Is that maybe because of such a lowwww carb diet?.

Now ive been on Arams nutritional program since jan 1st and have lost stuff all weight approx 2 kgs....... but lost a fairr chunk of body fat as i have been taking pictures weekly since.
I think i may need to tweak the program soon though but atm im loving it never hungry never light headed and a bit of freedom with the diet!
A+ atm Aram!



BTW Cameron I asked basically the same question in another thread few weeks ago and never got an answer :confused:

Just out of interest i had a quick look today for the SGX thread or posts from Swole...i couldn't find it....does this mean he's no longer around? And i take it he's no longer a sponser here, and that Mastover is his 'replacement', as such?
I terminated our business relationship several months ago.

I terminated our business relationship several months ago.Hmm, first I've heard it as a 'terminated' relationship. He wrote a pretty cordial parting message on here, saying there was no 'drama' or anything like that.

Hindsight says you made a good call. I have not worked with Aram, but observation tells me he's more open and studious.

Hmm, first I've heard it as a 'terminated' relationship. He wrote a pretty cordial parting message on here, saying there was no 'drama' or anything like that.
Well, there wasn't any drama. It was a business decision I made, and that's all there is to it.

I've done both, just finished with months of SGX, and my progress stalled. 2 weeks with Aram and my body is going nuts losing fat and gaining muscle. I've taken the training of SGX and the nutrition of Aram, and it seems to be working well for me.

I lost 23 lbs on SGX over 12 weeks.

I've lost 3lbs of fat and gained about 2-3lbs of muscle on Mastover in 2 weeks.

KD

I was wondering to people who have done these. how does the nutritional part go, I'm not asking for breakdown of what you ate and stuff. But are they pretty loose in terms of what you can eat meaning you tell them what have available and they work around that? Or do they prescribe the food?

I was wondering to people who have done these. how does the nutritional part go, I'm not asking for breakdown of what you ate and stuff. But are they pretty loose in terms of what you can eat meaning you tell them what have available and they work around that? Or do they prescribe the food?

Neither has food prescriptions. SGX is much more regimented in terms of ratios/grams/timing, which works well for me, but it's not for everyone.

Mastover is a looser system in terms of the timing and meal-specific ratios vs. daily ratios and grams. I prefer that, and honestly, the ratios that are working with Aram are way easier to stick with long term, IMO.

kD

Having a trainer online seems highly impersonal to me. I was wondering if people can offer up thoughts on this.

Having a trainer online seems highly impersonal to me. I was wondering if people can offer up thoughts on this.

I've seen trainers in person. And I have yet to meet one who works with you in the same way SwoleCat or Mastover work with you. If you want to talk about impersonal, these guys would be the poster boys for impersonal. They are constantly on the phone and the only thing they really show you is how to do an exercise, you can get that on this website alone.

I purchased a trainer in person when I first started and it was more expensive than either Swole or Mastover. They didn't go into the nutritional component at all. I had to purchase a separate program that was even more expensive than the first. The thing is that I learned more about nutrition on the forum than I did from the "nutritionist".

Swole and Mastover know more than your average trainer at the local gym. And trust, that if John has them as a sponsor, then they must be good.

John has dropped sponsors in the past whenever their customer service has been less than adequate, like All The Whey.

Having a trainer online seems highly impersonal to me. I was wondering if people can offer up thoughts on this.
The only thing personal about "personal training" is that an offline trainer shows you how to perform exercises, encourages you, and makes sure you work hard enough. So, if you don't need someone to hold your hand, I don't know why you'd particularly benefit from an offline trainer over an online one. In either case, the training and nutrition programs are generated based on primarily objective data about you -- your stats and how you look. And, in either case, successive tweaks to your program are also based on this data and your responses, all of which can just as easily be provided online or over the phone. Ultimately, you get only what you put into a program, which is why you can be successfully trained over the internet.

Also, the common pitfall of hiring the local offline trainer is that they often really are no more than a glorified hand holder. Nutrition and training also hardly ever come packaged together offline as well. Without the proper diet to back up what you're doing in the gym, you might just end up spinning your wheels. (This, of course, just means more money for the hand holders.) What you're getting online with mastover, on the other hand, is the option for a complete program, coaching, and the experience of decades in athletics and bodybuilding.

I for one am quite happy this topic has been brought up. I was quite curious about what happened (as I had been gone from the forums when the change happened).

Thanks for the info.. When I'm less broke, I will certainly start up with Mastover. :tucool:

Well, there wasn't any drama. It was a business decision I made, and that's all there is to it.I guess what I was trying to say was that in his 'farewell address' he kind of made it sound like it was his choice.

I can't wait to one day work with Mastover! :tucool:

I guess what I was trying to say was that in his 'farewell address' he kind of made it sound like it was his choice.
Yeah, I know. It was unfortunate that Chris decided to do that, but I let it slide. The thread in question was ultimately removed because he elected to resume advertising his services in his forum posts after I terminated our partnership.

I'd really like it if we could move on now. As I said, the choice to terminate our partnership was nothing more than a business decision I felt was best for JSF.

Thank you to all for the replies. I have decided to go with Mastover. It's never an easy decision going into the unknown but his recommendations are solid and I'm genuinely looking forward to it.

I would like to make it clear that working with SC was a pleasure and whilst some may not agree with his general philosophy or approach, there is no doubt that his programme also gets results - you have no option but to lose fat on SGX. I never wanted this thread to turn into a place where one trainer is painted as being great whilst the other one is terrible.

However, getting up early for all that cardio every single day for three months was ok the first time but I have a feeling that a second stretch would drive me insane.

Just a note about the impersonal nature of this type of "training."

I was a trainer for several years, and have now used both SGX and Mastover. There is absolutely no comparison between the online programs and what you get from meeting face to face with a trainer.

As I see it, these online programs are meant for people like me...with good knowledge of how it all works, but need a little push in one direction or another (new program, new nutrition plan.) For folks like me, it's been great!

In my opinion, these guys can't replace what you would get with a face-to-face trainer, but considering you pay the same for a month with them that you'd pay for 2 sessions or less in the gym with a trainer, it's still a bargain.

All that being said, both Chris and Aram have good stuff going and seem to manage their clients in a very effective way. Both programs will lead to success if you follow them, and both have their place. I'm glad to have participated in both, and can't wait to see what the next month brings to my body comp!

As I see it, these online programs are meant for people like me...with good knowledge of how it all works, but need a little push in one direction or another (new program, new nutrition plan.) For folks like me, it's been great!

In my opinion, these guys can't replace what you would get with a face-to-face trainer, but considering you pay the same for a month with them that you'd pay for 2 sessions or less in the gym with a trainer, it's still a bargain.


I completely agree. I think the idea of "hand holding" is generally not perceived in a positive light, but I feel that the most important function of a personal trainer is to motivate you to want to remain consistent and continue exercising. The best way to do this is at a face to face interaction where you are accountable for every set and every rep and every gym session. Almost any program that works all the muscles equally will work just fine whether it's fullbody, low reps, high reps, splits...etc..etc. It's the ability to stay consistent that brings results and for that the "hand holding" is a great tool.

all of this information that you purchase from various online trainers can be found online for free...yes..ALL OF IT. There's no secret studies or significant knowledge that these trainers that hasn't been researched or documented. It's all here. Some trainers are more knowledgeable than others. And it helps when a trainer knows a thing or two about nutrition, but I still think the "hand holding" is one of the most important aspects of a personal trainer's job.

all of this information that you purchase from various online trainers can be found online for free...yes..ALL OF IT. There's no secret studies or significant knowledge that these trainers that hasn't been researched or documented. It's all here. Some trainers are more knowledgeable than others. And it helps when a trainer knows a thing or two about nutrition, but I still think the "hand holding" is one of the most important aspects of a personal trainer's job.


I don't think Aram, or Chris, has ever promised to do anything revolutionary. You are right when you say that all the information is available in some for to you online. But even with all that info there is still a fair amount of guessing that one has to do in order to acomplish their goals. Knowledgable trainers help eliminate the guesswork. If you want to but in the leg work and make many mistakes that you can learn from then reading what is online may be good enough for you. But there are others who want results quicker than that. Nothing wrong with either approach. Just depends on your preference.

Also, I think we'll have to agree to disagree as to which is better, on line or off line trainers. Personally, I can't have someone hold my hand along the way. I work better when I am self motivated. I won't do the work in the long run if I have to depend on someone to constantly walk me through the steps. On line trainers are better for me.

Others like going to the gym with friends or work with trainers that get in their face. On line trainers are NOT for them.

Also, I think we'll have to agree to disagree as to which is better, on line or off line trainers. Personally, I can't have someone hold my hand along the way. I work better when I am self motivated. I won't do the work in the long run if I have to depend on someone to constantly walk me through the steps. On line trainers are better for me.

This is a good point, and I actually think we agree here...online training isn't for everyone, nor is in-gym training. I suck at lessons of any sort...I've been playing guitar for a long time, and have tried lessons a handful of times. It always sucks for me, and I revert back to just finding some drills and licks to practice and my progress goes way up.

I had clients when I was training that never did anything I said outside of the gym, so their progress wasn't great, but they came 2x a week every week for years. Then I had guys that I would meet with every 12 weeks for a new program, and they did awesome. It really depends on your personal best way you make progress. Aram's stuff gave me that push I needed.

I'm halfway through my 3rd week, and already dropped another 2 pounds this week. I'll be sitting under 180 for the first time in a long time, and have the body fat % to go with it!

I don't think Aram, or Chris, has ever promised to do anything revolutionary. You are right when you say that all the information is available in some for to you online. But even with all that info there is still a fair amount of guessing that one has to do in order to acomplish their goals. Knowledgable trainers help eliminate the guesswork. If you want to but in the leg work and make many mistakes that you can learn from then reading what is online may be good enough for you. But there are others who want results quicker than that. Nothing wrong with either approach. Just depends on your preference.

Also, I think we'll have to agree to disagree as to which is better, on line or off line trainers. Personally, I can't have someone hold my hand along the way. I work better when I am self motivated. I won't do the work in the long run if I have to depend on someone to constantly walk me through the steps. On line trainers are better for me.

Others like going to the gym with friends or work with trainers that get in their face. On line trainers are NOT for them.

My post was not meant to discredit online trainers at all. They def. have their place and for some people (like yourself and MANY others) online training is the way to go. I was just trying to emphasize the positive aspects of motivation and accountability that "hand holding" provides. But like you said, we'll agree to disagree :)

BTW, I've read many of his posts and contributions on this forum and I think Mastover is great and anyone who chooses to work with him is def. getting there money's worth.

My post was not meant to discredit online trainers at all. They def. have their place and for some people (like yourself and MANY others) online training is the way to go. I was just trying to emphasize the positive aspects of motivation and accountability that "hand holding" provides. But like you said, we'll agree to disagree :)

BTW, I've read many of his posts and contributions on this forum and I think Mastover is great and anyone who chooses to work with him is def. getting there money's worth.

I know, I was just too lazy to hit the mult-quote button and address it to bear :).

Online personal training simply requires a little more effort on your part and is as "impersonal" as the end-user makes it (of course, the personality of the trainer on the other end has something to do with this as well). I've worked with three personal trainers in the past Five years. One in-person, and two online.

The two online trainers were Mastover and SC. I saw my greatest gains working with SC, but I have utilized his SGX program for much greater periods of time than I have Mastover's. I personally saw significant goals achieved with both their programs. And we have all seen numerous examples of great successes from both of these trainers and that speaks volumes.

Email them both. Talk to them. Then decide for yourself who's for you.

-R

I've worked with Chris in the past and am now working with Aram. The following is my experience.

I lost a fair amount of weight with Chris. The regimented approach helped initially but the repetition eventually wore me out. He is very rigid about his program and will not make any changes. This is definitely not a long term program. I lost a great deal of strength in the three months that I was on SGX. However, I can't complain too much because I did lose a fair amount of fat, which was my goal. Chris's communication is not something to be desired. There were way too many email issues during my time with him.

I've been working with Aram for about 2 months now. My weight loss has been minimal compared to SGX. However, I've been gaining muscle and strength throughout the two months. Aram's nutritional program is something you can stick with for a very long time and I think this would help in the long run. Finally, Aram's communication has been excellent. For the most part, he gets back to me within minutes of my email. His communication shows that he cares about your success in your goals.

Chris's communication is not something to be desired. There were way too many email issues during my time with him.
This surprises me, when I was working with Chris (back in early 2005) his communication was stellar...within a few minutes like you mentioned with Aram. Perhaps that's changed.

Chris's communication is not something to be desired. There were way too many email issues during my time with him.


Same.

He claimed to not receive e-mail messages from multiple e-mail address sources, when I tried to accommodate his "situation." Even though he was able to send to those addresses.

I was not satisfied with my experience.

Thanks to everyone who offered thoughts on my question. Both sides are basically the things that I had already considered in my head before I asked the question but it was nice to see the thought processes and discussions layed out here.

Thanks again!

To be honest I'm nowhere near the time, either because I want to achieve specific goals on my own or my economic situation, that I'll have an online trainer, but I like to consider things early and this is a fantastic thread.

I know that the discussion in here has been pretty blunt, but I hope this thread won't be deleted because of that. I think it's good to see these reviews, even if they aren't necessarily the happiest thing.

I've tried sgx a couple of years ago.
My body doesn't respond to that particular protocol.
I felt lethargic;i couldn't lift beans.
The volume was too much for me with the caloric intake prescribed- no thanks!
I also don't believe that training is beneficial to a hardgainer as myself, especially with all that cardio.

I have/ am using Aram's nutrition protocol, a modified version if you will.
Caloric set point was too low for me so I had to tweak it a bit.
Nothing mysterious with the nutrition...he get's the ratios in order for ya.

Bottom line is both protocols will yield results-It's up to you to follow through.

I have never used a trainer, off or on line. There was only one I asked some questions. Because he had been around a long time and kept a body that I would want to achieve, it wasn't a certain timeframe game but all the time. You knew genes ruled, but even those with genes don't keep the body up to them all the time.

I suggest people read and study. Devote as much time to this as a college course. I have hundreds of magazines and about 100 books and usually buy more each year even though I only use one method. I change exercises around.

I do like Mastover's style. But we should get on and let subject die.:cool:

I'm going to write more later on this topic. I haven't used Mastover, but I have used another guy's approach, as well as SGX. I did SGX first, then continued my cut after a maintenance break with another trainer (not sure if I'm allowed to mention who, but I should say he's in pretty tight with Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald).

I am now bulking with this same guy. I also feel I've come a LONG way since January of last year, both in terms of physique, training, and in my understanding of nutrition, both theoretically, practically, and psychologically.

The bottom line is:

SGX = dogma

It works. It's braindead. It's cookie-cutter. It is NOT innovative in the slightest, and it is ridiculously inflexible. It is far too much OCD burden for too little gain. There were an assload of recommended supplements, a huge list of "no-no" food groups, and absurd amounts of LISS in the morning, fasted. The feeding schedule was rigid and obsessive, and it was a full-time job just keeping up with the shopping/food prep side of SGX, let alone the training.

When I went on the second cut (and then bulk), I used something infinitely more flexible. My results were BETTER. I didn't use supplements beyond fish oil and a multivitamin. I never felt hungry or deprived. The training was ENJOYABLE (high intensity, low volume). And cardio was more sane.

Best of all, with the new trainer, I got the feeling that the guy behind my numbers/spreadsheet/emails was not only a responsive human being, but someone with MORE than half a brain. Someone who understood science and physiology and had multiple references from PubMed to back up each and every one of his claims. When he didn't, he would admit it and say that something new he was trying was working with many clients, and maybe PubMed articles 1, 2, and 3 offer potential support.

NIGHT AND DAY, folks. I will never go back to SGX or anything similar.

Also, and this came up in the Alan Aragon thread... I have nothing against SC, he helped me get started and I owe him a great debt, but taking advice from a guy as monstrous as him seems a bit nutty. I don't see how someone could've gotten as jacked as he is without juicing at some point in his past. I'm not making any accusation at all because that is unfair and libellous, but seriously -- have you seen the guy's pics? He looks like a mini Ronnie Coleman.

I have never worked with mastover, not yet anyway, and I hate to rag on SGX. SGX got me down to 147 and very lean which was the goal yes, but like most have stated it wasn't that enjoyable. Calories were extremely low, and LISS every day...plus the day I emailed chris and he said he didn't have any of my info or remember who I was and I needed to email him all the info he sent me...that really made me mad.

I have never worked with a trainer. I have done various training methods including Body For Life, Crossfit and MAX-OT. I really do prefer to find out what exercises, cardio, nutrition and supplements work for me. I also like hearing what others do, which is a big reason I frequent JSF.

I do work out at our local YMCA and find the trainers there to be invaluable when it comes to checking my form. I don't ask them to plan my workouts for me, but if I'm doing heavy deads and I want them to check if my back is arching, they are great.

I guess it's all up to the individual.

I'm going to write more later on this topic. I haven't used Mastover, but I have used another guy's approach, as well as SGX. I did SGX first, then continued my cut after a maintenance break with another trainer (not sure if I'm allowed to mention who, but I should say he's in pretty tight with Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald).

I am now bulking with this same guy. I also feel I've come a LONG way since January of last year, both in terms of physique, training, and in my understanding of nutrition, both theoretically, practically, and psychologically.

The bottom line is:

SGX = dogma

It works. It's braindead. It's cookie-cutter. It is NOT innovative in the slightest, and it is ridiculously inflexible. It is far too much OCD burden for too little gain. There were an assload of recommended supplements, a huge list of "no-no" food groups, and absurd amounts of LISS in the morning, fasted. The feeding schedule was rigid and obsessive, and it was a full-time job just keeping up with the shopping/food prep side of SGX, let alone the training.

When I went on the second cut (and then bulk), I used something infinitely more flexible. My results were BETTER. I didn't use supplements beyond fish oil and a multivitamin. I never felt hungry or deprived. The training was ENJOYABLE (high intensity, low volume). And cardio was more sane.

Best of all, with the new trainer, I got the feeling that the guy behind my numbers/spreadsheet/emails was not only a responsive human being, but someone with MORE than half a brain. Someone who understood science and physiology and had multiple references from PubMed to back up each and every one of his claims. When he didn't, he would admit it and say that something new he was trying was working with many clients, and maybe PubMed articles 1, 2, and 3 offer potential support.

NIGHT AND DAY, folks. I will never go back to SGX or anything similar.

Also, and this came up in the Alan Aragon thread... I have nothing against SC, he helped me get started and I owe him a great debt, but taking advice from a guy as monstrous as him seems a bit nutty. I don't see how someone could've gotten as jacked as he is without juicing at some point in his past. I'm not making any accusation at all because that is unfair and libellous, but seriously -- have you seen the guy's pics? He looks like a mini Ronnie Coleman.

Aragon's the shit, so is Lyle.
Who you training with?

I hated every minute of sgx...all 4 weeks of it! lol

I wish more people would have come out of the closet when he was a sponsor here instead of swinging from him.
MYSELF INCLUDED:lol:

The program itself is a spin off of Rob Faigen's Natural Hormonal Enhancement...although not even close to what Rob has presented.

SGX works great for me. I am simply over due for something different. When I was a client of Chris's, he was always very kind and very prompt. I have done both of his programs. Cutting and bulking. I didn't like how there was only one lifting protocol though. It was like limiting the educational value of the program. That is my only complaint...if I had one. I am fascinated to learn a totally new approach and of course, the amount sleep I'll be getting from not doing cardio every single day.
Hopfully Chris isn't getting a bad rap here. :lol: His programs are solid.

what a change....

back in the day he and his SGX program were worshiped on these boards..

well maybe not worshiped but def. lots of respect.

I think the same happened with Jeremy Likeness?

I think the same happened with Jeremy Likeness?

really? I don't remember that.

I actually have Jeremy's book and I have to say it is very good. While none of the information is particularly innovative or new, it is all presented in a logical and intelligent manner. He also writes about his own personal struggle which was interesting to read. I think his book is a very good resource, especially for someone just starting out. It really offers a great unbiased perspective on fat loss.

Sadly, I think this is very true. Chris was a pleasure to work with, and was very polite and prompt. I in no way feel like I was ripped off with his programs or anything like that. I WAS a satisfied customer.

However, I never felt like he stayed 'current'. He dismissed new ides that differed from his fitness ideologies pretty quickly.

On a side note, I ironically just removed his forums from my favorites folder this morning cause of the severe lack of activity on them. That place is a serious ghost town these days. Then this thread pops up...weird.


I really liked Chris and had some good discussions with him on the phone when I started my SGX. The problem I had was I couldn't really make the program work as well as it should because of a hellish schedule. It's enough that I have meals to deal with and constant work I can't really slug it out in the Gym 2x/day or do the morning cardio.

Also I can't do ECA stacks due to medical issues so I have to rely on my own thermostat to burn.

I'd definitely like to check out Mastover and see what's up. I think Chris could have been a bit more open-minded but he was a really cool guy either way.

really? I don't remember that.

I actually have Jeremy's book and I have to say it is very good. While none of the information is particularly innovative or new, it is all presented in a logical and intelligent manner. He also writes about his own personal struggle which was interesting to read. I think his book is a very good resource, especially for someone just starting out. It really offers a great unbiased perspective on fat loss.


Well, I don't know if people "came out" after he left. Like in this thread. I wasn't around much during his departure.

I just remember, he was around helping people, offering his service, and then he wasn't.

I spoke with him a few times, he had called me to ask how things were going, even though I wasn't a customer. He was a pretty nice guy.

I guess it doesn't really matter. Water under the bridge.

Edit: it's more or less the curiousity in me wondering what happened to Jeremy

I think the same happened with Jeremy Likeness?

I didn't see anything negative about Jeremy, I think he backed out of training and went into business. This isn't a site where people are attacked, usually, here or gone. hate to see it now

I remember that aragon coming around, glad he passed thru.

That reminds me to point out, there isn't anything new under the sun.

I don't know if people are necessarily attacking, but they are offering up some blunt opinions about services they paid for.

These are honest reviews I think that are needed.

I don't know if people are necessarily attacking, but they are offering up some blunt opinions about services they paid for.

These are honest reviews I think that are needed.

I agree. I'm sure if I had had a bad experience with his pograms, I would be speaking out as well.

I remember that aragon coming around, glad he passed thru.



He did put a few people in their place.;)

I don't know if people are necessarily attacking, but they are offering up some blunt opinions about services they paid for.

These are honest reviews I think that are needed.

I guess the thing that I find a little odd is that here, the reviews are mostly negative with regard to SGX -- yet, when SC was a sponsor here, the reviews were uniformly glowing (from the ones I read). Kind of makes me wonder why people aren't honest in the first place. Why does it take a sponsor leaving before we get honest opinions?

I suppose I can understand it on some level -- Those with negative experiences don't want to create waves, but people should realize that even the negative reviews are helpful. The purpose of the reviews isn't to suck up to the sponsor, but to get an honest opinion about the sponsor's services/products. We need to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly if we are going to make decision about whether to purchase a product or service -- especially when plunking down a significant amount of cash.

This isn't a site where people are attacked, usually, here or gone. hate to see it now
Huh? No one is being "attacked" here. Every comment in this thread (with the exception of one, which I quickly removed) has been honest feedback that directly relates to the subject of this thread.


I guess the thing that I find a little odd is that here, the reviews are mostly negative with regard to SGX -- yet, when SC was a sponsor here, the reviews were uniformly glowing (from the ones I read). Kind of makes me wonder why people aren't honest in the first place. Why does it take a sponsor leaving before we get honest opinions?

I've been thinking about this, too.

I've always encouraged honest reviews of our sponsors, and--for the most part--we get them.

I remember a couple of people who were not satisfied with SGX mentioned their experiences to me privately. I encouraged them to post their reviews publicly. They never did.

I honestly think people were reluctant to post anything negative about Chris while he was a sponsor here. Let's be honest, Chris doesn't exactly have a glowing track record when it comes to dealing with criticism. I think the outpouring of comments we are seeing now are because people finally feel like they can post them without having to deal with the Wrath of SC.

I regret that I allowed a sponsor to continue here as long as I did with that sort of oppressive "atmosphere". I take responsibility for that.

To be clear, I want everyone here to always feel free to post honest, constructive feedback (good and bad) about our sponsors.

Good points John -- In fact, since my post, I've heard from a few people, and they mirror the points you make above.


On a positive note, it is good that we are getting perspectives that we didn't get previously.

I remember a few posters being honest and the the whole rest telling them they were wrong, etc...

I just thought I’d chip in with my honest review of being on SGX.

The good:
-It certainly got me lean, I was due to go on holiday after 12 weeks and I got the results I wanted.

-SC was very detailed in his email replies, often sending back more than a few paragraphs to my simple questions.

-When my progress stalled he did (eventually, I’ll get back to this) send me a modified eating plan.

-He demanded regular photo updates and always gave positive, supportive and encouraging feedback.

-In my opinion the eating plan was easy to follow.

The bad:
-He was often blighted with email problems (messages not arriving or being not received). Maybe SC isn’t the most technically minded person in the world because it felt like his email solution was something straight from 1992. I’m pretty sure a simple yahoo or Gmail account wouldn’t have given him the same problems. When my progress stalled it took a couple of weeks of chasing to finally get my modified eating plan (email problems) – time I couldn’t afford to lose.

-Uncertainly as to whether he was contactable. He operated strict ‘office hours’ so, living in the UK, I was never sure that my messages were getting through.

-Going to sleep with huge hunger pangs.

-The LISS cardio every day for 3 months got boring ultra-quick.

The summary:

I can honestly say that I had a positive experience on SGX. It wasn’t that physically demanding to follow. It’s quite a brutal boot camp style approach to losing fat - and whilst others may not have liked it I appreciated the boundaries because I could see results very soon.

My main reason for trying Mastover this time is that doing SGX the second time around, knowing that you have 90 consecutive days of early morning cardio, it hard to get motivated for.

Aragon's the shit, so is Lyle.
Who you training with?

I really like Lyle's stuff, he doesn't just talk about the numbers.

Yeah i like to know who you were training with too. :)

Now I've personally had a wonderful experience working with Mastover while getting ready for my competition last year (before he became a sponsor here) and I had amazing results.

While working with Mastover and utilizing alot of the knowledge he has passed on through the forum, PM's, and various people I've went to lose 40 lbs, gain a good amount of muscle, and learned so much.

I personally never worked with SC. I thought about it but after dealing with Mastover I never had a real need to work with anyone else.

I wanted results Mastover was able to provide.:bow:

I guess the thing that I find a little odd is that here, the reviews are mostly negative with regard to SGX -- yet, when SC was a sponsor here, the reviews were uniformly glowing (from the ones I read). Kind of makes me wonder why people aren't honest in the first place. Why does it take a sponsor leaving before we get honest opinions?What I'm seeing in this thread is 'hindsight' negativity, not coming out of hiding bashing cause he's gone. Speaking for myself for example, I was happy when I was working SC's plans. I was getting results and he was great to work with. At the time there was nothing negative I had to say. But as some time has passed, I've furthered my reading and gained some different perspective, and in hindsight there were/are some flaws to what Chris puts out there. I think that's more the sort of thing this thread is perpetuating.

I have worked SGX in the past and enjoyed my experience. I feel though that the program itself but while effective having to go to the gym twice a day (early morning cardio + evening workout) is very taxing on ones personal life. And while, I understand no pain no gain - in my opinion, life to to short to spend that much time at the gym. I had no other issues with the program but like Teflon Dom said it is very had to be motivated and want to do SGX again knowing 90 consecutive days of cardio..

I am now working with Matsover and enjoying every minute of it. The program is simple, and effective. Plus, as an added bonus I am actually learning about eating right so I can keep the momentum going after my consultation period without all of the cardio.


The only down sides to each program (and online trainers in general) is the lack of in-gym lifting questions / technique. A lot of lifting / techniques I have had to learn by trail and error which has taken a lot of time.

:tu:

I was very leary of doing any type of personal training online, and I admit over 2 years I watched the SGX program be raved about on this forum. Which led me to email Chris, anyone that wouldn't provide me a phone number and would only take "certain" payments that were unusual for business transactions struck me as odd, but I had to hurry cause he only had 2 spots left. I waited about 6 months and sent another email and got basically the same response, hurry only 2 spots left. That did it for me as for SGX, never tried it.

Now here I am seeing the same thing with Mastover, I haven't emailed him yet but now I'm so turned off by this stuff I don't know who to trust. As long as I'm being honest John raved about SGX it was a sponsor he gave him $, Now John raves about Mastover he is a sponsor he gives him $.

I'm a racer I know how the sponsor game works!! I'd pimp for satan if he gave me money to pay my bills and go racing. Mastover throw me a bone, let me try your program and I'll be a consumer advocate and follow it and if it works I'd be your unpaid salesman for eternity. I'm 5'8 210 want to cut to 15-18%.... I don't mean to be rude but am beginning to think this is all a bunch of ..well you know.

I was very leary of doing any type of personal training online, and I admit over 2 years I watched the SGX program be raved about on this forum. Which led me to email Chris, anyone that wouldn't provide me a phone number and would only take "certain" payments that were unusual for business transactions struck me as odd, but I had to hurry cause he only had 2 spots left. I waited about 6 months and sent another email and got basically the same response, hurry only 2 spots left. That did it for me as for SGX, never tried it.

Now here I am seeing the same thing with Mastover, I haven't emailed him yet but now I'm so turned off by this stuff I don't know who to trust. As long as I'm being honest John raved about SGX it was a sponsor he gave him $, Now John raves about Mastover he is a sponsor he gives him $.

I'm a racer I know how the sponsor game works!! I'd pimp for satan if he gave me money to pay my bills and go racing. Mastover throw me a bone, let me try your program and I'll be a consumer advocate and follow it and if it works I'd be your unpaid salesman for eternity. I'm 5'8 210 want to cut to 15-18%.... I don't mean to be rude but am beginning to think this is all a bunch of ..well you know.

Seems although your mind in made already man, Maybe you should try a starting strength routine or circuit training or something to shed some of the bodyfat off first before going into a tailored programe anyhow.

I was very leary of doing any type of personal training online, and I admit over 2 years I watched the SGX program be raved about on this forum. Which led me to email Chris, anyone that wouldn't provide me a phone number and would only take "certain" payments that were unusual for business transactions struck me as odd, but I had to hurry cause he only had 2 spots left. I waited about 6 months and sent another email and got basically the same response, hurry only 2 spots left. That did it for me as for SGX, never tried it.

Now here I am seeing the same thing with Mastover, I haven't emailed him yet but now I'm so turned off by this stuff I don't know who to trust. As long as I'm being honest John raved about SGX it was a sponsor he gave him $, Now John raves about Mastover he is a sponsor he gives him $.

I'm a racer I know how the sponsor game works!! I'd pimp for satan if he gave me money to pay my bills and go racing. Mastover throw me a bone, let me try your program and I'll be a consumer advocate and follow it and if it works I'd be your unpaid salesman for eternity. I'm 5'8 210 want to cut to 15-18%.... I don't mean to be rude but am beginning to think this is all a bunch of ..well you know.

Well then maybe you noticed that John has dropped anyone like rocks whenever they haven't met customer's needs.

I raved about SGX at the time, it served my purposes but I evolved and I didn't feel that it evolved with me. I still think it's good for some people (like those who need to get into a set routine or are beginners). It also seems like Chris had better service in his early years, better at returning emails and things like that. You probably contacted him when his customer service wasn't as good.

His responses were usually quick when I was with him. Mastover's responses are also quick and he does talk to you more about why he makes the diet changes, this makes all the difference in the world.

Guess we're all different, I'm more weary of throwing my money at a local trainer.

What I'm seeing in this thread is 'hindsight' negativity, not coming out of hiding bashing cause he's gone. Speaking for myself for example, I was happy when I was working SC's plans. I was getting results and he was great to work with. At the time there was nothing negative I had to say. But as some time has passed, I've furthered my reading and gained some different perspective, and in hindsight there were/are some flaws to what Chris puts out there. I think that's more the sort of thing this thread is perpetuating.

I totally agree with this, SGX is awesome and definitely delivers - but sometimes you just want a little more flexibility, I have not tried Mastover's program but am definitely considering it now for that very reason.

Like everyone else has said, the morning cardio is very time consuming - it was fine for me last year when I was still in college and classes didnt even start till 11am, but its infinitely harder now with work, especially with the 40min commute time. I don't think Chris's plan had any flaws per se, as it never would have had so much success if it did, but I think its just too strict. Its almost as if you have to schedule your life around it rather than adapting it to your life, or at the very least making it flexible to you.

I was very leary of doing any type of personal training online, and I admit over 2 years I watched the SGX program be raved about on this forum. Which led me to email Chris, anyone that wouldn't provide me a phone number and would only take "certain" payments that were unusual for business transactions struck me as odd, but I had to hurry cause he only had 2 spots left. I waited about 6 months and sent another email and got basically the same response, hurry only 2 spots left. That did it for me as for SGX, never tried it.

Now here I am seeing the same thing with Mastover, I haven't emailed him yet but now I'm so turned off by this stuff I don't know who to trust. As long as I'm being honest John raved about SGX it was a sponsor he gave him $, Now John raves about Mastover he is a sponsor he gives him $.

I'm a racer I know how the sponsor game works!! I'd pimp for satan if he gave me money to pay my bills and go racing. Mastover throw me a bone, let me try your program and I'll be a consumer advocate and follow it and if it works I'd be your unpaid salesman for eternity. I'm 5'8 210 want to cut to 15-18%.... I don't mean to be rude but am beginning to think this is all a bunch of ..well you know.

I am a current client of Mastover (Aram Hamparian) and am 110% satisfied. Normally I don't engage in online debates on any topic, and don't plan on starting now; however, in this case I am coming to the defense of Mastover so no one who reads this gets the wrong impression. I cannot speak for Chris and SGX as I've never used that program or had any contact with him.

Speaking solely of my 8 weeks of experience with Aram, I can tell you the following. He has ALWAYS gotten back to me promptly whenever I have sent him an email. When I say promptly, that means always the same day, most times within an hour or two. He has never given me a canned sales pitch as I don't respond well to those. Aram takes a personal interest in your progress and is constantly tweaking both the nutrition and weight training aspects of achieving your goals.

I don't expect miracles, at least not from Aram. (I don't mean that in a bad way, but as a Christian who walks in his faith everyday, I do know that God does miracles.) What I expect from Aram is exactly what he gives me. Guidance and instruction as I try to achieve my goals for my body and my health overall.

I would also add, that I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I've worked with many trainers in the past and represented a fair number of them in my previous experience as an attorney. I know the real deal from the pretenders. Aram is the real deal. I am familiar with trainers who think they have the "secret formula" for weight loss and muscle gain. If Aram were that type of trainer, I would have picked up on that in a heartbeat. From reading his posts on this site, I know that he constantly strives to keep himself updated on the latest information available in the fitness world.

I've asked him many questions as we've gone along and he has patiently answered all of them without fail.

Like most of us I wish I could make quicker progress, but I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day. Since following Aram's program 8 weeks ago, my bodyfat has gone down from 18.4% to 13.5%. I wasn't overweight to start with, but just needed to do a body recomposition (culking so to speak).

Mastover is not a paid sponsor of mine and he didn't ask me to write this. In fact, I hope I don't embarrass him. I've not heard one negative comment thus far about him. You are free to check my own journal under the heading "Mauidude's Mastover Makeover."

(Sorry Aram - I know you don't need me to defend you, but I don't like to see people attacked indirectly.)

I was very leary of doing any type of personal training online, and I admit over 2 years I watched the SGX program be raved about on this forum. Which led me to email Chris, anyone that wouldn't provide me a phone number and would only take "certain" payments that were unusual for business transactions struck me as odd, but I had to hurry cause he only had 2 spots left. I waited about 6 months and sent another email and got basically the same response, hurry only 2 spots left. That did it for me as for SGX, never tried it.

Now here I am seeing the same thing with Mastover, I haven't emailed him yet but now I'm so turned off by this stuff I don't know who to trust. As long as I'm being honest John raved about SGX it was a sponsor he gave him $, Now John raves about Mastover he is a sponsor he gives him $.

I'm a racer I know how the sponsor game works!! I'd pimp for satan if he gave me money to pay my bills and go racing. Mastover throw me a bone, let me try your program and I'll be a consumer advocate and follow it and if it works I'd be your unpaid salesman for eternity. I'm 5'8 210 want to cut to 15-18%.... I don't mean to be rude but am beginning to think this is all a bunch of ..well you know.

I had the exact same reaction when reading this thread, and i almost made a post, but decided not to. However, i decided to try Mastover's 1 Month diet and training program anyways just to see. It's been almost two weeks now, and i have absolutely no complaints. Mastover has always answered my e-mails promptly, and well. Also, as most others have said, he really gives me the feeling that he cares, and it motivates me, i just get that across his e-mails.

Also, the program that he gave me is very easy to follow, extremely flexible, and it works. The worries i once had before signing up to Mastover's program are all gone now.

Racinrob's post did not sound like an attack on Mastover. I think he wants some honest opinions before "jumping on the wagon". Instead of just posting positive reviews, how about some negatives? room for improvements? etc.

If you look at the "fitness gurus" (Cosgrove, Waterbury, Shugart, Berardi, etc.), they all seem to promote one another...every product someone comes out with, the others rave about them. Just as movies and restaurants and everything else are reviewed by the public and experts, it would be nice to see some reviews that touch on both positives and negatives.

I've never tried SGX or Mastover. And, this post is in no way an attack on anyone. I'm just posting my thoughts. Thanks.

I can remember when SwoleCat was worshipped here....like a deity from some other bodybuilding universe....who had knowledge far beyond anything us mere mortals could comprehend.

What the hell happened?

If something works ...it works....many of the techniques and exes used by lifters today are from decades ago.

Why are Chris Januz's methods considered "dogma" and "not in keeping with the times"?

It seemed like when he was here, everyone was flocking to him in droves.....singing nothing but praise...:confused:

I can remember when SwoleCat was worshipped here....like a deity from some other bodybuilding universe....who had knowledge far beyond anything us mere mortals could comprehend.

What the hell happened?

If something works ...it works....many of the techniques and exes used by lifters today are from decades ago.

Why are Chris Januz's methods considered "dogma" and "not in keeping with the times"?

It seemed like when he was here, everyone was flocking to him in droves.....singing nothing but praise...:confused:

The nice thing about SGX was that it guaranteed results...no matter what way you look at it. It was very effective. The problem is that it wasn't efficient and it was highly rigid (very little flexibility in the program). Your entire life had to adapt around SGX.

SC's entire program ran on the concept of macronutrient ratios and his marketing was all about giving you some magical or precise ratios that he had developed that was formulated specifically for you, and not work for anybody else. At the time, macronutrient manipulation was a hot subject on the internet and in various media. I even remember men's health writing articles on it as well as John Berardi writing an entire book on it. Everyone was jumping on the macronutrient band-wagon, and hence swole was very popular. In retrospect, I think his "formula" was more hype and marketing than actual value. The thing is, if the formula was perfect, you would not need his consultation period so that he would re-adjust the plan every week. Anyone can go on a low carb diet and then tweak the macronutrients from week to week depending on how they look/feel.

Also, according to some people in this thread, Chris's communication was not very good (although I personally had no problems sending him emails at the time that I was a client).

Finally, I think it has been mentioned, but there were several threads around here where someone tried to argue with SC and he either did not take the criticism well or out-right refused to participate in a civilized debate.

Again, remember, SGX WORKS...if you do it, it will get you cut! But there are far better programs out there that are simply more life-style friendly and up-to-date (for example- implementing different styles of cardio as compared to the one-way protocol offered in SGX) .

I have worked with both and would defo go with mastover im currently using his programme now with terrific results. Aram is the best by far.:nod: