I'm currently working out 4 times a week, and my squat is starting to plateau due to the fact my back/shoulders just can't go as heavy as my legs. So I am thinking of mixing it up with breathing squats for a few weeks on my leg day (substituting my quad-dom leg day with 4 sets x 20 breathing squats)

The question I have is will it be feasible to continue the rest of my routine as normal, or will I require additional rest? Obviously, every person is different, but I am curious what the general experience is.

I'm currently working out 4 times a week, and my squat is starting to plateau due to the fact my back/shoulders just can't go as heavy as my legs. So I am thinking of mixing it up with breathing squats for a few weeks on my leg day (substituting my quad-dom leg day with 4 sets x 20 breathing squats)
In my experience, 20-rep breathing squats were actually very hard on my upperbody. I don't normally have this problem with higher weights but I found staying tight for that long to be difficult.

As far as recovery, it was about normal. I was only doing one set of twenty, though.

Breathing squats are 1 set of 20 reps. If you can do more than one set then you didn't go heavy enough.

You couldn't do this 4x per week. Maybe twice. I can only do it once. It is brutal.

I'm currently working out 4 times a week, and my squat is starting to plateau due to the fact my back/shoulders just can't go as heavy as my legs.

I'm really not sure what you mean. Are you talking about your lower back rounding when you come out of the hole?

My whole body feels like its been run over by a semi after a set of breathing squats.

Nevermind my legs.

My whole body feels like its been run over by a semi after a set of breathing squats.

Nevermind my legs.

I never done breathing squats but if i remember correctly your suppose to use about your 10RM and after 10 reps your to basically use rest/pause techniques without racking the bar. If that's the case 4 sets would be very improbable, if possible at all.

I never done breathing squats but if i remember correctly your suppose to use about your 10RM and after 10 reps your to basically use rest/pause techniques without racking the bar. If that's the case 4 sets would be very improbable, if possible at all.

No, not rounding the back. I am talking about what I can support on my shoulders without causing serious compression (since I don't have the best trap development yet).

Yes, that does seem a tad unrealistic :lol: now that I think of it. I think I was searching through old posts and found mastover talking about his 5 x 20 breathing squat routine, and others saying they do 3-4 sets. But for a noob, 1 should probably suffice.

EDIT: If doing only 1 set, what else could be incorporated into that workout day? Split Squats? Should I treat it like a normal leg day?

My whole body feels like its been run over by a semi after a set of breathing squats.

Nevermind my legs.

:tu: Thanks for the input!

No, not rounding the back. I am talking about what I can support on my shoulders without causing serious compression (since I don't have the best trap development yet).

Yes, that does seem a tad unrealistic :lol: now that I think of it. I think I was searching through old posts and found mastover talking about his 5 x 20 breathing squat routine, and others saying they do 3-4 sets. But for a noob, 1 should probably suffice.

EDIT: If doing only 1 set, what else could be incorporated into that workout day? Split Squats? Should I treat it like a normal leg day?

No problem in doing 4x20 but it won't be true breathing squats for what i described and remember Mastover is advanced and has very high work capacity.

You could throw in some RDL's and split squats whatever you favor. It depends on how many leg sessions you perform per week.

Like to add i really can't see 4x20 representing at least %60 of your 1RM so in my opinion your much better served using a different set/rep scheme for muscle growth.

Yes, that does seem a tad unrealistic :lol: now that I think of it. I think I was searching through old posts and found mastover talking about his 5 x 20 breathing squat routine, and others saying they do 3-4 sets. But for a noob, 1 should probably suffice.

EDIT: If doing only 1 set, what else could be incorporated into that workout day? Split Squats? Should I treat it like a normal leg day?

If I remember correctly, Mastover does a workout that consists of 10x20x225 about once a year to test himself.

And here's his 20 rep squat program, for posterity :):

The following 3 day per week workout doesn't look like much, but it is extremely deceptive. If you plan on eating at maintenence or below. Don't even bother with this one. You'll easily overtain. EAT and EAT. Bump up the protein, put heavy cream in your shakes, eat your oatmeal and sweet potatoes.

Monday
Bench Press: warm up, then 2-3 sets x 12 reps
Bent Row: warm up, then 2-3 sets x 15 reps
Breathing Squat: warm up, then 1 set x 20 reps
Breathing Pullover or Rader Chest Pull: 1 set x 20 reps
Straight-leg Deadlift: warm up, then 2 sets x 15 reps

Wednesday
Shoulder Press (front, behind-neck or with dumbbells): warm up, then 2 x 10
Barbell Curl: warm up then 2 x 10
Parallel Bar Dips: 1 x as many as possible, if you reach 30 reps, add weight.
Close-grip Chin with hands facing you: 1 set of as many reps as possible, if you can’t make fifteen reps on your first set, add a second set so that the cumulative reps equals fifteen. (“Cumulative reps” mean you add the reps that you got both sets together.) Add weight if you ever get to 30 reps on your first set.
Ab work
Calf Work

Friday
Repeat Monday’s workout, adding weight to any exercise that you reached the goal number of reps on the first set. Doesn’t look like much?



THE PROGRAM IN DETAIL

Monday and Friday

1. I started with the bench press (I now use the incline press.) Warm-up, but don’t wear out. Let’s say your working weight will be 245 pounds for your two sets. Start with some active stretching, then six to ten reps with 135, five reps with 185, and finally one rep with 225. Now add a ten-pound plate to each side and get psyched. The goal is twelve reps. Don’t hold back. This is the set that counts. If you reach twelve reps on your first set – stop! Rest three minutes then try to get twelve reps again. It doesn’t matter if you do or not, you made your goal so you add five pounds next workout (just a measly 2 1/2-pound plate to each side). If you do not reach twelve reps on either set, then stay with the same weight next workout.

2. The next exercise is the bent row. You follow the same basic procedure as you did for the bench press but your target is fifteen reps. This one will surprise you, especially if you have been doing sets of ten or fewer on this exercise. You can just about get fifteen reps with what you thought was your ten-rep limit. You will be breathing when you’re done though. If your working weight is going to be 185 pounds, you’d do a warm-up set with 95 (optional), 135 for six to eight, and then go to 185 and try for fifteen. Remember the warm-up set is just that – a warm-up and that the work sets are WORK! If you get fifteen reps on either set add five pounds for your next workout. If you think these five-pound jumps are silly or too easy just remember that you will do these same exercises for sixteen workouts over the next eight weeks and a fivepound jump per workout equates to a 75 pound increase over the length of the program. Just think about that!

3. Now comes the keystone of the program — the breathing squat. This exercise has been around longer than. You may want to try the traditional approach to the breathing squat as your weight increases and your physical conditioning improves. In this approach you take five, full, deep breaths before each rep — even the first. On your sixth breath — hold it — squat to slightly below parallel — come up as you blow out the air — then five more breaths and repeat until you get twenty or even twenty-five reps. Whew!

Each workout add ten pounds to the bar if you successfully completed your twenty reps the previous workout. Since there are two squat workouts per week, you’ll be using your original ten-rep max for twenty reps by the end of the third week. After that add five pounds each workout for the final five weeks. Believe it or not, you’ll be squatting for twenty reps with fifty pounds more than your previous ten-rep max. No wonder this program works!

Let me warn you. This exercise is not easy. If it is you are not taking it seriously enough. You’ll want to stop before you hit twenty, maybe even feel dizzy, but don’t quit — get twenty!

4. After your set of twenty-rep squats, lie down lengthwise on a bench and do twenty reps of the straight-arm pullover with a very light weight (fifteen to twenty pounds is all you need). The purpose of this exercise is to inhale as much oxygen as possible so take the deepest breath as you can each rep.

5. The final exercise is the straight-leg deadlift. You will eventually work up to a pretty fair poundage in this exercise but start conservatively. Remember, you have sixteen workout sessions where your goal is to improve five pounds per session. Keep your back flat when performing this exercise. Warmup as on the other exercises, then two work sets striving for fifteen reps as your target on the first set. Same weight for as many reps as you can get on the second after a three-minute rest period. Add five pounds the next workout if you reach fifteen reps on your first (or second) work set.

I know this is a lot less sets than you are used to. But think about doing twenty reps in the squat with a weight fifty pounds more than your current ten-rep max eight weeks from now. Imagine how that will affect your metabolism, particularly your anabolic hormonal environment. There is nothing that will increase your natural growth hormone levels than a single set of twenty rep squats as described above. And, when you have completed this program and go back to a more traditional type of program, envision fi rst the increased strength and muscular endurance you will have developed, and second how you will respond to the varied stimulus of increased volume with the heavier weights you have achieved.

Wednesday
1. Shoulder Press — do one light warm-up set of eight to ten reps, a heavier warm up set for five to six reps, then two all out work sets with a target of ten reps. Use the same weight for both work sets. If you get ten reps on your first (or second) set that means you go up five pounds next week (or after the first couple of weeks 2 1/2 pounds, if possible). This workout is performed just once a week for a total of eight workouts over the course of the program. Still, it will be very difficult to increase five pounds each week in the press and curl. I’d recommend getting some 1 1/4 pound plates or "platemates" and taking them to the gym with you so you can increase just 2 1/2 pounds per week on these exercises.

2. Barbell Curl — same procedure as shoulder press.

3. Parallel Bar Dips — no warm-up needed but do the first few reps very slowly to avoid injury. Do as many reps as you can for one set. If you can do thirty or more reps, add a tenpound plate your next workout. Don’t neglect this exercise. It’s been called the "upper body squat" and will have some very positive effects on your triceps, chest, shoulders, and serratus.

4. Close Grip Chin — Hands should be six to twelve inches apart with your palms facing you. Do as many reps as possible. If you can’t make fifteen reps on your first set, rest sixty seconds and do another set. If you get nine reps the first set and six the second — that’s your target, fifteen reps. Try to add at least one rep each workout shooting for thirty. If you ever get to thirty reps on your first set, add a ten-pound plate.

5. Ab work is optional, you could do a couple sets of crunches or a couple sets on the ab machine.

6. Calf work is also optional; I recommend three sets of twenty reps on the standing calf raise.

I found there are five keys to the success of this program.

1. The breathing squat — work hard, don’t quit until you reach twenty, and add weight every single workout.

2. On the exercises which you do just two sets — treat these like a “heavy duty” workout. That first set needs to be all-out, but if you reach the target rep number, and are feeling lazy that day, it’s OK to stop. You’ve reached your goal for that exercise, that’s your sign to add weight next workout. The second set should also be very difficult. It is probably unnecessary, but I do it in case I slacked even a little on the first set.

3. Add very small weight increments consistently throughout the entire program. If you make your target reps on a particular set, no matter how hard it is, add a small amount of weight to your work sets the next time.

4. Have a "one-set" mentality. Don’t think in terms of I have four sets of ten to do so I’ll hold back a little on the first set. The first set is the one that counts. The second set where indicated is just in case you left a couple of muscle fibers unscathed on the first set.

5. Recovery is important. Don’t add a bunch of exercises or sets.

*TIP: Just a note on the squats. Don't kill yourself the first few squat sessions. Pick a weight where you know you can complete 20 reps with. With every ensuing workout, make the 20 reps a little bit more challenging. But don't turn it into a near-death experience. LOL

Not saying you should switch everything around to this (although I think it's a great routine!). His write-up does give some good insight into performing breathing squats, though. :)

No, not rounding the back. I am talking about what I can support on my shoulders without causing serious compression (since I don't have the best trap development yet).

Missed this point.

Your back supports the load, i really can't see this has a problem. I could easily unrack %125 of my 1RM.

Throwing this out - why don't you try a different set/rep scheme for the back squat? IE if you where doing 10's start doing 6's for awhile.

If I remember correctly, Mastover does a workout that consists of 10x20x225 about once a year to test himself.

And here's his 20 rep squat program, for posterity :):



Not saying you should switch everything around to this (although I think it's a great routine!). His write-up does give some good insight into performing breathing squats, though. :)

Great post! Man, I kind of want to try that routine after a month or two...need to jot it down somewhere.

And yes, I think I will stick with the breathing squat set + a set of pullovers after.

Missed this point.

Your back supports the load, i really can't see this has a problem. I could easily unrack %125 of my 1RM.

Throwing this out - why don't you try a different set/rep scheme for the back squat? IE if you where doing 10's start doing 6's for awhile.

I could. But I have trouble translating that in my mind in terms of "intensity". I am doing 5-7 reps right now, and doing 10 means dropping the weight, so there is a risk of plateau..

Plus, I just kind of want to try breathing squats, have for a while in fact :lol::
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=679617&postcount=18

I'm currently working out 4 times a week, and my squat is starting to plateau due to the fact my back/shoulders just can't go as heavy as my legs. So I am thinking of mixing it up with breathing squats for a few weeks on my leg day (substituting my quad-dom leg day with 4 sets x 20 breathing squats)

The question I have is will it be feasible to continue the rest of my routine as normal, or will I require additional rest? Obviously, every person is different, but I am curious what the general experience is.

If you do breathing squats, or any other big time workout, you are best making sure you get full sleep that night, and rest the next day.

After that? Whatever the traffic will bear.

I never done breathing squats but if i remember correctly your suppose to use about your 10RM and after 10 reps your to basically use rest/pause techniques without racking the bar. If that's the case 4 sets would be very improbable, if possible at all.

I agree. Once you can do 4x20 in a workout you are definitely well below your 10RM.

Like to add i really can't see 4x20 representing at least %60 of your 1RM so in my opinion your much better served using a different set/rep scheme for muscle growth.

It's not out of the question to do 4x20 with 60% of your 1RM. I used to do lots of long sets at 225# when my 1RM was probably below or near 400# (I never used to have good chances to max out the squat so I am estimating). If you do a lot of endurance work, you can get long sets in that 60% of 1RM range. Your 10RM though, will be much heavier, and so multiple sets of 20 of those will probably be pretty nasty.

And long sets at 60% - if you do those, typically when you get near 40 reps - are tough as well. The heart rate is usually maxed out well before then so you are dealing with hypoxia all the way after that. Excellent cardiovascular conditioning.

I used to do lots of long sets at 225#

You don't do them anymore?

You don't do them anymore?

I probably will again soon, but every now and again I get into heavy or endurance deadlifting. I keep coming up with something else to do for the next workout. I still think long squat sets are a great idea.

I was going to do one of those 10x20 deals over at mastover's gym but nobody set a date for that yet.

I was going to do one of those 10x20 deals over at mastover's gym but nobody set a date for that yet.

Damn, thats hardcore. :eek:

Ok, thanks everyone, I will stick to 1 set of breathing squats. Then take the next day off, and lift normally after that if I feel okay.

Know what? If you can do two sets, try.

Just make sure you get enough rest, and you're able to recover fully.

Its impossible to give standard advice to everyone, because we're all so different.

I've done two sets breathing squats before. Sure, you literally fall over and die afterwards, but it worked for me during the time I did them.

Damn, thats hardcore. :eek:

Well when I did 5x20x225#, 4x25x225# at my gym it was more hardcore than I thought it was going to be, but only in the last set or two. Keep in mind that 225# was well below my 10RM, it was more like the 60% of 1RM deal.

I did them as a teenager at 135 lbs. I used a 140 lb barbell with a 25 lb dumbbell in this routine. I did it 3 days a week.

20 reps of squats taking deep breaths after each rep.
followed immediately by
15 reps of across bench DB pullover done slowly.

60 sec rest (I have always done this)

Repeat squats and pullovers for final set.

They really expanded my chest. They were used to expand rib cage, not much good for that over say19-21 years of age. :bb:

Haha, the first time I tried these I underestimated how much load I had put on my body and I didn't eat well that night and the day after and I felt HORRIBLE I had a headache and I was so weak... I realized that I didn't eat enough... A couple glasses of milk with some eggs and flax bread and some peanut butter and I started to feel better as the food was digesting later. So if you're going to do this make sure you lift enough weight those last reps need to be a STRUGGLE... also make sure you're eat plenty of good food.

Well tried them today and as I wrote in my journal I was not too happy with my performance (or lack thereof). The biggest issue was my shoulders/upper back supporting the weight. The breathing between reps is more exhausting than the actual reps it seems

Well tried them today and as I wrote in my journal I was not too happy with my performance (or lack thereof). The biggest issue was my shoulders/upper back supporting the weight. The breathing between reps is more exhausting than the actual reps it seems

Probably why they're called 'breathing' squats. :neener:

Probably why they're called 'breathing' squats. :neener:

funny...not


:lol::lol:

jk

I had issues yet again getting to 20 reps. It is not my heart, lungs, or legs that is failing me. I just cannot support the bar. My arms went completely numb around rep 11-12 and by rep 15 today I felt like I could not control the bar and had to rerack.

Is this normal? Do I just fight through until I drop the bar? Or am I positioning the bar incorrectly on my traps?

I know it is difficult to say without a picture, so I will try to get a video on Monday when I do my next workout and post it.

I had issues yet again getting to 20 reps. It is not my heart, lungs, or legs that is failing me. I just cannot support the bar. My arms went completely numb around rep 11-12 and by rep 15 today I felt like I could not control the bar and had to rerack.

Is this normal? Do I just fight through until I drop the bar? Or am I positioning the bar incorrectly on my traps?

I know it is difficult to say without a picture, so I will try to get a video on Monday when I do my next workout and post it.

I had that problem for a while when I started. Eventually, you want to grow big enough traps to deal with that.

In the meantime, you can wrap a towel around the bar, etc.

I had issues yet again getting to 20 reps. It is not my heart, lungs, or legs that is failing me. I just cannot support the bar. My arms went completely numb around rep 11-12 and by rep 15 today I felt like I could not control the bar and had to rerack.

Is this normal? Do I just fight through until I drop the bar? Or am I positioning the bar incorrectly on my traps?

I know it is difficult to say without a picture, so I will try to get a video on Monday when I do my next workout and post it.

Lower the weight a bit for a while? I had to do that for a couple months until I could do the 20x230#.

I had that problem for a while when I started. Eventually, you want to grow big enough traps to deal with that.

In the meantime, you can wrap a towel around the bar, etc.

Wrap a towel...that might actually work!

What do you think of those squat wrap thingies?

Lower the weight a bit for a while? I had to do that for a couple months until I could do the 20x230#.

I could but the issue is the nerves in my neck getting compressed by the bar, not an issue of strength.

Wrap a towel...that might actually work!

What do you think of those squat wrap thingies?


Even better. They are a bit firmer.


Long term goal is to grow enough of a trap "shelf" that you don't need it, but you have to start somewhere.

I used to use bar pads for good mornings, but never liked the feel on squats. I feel too much loss of control of the bar.

Even better. They are a bit firmer.


Long term goal is to grow enough of a trap "shelf" that you don't need it, but you have to start somewhere.

I used to use bar pads for good mornings, but never liked the feel on squats. I feel too much loss of control of the bar.

Yeah I have avoided using them since I started but I may have to until my traps catch up.

I appreciate the advice, I will still try to get video of my next session which will be more successful.

Wrap a towel...that might actually work!

What do you think of those squat wrap thingies?

They're fine. So are manta rays. Anything that spreads the weight a little until you get your traps happening.

And for the traps happening thing, you have your deadlift and accessory work.